I’m late to the party as usual, but I want to get it in front of everyone: If you don’t like Google (and I don’t), use DuckDuckGo. It’s completely anonymous and forgetful.
I've found an interesting phenomenon on Youtube, concerning Pro Ukraine "News" channels.
5 channels that up to 4-6 months ago were Turkish hobby channels. Tons of videos. Can't remember all the hobbys, but 1 was the game of minecraft, another knitting and crocheting, and another making crafts with ribbons. Hundreds and hundreds of videos. Then bat shit crazy pro Ukranian ones after 2-3 months of nothing.
307,000 subscribers. This and the others have the donation icon, Heart and Dollar sign. Either they (somebody) made sleeper channels a couple of years of ago and built up gravitas with the subscriber count, or these clowns are hijacking zombie channels.
After seeing all the screenshots it seemed he got a little jealous and possessive and she wasn't having it. Marriage probably over. Red Bull employment done.
Toto Wolff hooked up with Susie Stoddart when they were at Williams. The issue of being married aside, I don't see much difference in the power dynamic.
F1TV runs out for me this summer. I may bow out. I find this stuff tedious. You answered a comment of mine yesterday with a "Piranha Club". Very bright, very driven, very wealthy assholes is only entertaining and interesting for a while. Most of these tools have an emotional age of a preschooler.
The best of them are hyper passive/aggressive. And it goes downhill from there.
If anything, Steiner seemed the most normal of the bunch. Maybe that's why he's doing TV commentary now.
The "mystique" of F1 to a large degree was based on danger and sophistication at the same time. For the most part we either read about after the fact or only had access to watching just the race. Sometimes having the public know too much, is not a good thing.
I remember reading about F1 races in the 70s via R+T with stories by Rob Walker. Probably at least 2 months after a race took place.
I know this crap has always gone on, I'm not stupid. But watching everyone acting like Robert Shaw playing Quint from Jaws gets old.
I have a well worn copy of The Piranha Club. It's been awhile since I've read it but I don't remember anyone getting sacked for hurting the feelings of a company slut.
What a boring nothing burger. I sure Ginger Spice will be mad for a bit, and it's a little weird. I guess if he sent me a picture of his nipple I would complain too...
I feel bad for Geri. If he can't generate hotter sexts than that she should be flirting elsewhere.
"Adding in the mere 597 motorcycles LiveWire sold in 2022 and the 461 sold in 2021, the LiveWire group had only sold 1,718 electric motorcycles in three full years. While LiveWire electric motorcycle sales did increase year over year, selling 63 motorcycles more than in the previous year is nothing to crow about."
Zero has been cutting prices, and even with massive Biden Bucks thrown in the sales, from the few numbers I can try and dig up for 2023, didn't look good.
Much like with EV cars, there seemed to be a spike in interest during Covid, and then a cool-off as reality set in.
Nobody is buying this junk except for a few rich guys for the novelty factor.
I saw headlines about the Kawasaki hybrid models, but haven't followed up. I think they were 200 to 300 ccs? If they accelerate like a 500 twin but return mileage like my 1977 Yamaha QT50, will the market increase?
Probably shoulda seen that coming. Multiple reasons:
-The marketing is shit. I could be convinced to ride an electro-weenie bike with the right performance, but I don't even know where to look for trustworthy info on such a thing.
Say I wanted to look into the Sur-Ron and comparable "low middleweight" e-bikes. Where would I go?
-The product is sometimes shit. (case by case)
-The product is chinese, or otherwise international (explains Item 1 above)
To Devil's Advocate a bit: putting *high instantaneous torque* in a package that can be made *relatively lightweight* is a recipe for grins. (Thinking of the Sur-Ron here but there are others)
If I can find a way to get my hands on a Sur-Ron I will review it. (if anyone here has one to lend me for a few days, I will travel to you)
Somehow the skateboard makes it work despite postage stamp traction patch. Its accelerative enough that most people I have try it get thrown off the back the first time.
