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Jul 31
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Gary Zucker's avatar

Costs nothing to go to a good audio shop and test some setups to see! (hear?)

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John Marks's avatar

I think those are good choices for you, assuming that you mean a Luxman solid-state integrated amplifier with tone controls. The LaScalas (which I have not heard in many years) received a great review in Stereophile last year. Klipsch offers their own distinctive listening experience, characterized by dynamic impact. So, I do not think that that is a waste of money.

best of luck, john

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Aug 2
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John Marks's avatar

Hi, I don't know if Luxman's tube gear has tone controls.

My thought being that, as your hearing ages, tone controls might make it easier to cut a little bass and boost a little treble, in the interest of comprehensibility, or intelligibility.

In any event, my experience with Luxman gear is that the sound is usually what you would call "listentable" as distinct from "analytical." So, I don't recall any night and day difference in sonic character between the one Luxman tube power amp I reviewed, and their solid-state integrateds. Music Direct sells Luxman by mail order, and I assume that their usual money-back guarantee applies.

While I am at it, a few of these acoustical diffusor panels should work wonders:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PSSA22--partscience-spacearray-2-pack

The team I was on used an identical product from a different vendor, and you can see the emplacements in this article about the $1 million sound room.

https://futureaudiophile.com/university-of-the-south-brings-a-million-dollar-audiophile-experience-to-its-students-and-you-too/

AMB,

john

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Wyatt LCB's avatar

Ooohhhhh these look nice. My ebay 2007 Klipsch ProMedia did the ProMedia thing and burnt the right channel out the first night I got them, the Vera's would make an excellent replacement!

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Speed's avatar

looks a thousand times better than anything ive seen on the shelf of any big box store but that might be a low bar

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Steve Ward's avatar

Wondering how these compare to my 1978 vintage Ohm bookshelf speakers?

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John Marks's avatar

I always felt that Ohm was a "True Believer" company that delivered good value for money.

That said, the weight of the woofer's voice coil has been weighing on the surround that connects the woofer cone to the basket rim for... 46 years?

Please enter, so you have a chance of winning. And if you do not win, I am sure that Vera-Fi will give you no trouble in honoring their Money-Back-Guarantee.

And, if you have not yet done so, please scoot over to Tracking Angle and read my write-up.

amb,

john

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Ronnie Schreiber's avatar

I still have my Smaller Advents but I replaced their disintegrated surrounds about 25 years ago. My ex gave them back to me when she bought some new speakers. I should compare them to the Dayton Audio monitors in the system in my grow room that Steve Guttenberg recommended.

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Steve Ward's avatar

And I for one would definitely blink at $325k speakers. And $32k speakers. And probably $3k speakers. Sheesh.

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John Marks's avatar

Well, I worked on the design and build of a $1 million playback room... really.

And it was NOT mere self-indulgence.

It transformed space in a University library into a dedicated listening room, so that when a Music History lecturer was illustrating a point, it would sound real. As in, that system can pressurize the room, as though an entire orchestra was playing.

Our community is mourning the loss of the visionary who made it happen.

https://trackingangle.com/features/marking-the-passing-of-an-exceptional-man-thomas-andrew-macnab-tam-carlson-1941-2024

Video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRezeGgg4pQ

amb,

john

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Ronnie Schreiber's avatar

At Alex Roy's audio salon in Manhattan, I listened to a Focal system that was about $20K a pair, powered by what I believe was McIntosh's top line electronics. The source was a lossless stream. I picked Dvorak's New World by the Detroit Symphony under Paul Paray, a Mercury Living Presence recording that I've listened to perhaps hundreds of times (I played it on my cd player while bike riding a lot), and Peaches en Regalia on Zappa's Hot Rats, perhaps my favorite song (it's the ring tone on my phone - my son played it for his kids and they said, "That's Zayde's phone!"). To say the audio system was revelatory is an understatement. Of course I can also enjoy a cheap system. Sounds are better than no sounds.

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John Marks's avatar

Funny...

"Peaches in Regalia" is one of my favorite songs.

john

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Ronnie Schreiber's avatar

The other day, I asked a woman that I've been texting what kinds of music she liked.

"Donna Summers, BeeGees, Disco, Joni Mitchell, Simon & Garfunkel."

I avoided the topic of disco and said that Playing Real Good For Free is one of my favorite songs and the I think Paul Simon is a songwriter of the first rank.