I'm guessing the Sur-Ron is similar, particularly with aftermarket non-MTB tires fitted.
Wish I could remember the handle of the ACF-er that has one
I think the real breakthrough is KTM's TPI fuel injected two strokes. Came out in 2018, I would have thought it could bring about a second coming of 2 stroke dirtbikes. Awesome power in a lightweight bike, now with fewer emissions concerns and better fuel economy. But none of the Japanese seem to be willing to re-invest in two stroke R&D, or paying KTM royalties to use their TPI system.
Yes and they went to TBI for 2024. From what I’ve gathered, TBI isn’t exactly flushed out yet. IIRC, TM is still using TPI. In fact, I believe they dropped carbs altogether for 2024.
I fell asleep (literally) in the Audi “VIP” lounge during the race. Apparently the tickets a friend of mine and I enjoyed were $2,000+ a head. I would not have paid $20 for them. He had a fat Audi dealer consulting contract at the time, hence the tickets.
Was that (or is) on the water front? Might have only been one of a handful I've wasted my time on, on TV.
Reminded me how the lame TV shows in the 60s portrayed racing. Stick a bunch of hay bales out and you have a track. Which might have been fine 50+ years ago, but not today.
I did enjoy last year's Portland race. A real track. But, FE insists that real tracks are not where they want to be.
Red Hook, yeah. It’s waterfront, but far from glamorous.
We had dinner that night at Keen’s then smoked cigars on the terrace at Classic Car Club (where my buddy is a member). I upgraded myself to a PALATIAL suite at the Palace for the princely sum of $25. I skipped the sunday race in favor of working out of our NYC office - it was *that* boring.
They keep trying with electric rallicross. Part of the attraction is the 600hp turbo cars with anti-lag. Otherwise it sounds like a bunch of 1:1 electric radio controlled vehicles.
Yesterday: The FIA has announced that modified and cost-effective versions of the current Rally1 machines without hybrid power will form the World Rally Championship’s top class from next year.
They've determined that hybrids are a waste of time considering what all the extras needed actually do for a car.
Hurrah! The WRC was so stupid to go away from the 2019 Rally1’s that were a modern, safer incarnation of the dear, departed Group Bs to the stupid hybrids. With the hybrids, the WRC had 2.5 works teams.
One of my profs thinks the resistance to EVs is bias, as if the lights, sounds, and actions if ICE cars are somehow irrelevant and that goes doubly so for racing.
ah but you see i am biased because i like getting 450km to a tank and can refill in 4 minutes
also I guess not being able to see the flicker (I hate the colour temperature of white streetlights especially) makes me a smoothbrain. Not sure if that's a meme or not, I've not seen the flicker unless its malfunctioning. What were you thinking of in particular, headlights?
Iirc when I looked it up a zero has 93 miles of range at 70mph. And it’s not like you’d ride the full 93 then look for a gas station you’d be getting nervous after about 70 miles I figure like you would with less than a gallon of reserve on a normal gas bike. I just can’t think how I’d use a bike like that. $15k to only be able to use it as a commuter? Bizarre.
How long will it take until everyone realizes that the best vehicles ever made were a 2002 GMC Sierra and the 2015 Chevrolet Camaro 6-speed manual 1SS 1LE? They don't shut down at stop signs, they don't shut down half their cylinders, they do not have back-up cameras or the annoying drivers aids that is basically the ex-wife package. For me going forward I am on the lookout for a well cared for 5th Gen or 6th Gen Corvette and staying away from anything new cause that crap breaks and takes all the fun out of driving.
Your comment is very reflective of a shift I'm seeing in many, many thoughtful people... and that's towards preservation and enjoyment rather than getting the next car.
If it wasn't for the fact that an SUV would be more practical for my family day to say, I'd keep my 2018 Mazda 6 Grand Touring Reserve until the wheels fall off. I currently have less than 40K miles on it. Only thing I'd wish it have is wireless AA.