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John Marks's avatar

Michael Franks is a songwriter of consequence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4meqmwaHhU

A big overlap in session musicians, with Court & Spark.

john

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Drunkonunleaded's avatar

Man, I used to drool over that McIntosh setup he had.

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Mozzie's avatar

I recently came across this guitar cover of the opening scene in Desperado and have been mightily impressed: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Azzc5odj9V4

hard to believe he only has ten fingers

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John Marks's avatar

The thumb fretting is mind-boggling.

But I am just a violinist.

BTW, do you know why "Viola Jokes" are so brief?

So violinists can remember them.

john

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Mozzie's avatar

That reminds me of the joke my HS band conductor would tell: "Hi, I'm a trumpet player. I'm better than you."

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Ronnie Schreiber's avatar

Guitarists tell bass player and drummer jokes.

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-Nate's avatar

Let's not ignore the Banjo jokes, they may feel left out.....

-Nate

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Hex168's avatar

Q: If you throw a banjo and an accordion out of a window, which one hits the ground first?

A: Who cares?

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-Nate's avatar

Very similar to what's the difference between a Banjo and a Trampoline ? .

A. : not everyone likes to jump on a Trampoline .

As it turns , I'm one of those oddballs who likes Banjo and Accordion music when played correctly and well .

-Nate

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Rick T.'s avatar

Ho. Ly. Cow.

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Dave Lemieux's avatar

Speaker development has moved quickly to satisfy objectivists like myself thanks to utilization of Klippel NFS. It’s gotta measure as flat as possible (Harman curve), or I’m not interested. What’s nice about manufacturers taking measurements seriously is you don’t need to spend 5 figures plus to have a great listening experience.

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John Marks's avatar

Well, I have corresponded with Klippel Mothership (on their KCS system), and here's the rub.

Setting up a Klippel NFS requires a 2-car garage with a 13-foot roof clearance, and more than $100,000.

Vera-Fi was willing to let go of two pairs to make this possible.

But the Scout is OBVIOUSLY a "Loss Leader." Because Vera-Fi's sister company sells a $1000/pr. loudspeaker that is hardly larger. Just, better parts. Please refer to my Tracking Angle report.

I started making tape recordings in 1968, and professionally since 1982. My read on the current marketplace is that, to get a pair of loudspeakers that can do full justice to Mahler symphonies in average-sized rooms, the price of entry is $15,000.

But, bargain hunters should check these out:

https://trackingangle.com/equipment/sb-acoustics-x-solen-sasandu-tx-loudspeaker

john

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Dave Lemieux's avatar

I appreciate your review and certainly appreciate the value these speakers bring to the marketplace. As far as room filling sound, yup, $15k is right where a pair of Revel F338s sit and would be my go to at that price point. Having said that, we start hitting diminishing returns and you can get great speakers developed using measurements for much less. Ascend Acoustics is an example.

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John Marks's avatar

I have always respected Revel.

If you have not done so, please look at:

https://trackingangle.com/equipment/sb-acoustics-x-solen-sasandu-tx-loudspeaker

because the discussion of TPCD drivers shows that this a whole new day.

AFAIK, Revel is not using TPCD drivers.

Game ender.

john

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Dave Lemieux's avatar

Very interesting drivers. Headed down the rabbit hole….

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Hex168's avatar

Thanks, John. Much appreciated. A trip up to Montreal to hear those SBs you recommended may be in order. A question for you, if I may:

I firmly believe in the correctness and applicability of objective speaker testing, Klippel NFS, and the gospel as preached by Toole/Olive/Geddes in various versions. Within limits.

For example, all of the (public) research on preference is limited to standard box speakers, with the exception of a single, rather poor Martin-Logan. I find that (sighted, anyway, and I find it hard to believe that in a blind test I could not tell the difference and have a preference) I prefer the presentation of large dipole line arrays and planars. In the old days, I really liked the Apogee line from the Duetta up. Recently I heard the Diptyques and was similarly impressed.

Do you have any advice on speakers outside the box, so to speak? Have you heard any recent Eminent Technologies speakers, for example?

https://www.eminent-tech.com/LFT8.html

Also the LFT8c cardioid woofer update to the above.