A few years ago, two guys I know personally / IRL (to some extent at least) were going back and forth on Rennlist. One of them is a decorated former MLB pitcher who has done some racing. He now owns several car dealerships in Fresno. He is also ferociously intelligent. The other guy is a trustafarian par excellence. He is my age, went to the same Ivy League school as Matt Farah, and has never even thought about working. He’s too busy shopping every day, driving his 918 or CGT or Singer or etc.
The trustafarian whined that he was SO SAD he only had the “regular” Singer Classic and not the super limited Singer DLS. The ex-MLB player reminded him to be content with what he had, given it’s hard to drive 10 supercars when all you do is shop and dine out.
Let’s cut the shit and get to the quick. Car prices are sooo seriously fucked up they make housing prices seem sane!
My personal situation in the Twin Cities (MN) speaks to this insane reality.
We have a household income around 250k. House payment is less than 10% of that. We have 4 vehicles that range from 9-12 years old. I considered buying 2 new vehicles this year. Until I realized that on top of the insanely expensive prices I would have to basically pay the equivalent of 10% transaction price in sales tax and registration!
Sorry for the language but no fucking way! This household will be driving used iron for the foreseeable future!
I here this alot but to play devil's advocate but if I look at MSRP of my 2010 Mazda 6 in 2010 and compare it to a a 2024 similarly equipped, the 2024 is slightly cheaper. It also comes with more HP and loads more tech features.
Unlike home prices, cars have followed inflation pretty closely. Trucks on the other hand have been a good bit higher than inflation, but that's mostly due to demand. Can't blame ford or GM many joes want to drive a truck.
Well said, my 2018 Silverado does NOT have auto stop start and will be my last as I hate that feature on the new vehicles. In 1974 the govt mandated that the starter be disabled if you tried to start the car with out buckling your seat belt, the outrage was so loud Congress over road the bureaucracy and the feature was dropped mid year. The public needs to rise up again to stop the incorporation of some of this aggravating technology into the cars.
Here at the station wagon factory they published new lease rates for employees. I can get an i4 for the same price as an entry level 330. Other bev models as well. Something says that the things don’t sell well. What do I know. Still making 1500 wagons a day.
Having a race on Saturday, combined with a 7 day work week most of winter + a 4 day school week for some reason has annihilated my sense of time.
I’m late to the party as usual, but I want to get it in front of everyone: If you don’t like Google (and I don’t), use DuckDuckGo. It’s completely anonymous and forgetful.
Duck Duck Go is censoring too. The CEO has admitted to it. I think they do some data tracking, but not as significant as google.
Seconded.
I've found an interesting phenomenon on Youtube, concerning Pro Ukraine "News" channels.
5 channels that up to 4-6 months ago were Turkish hobby channels. Tons of videos. Can't remember all the hobbys, but 1 was the game of minecraft, another knitting and crocheting, and another making crafts with ribbons. Hundreds and hundreds of videos. Then bat shit crazy pro Ukranian ones after 2-3 months of nothing.
This one doesn't look like it was Turkish though https://www.youtube.com/@FrontlineReports41/videos
8 new videos that are bat shit crazy in 3 days.
755 BAKING VIDEOS. The most current 9 months ago.
307,000 subscribers. This and the others have the donation icon, Heart and Dollar sign. Either they (somebody) made sleeper channels a couple of years of ago and built up gravitas with the subscriber count, or these clowns are hijacking zombie channels.
Sounds like somebody's having a Turkish.
see i understand what that means now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFxOqFRgD8o
Like shooting fish in a barrel. Don't know if this is one of the Turkish ones I've found before.
https://www.youtube.com/@memoriesatthefront/videos
Look at videos available from them.
So the texts and pictures were leaked...