There are two other designs that look interesting to me. One is a floor-to-ceiling line array of full-ranges with sophisticated digital correction. Impossible to hear in advance, DIY only (apologies for the hideously long DIYAudio thread):

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-making-of-the-two-towers-a-25-driver-full-range-line-array.242171/

The other is the JBL M2, because dynamics are always fun. Never had an opportunity to hear those, either.

Apologies for taking your time, but once I retire I will be taking on a major audio project of some sort and your advice would be appreciated, if not immediately acted upon!

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John Marks's avatar

I have not heard Eminent Tech in a long time. Here's what I know about non-box loudspeakers (while I stand on one foot):

1) Magneplanar has its passionate fans. The speakers are made in the US, and their entry-level speaker is very affordable.

2) QUAD was the first to commercialize electrostatics. Their smaller current offering is $14,000 the pair. https://www.kemela.com/store/Quad-Electrostatic-Loudspeakers.html?13

3) Sound Lab also has its passionate fans. https://www.soundlabspeakers.com/ It looks like you will have to call Sound Lab or a dealer to get pricing.

Good luck!

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Hex168's avatar

I think it costs about $1500 to get a speaker measured on an NFS. I think Warkwyn, for one, does it. It gets expensive to iterate a design, though.

Both Erinsaudiocorner and Audio Science Review will do it for free if they can publish the results; both have a backlog.

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John Marks's avatar

I think it's more like $2500, but yes, one need not buy his or her own Nearfield Scanner.

For, Oh, about 40 years, my Mantra has been: "Every loudspeaker design is the end result of a cascade of compromises, even if the only thing you end up compromising on is affordability." I should call that "Marks's Iron Law." tee hee

john

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Ronnie Schreiber's avatar

John, which speaker maker had the publicity shot with a naked lady sitting inside a giant speaker cabinet? Was it Klipsch?

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John Marks's avatar

Before my time, perhaps.

I remember when Mark Levinson had his gf of the moment stand naked, facing away, beside whatever loudspeaker he was flacking, so we could admire her sacral dimples.

Mark was (briefly) married to one of the "Sex and the City" actresses.

To me, that was bizarre, in that, at one event, I had been standing at right angles to Mark, and I saw that he had the largest tufts of ear hair I had ever seen, and... you can imagine where my mind went:

THIS is the guy we are letting establish benchmarks for audio???

john

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Klink's avatar

It always did seem that Mark Levinson got more good ass than a toilet seat. He even published a volume on fidelity enhancing care and maintenance.

https://www.grandcentralpublishing.com/titles/kim-cattrall/satisfaction/9780446548922/

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John Marks's avatar

The best backstabbing takedown I ever heard in college was:

"P.J. can go out with any woman he wants to... ONCE."

I am told that having masses of black hair emerging from your ear canals is a sign of virility in Eastern Europe.

Which makes me think of my Ancestral Village's traditional Seed-Planting Dance:

You put your right foot in...

You put your right foot in...

You put your right foot in...

You put your right foot in...

You put your right foot in...

You put your right foot in...

You put your right foot in...

(Narrator: "Entire Village is Retarded, because of Lead in Drinking-Water Supply!")

Pax, Lux, et Veritas,

john

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Colin's avatar

That article was about 99% over my head, and yet enjoyable.

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John Marks's avatar

Thanks.

If you have any questions, I am here to help.

john

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Colin's avatar

Well thank you!

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Terry Murray's avatar

Thanks for the Qobuz playlists in the review comments. I’ll have a listen tomorrow.

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Drunkonunleaded's avatar

Thanks for posting this. There is so much marketing and countless boutique brands in audio that I get overwhelmed every time I try to do some research. Paired with a decent receiver and the accompanying sub, how would these work as a dual-use audio and home theater setup?

I have a mint set of Infinity Kappa 8s with a matching sub and center channel that my dad bought in the 80s. Sadly, I have no room for it upstairs. My goal was to set up a listening area in the basement, but I frankly don't have the knowledge to even know what type of amp I should be looking at.

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John Marks's avatar

Vera-Fi sells small Bluetooth amps that are designed to be Velcro'ed to the rear panel of conventional loudspeakers. So, checking those out would be a place to start. As far as an amp for the Kappa 8s, what is your comfort zone concerning price?

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Drunkonunleaded's avatar

I saw that after the fact. In theory, I should be able to connect my TV to that amp and call it a day. Very slick.