I honestly don't care if he was sending pictures of his horn to every girl at red bull and offering a promotion to the first one that hopped on it.
I don't love the anonymous allegations, and news stories of leaked evidence, but no details on the accusations or what the evidence is.
He seems kind of needy in those texts. I have difficulty believing they're real.
I’d say pathetic, not just needy. I’m not exactly surprised.
After seeing all the screenshots it seemed he got a little jealous and possessive and she wasn't having it. Marriage probably over. Red Bull employment done.
I wonder.
Toto Wolff hooked up with Susie Stoddart when they were at Williams. The issue of being married aside, I don't see much difference in the power dynamic.
And people say F1 isn’t interesting!!!
F1TV runs out for me this summer. I may bow out. I find this stuff tedious. You answered a comment of mine yesterday with a "Piranha Club". Very bright, very driven, very wealthy assholes is only entertaining and interesting for a while. Most of these tools have an emotional age of a preschooler.
The best of them are hyper passive/aggressive. And it goes downhill from there.
If anything, Steiner seemed the most normal of the bunch. Maybe that's why he's doing TV commentary now.
The "mystique" of F1 to a large degree was based on danger and sophistication at the same time. For the most part we either read about after the fact or only had access to watching just the race. Sometimes having the public know too much, is not a good thing.
I remember reading about F1 races in the 70s via R+T with stories by Rob Walker. Probably at least 2 months after a race took place.
I know this crap has always gone on, I'm not stupid. But watching everyone acting like Robert Shaw playing Quint from Jaws gets old.
We disagree, evidently.
There is virtually no interest in the machinations in any other motorsport paddock - I wonder why? Because there are no stakes.
I have a well worn copy of The Piranha Club. It's been awhile since I've read it but I don't remember anyone getting sacked for hurting the feelings of a company slut.
Company sluts all run to HR now, who treats them as MVPs.
Most voluminous pussycats
This is better than the racing, though...
Not exactly Nazi S&M though, is it.
Was that the Wolff thing? i missed that one
Max Mosley larping his Dad who was Adolf's boy in London.
Not YET, at least.
Personally I'm hoping Susie Wolff is behind it all but maybe he just really is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
The messages are out in the open now.
What a boring nothing burger. I sure Ginger Spice will be mad for a bit, and it's a little weird. I guess if he sent me a picture of his nipple I would complain too...
I feel bad for Geri. If he can't generate hotter sexts than that she should be flirting elsewhere.
Susie is mad because she sent him pics and he didn't respond.
Open thread topic: the piss poor sales of EV motorcycles, that just about any motorcyclist could have predicted from miles away.
https://www.advrider.com/is-harleys-livewire-brand-dead
"Adding in the mere 597 motorcycles LiveWire sold in 2022 and the 461 sold in 2021, the LiveWire group had only sold 1,718 electric motorcycles in three full years. While LiveWire electric motorcycle sales did increase year over year, selling 63 motorcycles more than in the previous year is nothing to crow about."
Zero has been cutting prices, and even with massive Biden Bucks thrown in the sales, from the few numbers I can try and dig up for 2023, didn't look good.
Much like with EV cars, there seemed to be a spike in interest during Covid, and then a cool-off as reality set in.
Nobody is buying this junk except for a few rich guys for the novelty factor.
I saw headlines about the Kawasaki hybrid models, but haven't followed up. I think they were 200 to 300 ccs? If they accelerate like a 500 twin but return mileage like my 1977 Yamaha QT50, will the market increase?
OUCH.
Probably shoulda seen that coming. Multiple reasons:
-The marketing is shit. I could be convinced to ride an electro-weenie bike with the right performance, but I don't even know where to look for trustworthy info on such a thing.
Say I wanted to look into the Sur-Ron and comparable "low middleweight" e-bikes. Where would I go?