No idea on pricing. For years, my dad powered it with a Denon AVC-2000 that was purchased around the same time. Can I put together something passible to drive these for $1500-2000? I'd need some sort of phono pre-amp and a DAC for streaming. The basement room I'll be using is roughly 20x30, so it's not very large.

The Denon I planned to use as my garage stereo to power some smaller Technics SB-CR55s that I thrifted. It'd also allow me to use "Zone B" for the Yamaha outdoor speakers mounted on the soffit over my patio, which conveniently shares a wall with my garage.

Having done some reading, my concern was that the Infinitys are known to be "amp killers" and I didn't want to damage the receiver. I could always be overthinking it.

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John Marks's avatar

Hi, I have an email account with the biggest email company, my handle is "Johnnywehardly," feel free to gee-mail me.

(1) As far as "Connecting" your TV to the Vera-Fi Vera-Link, AFAIK that amp module is Bluetooth only, with no wired inputs.

(2) As far as an integrated amp that meets your needs and budget, I have to rely upon trusted recommendations, because I usually deal with more expensive gear--the Vera-Fi Scout is the exception that proves that rule.

So, based on this review in Future Audiophile, the NAD all-in one (with the optional BT card) seems a good match: https://futureaudiophile.com/nad-c-3050-integrated-le-amplifier-reviewed/

If you click on the AMPLIFIERS link in the header, you can see that Future Audiophile has been Covering the Waterfront as far as amplification goes.

Also, when you get to the Crutchfield product page, they auto-recommend other similar products.

As far as the Infinitys being "amp killers," do your speakers have selectable nominal impedances? If so, go for the higher or larger option, such as 4 Ohms rather than 2 Ohms.

Best of luck,

john

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Gary Zucker's avatar

Oh man, these will pair so nicely with my D70s MQA DAC with twin AKM 4497’s. Will need to splurge on an amp if I win. pray for me

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-Nate's avatar

Okay ;

aren't we supposed to know how many ohms there are before deciding we can even use them ? .

Nevertheless, I have entered your contest and I thank you Sir .

-Nate

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John Marks's avatar

The manufacturer states that the Nominal Impedance is 8 Ohms.

john

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-Nate's avatar

THANK YOU John ! .

I know many think it's fine to run 4 or 6 ohm speakers on an 8 ohm rated output to get "more sound" but it's bad practice and can even damage your amplifier .

-Nate

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Ian Harrison (compaq deskpro)'s avatar

I'm using Paradigm Mini Monitor V.4's with a 6.5 inch driver. They cost me $140 from the local pawnshop. Every last part in them was made in Canada. I don't like subwoofers, I'm listening through an A-S301 and a Scarlett Solo. Based on your review, I don't think I'm going to like them. Your review seemed to be making excuses for the speaker's shortcomings, while using far higher end equipment than what I have to drive them. I don't think I would benefit from these speakers.

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John Marks's avatar

Well, just because you have a Perception, that does not mean it is Reality.

It seems you have an excess of Negativity, so you need to Project it. That's my Perception.

I don't make excuses for products. What I do is, I try to give my readers the information they need to decide whether to investigate further.

There was a commenter whose post was eaten by Substack (or he changed his mind and deleted it). He wanted to know if the Vera-Fi Scouts could handle classic live rock albums played at a barbecue. My response was that they would be out of their depth. I urged him to check out the outdoor wireless party speakers from Soundboks. https://soundboks.com/products/speakers/soundboks-gen-2

Electric bass Low E, at (appx.) 41Hz, has a wavelength of (appx.) 27 feet. The Scout's woofer is 5.25 inches. Not a marriage made in Heaven.

In my Tracking Angle review, I took pains to point out that, as impressive as the Scouts are, they are cost-compromised. The proof of that pudding being that Vera-Fi's sister company (same ownership and designer) sells for $1000/pr. a loudspeaker with a nearly identical form factor and driver compliment.

ciao,

john

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Peter (AoLetsGo)'s avatar

This will probably sound like a stupid question, but “hear” it goes.

I love listening to all kinds of music all the time but I don’t seem to have the ear that you guys have for good sound systems. Obviously I can recognize really bad sound but after that it all sounds about the same even though the prices are different.

So the question is, can you train your ears to appreciate all these nuances you guys go on about?

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Q..'s avatar

Was there ever a winner?

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