-The product is sometimes shit. (case by case)
-The product is chinese, or otherwise international (explains Item 1 above)
-The product competes with inherently better product. For 15+ grand (WHEW) imagine what your Harley LiveWire money would get you. How about a brand new '23 XSR900 and $5000 or $6000 worth of gas? ( https://www.cycletrader.com/Livewire/motorcycles-for-sale?make=Livewire%7C765341626&sort=relevance%3Adesc )
To Devil's Advocate a bit: putting *high instantaneous torque* in a package that can be made *relatively lightweight* is a recipe for grins. (Thinking of the Sur-Ron here but there are others)
If I can find a way to get my hands on a Sur-Ron I will review it. (if anyone here has one to lend me for a few days, I will travel to you)
Light weight and high torque would be great if you didn't have to put it to the ground through one narrow tire. Almost seems like a waste.
Somehow the skateboard makes it work despite postage stamp traction patch. Its accelerative enough that most people I have try it get thrown off the back the first time.
I'm guessing the Sur-Ron is similar, particularly with aftermarket non-MTB tires fitted.
Wish I could remember the handle of the ACF-er that has one
Grocery carts handle well, too.
Because they're not fast enough to induce understeer.
What are you talking about? I was assured that the Stark Varg was going to change the industry as we know it.
I have no desire to watch EMX or anything similar.
I think the real breakthrough is KTM's TPI fuel injected two strokes. Came out in 2018, I would have thought it could bring about a second coming of 2 stroke dirtbikes. Awesome power in a lightweight bike, now with fewer emissions concerns and better fuel economy. But none of the Japanese seem to be willing to re-invest in two stroke R&D, or paying KTM royalties to use their TPI system.
Yes and they went to TBI for 2024. From what I’ve gathered, TBI isn’t exactly flushed out yet. IIRC, TM is still using TPI. In fact, I believe they dropped carbs altogether for 2024.
0) Ugh, don't even get me started on Japanese companies and emissions controllable two stroke technologies.
1) Looking into TPI now. Sounds promising
very cool.
imagine going to a motocross event and finding out its quiet enough to play solitaire
I went to Formula E in Brooklyn in 2018 or so.
I fell asleep (literally) in the Audi “VIP” lounge during the race. Apparently the tickets a friend of mine and I enjoyed were $2,000+ a head. I would not have paid $20 for them. He had a fat Audi dealer consulting contract at the time, hence the tickets.
Was that (or is) on the water front? Might have only been one of a handful I've wasted my time on, on TV.
Reminded me how the lame TV shows in the 60s portrayed racing. Stick a bunch of hay bales out and you have a track. Which might have been fine 50+ years ago, but not today.
I did enjoy last year's Portland race. A real track. But, FE insists that real tracks are not where they want to be.
Red Hook, yeah. It’s waterfront, but far from glamorous.
We had dinner that night at Keen’s then smoked cigars on the terrace at Classic Car Club (where my buddy is a member). I upgraded myself to a PALATIAL suite at the Palace for the princely sum of $25. I skipped the sunday race in favor of working out of our NYC office - it was *that* boring.
They keep trying with electric rallicross. Part of the attraction is the 600hp turbo cars with anti-lag. Otherwise it sounds like a bunch of 1:1 electric radio controlled vehicles.
Yesterday: The FIA has announced that modified and cost-effective versions of the current Rally1 machines without hybrid power will form the World Rally Championship’s top class from next year.
They've determined that hybrids are a waste of time considering what all the extras needed actually do for a car.
Hurrah! The WRC was so stupid to go away from the 2019 Rally1’s that were a modern, safer incarnation of the dear, departed Group Bs to the stupid hybrids. With the hybrids, the WRC had 2.5 works teams.
Man the 600cc RallyKart (KartCross? What are they called?) cars look insanely fun.
I naively think this is a form of racing I could convince myself to participate in.
Edit: these things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpH6A-_UDY0
One of my profs thinks the resistance to EVs is bias, as if the lights, sounds, and actions if ICE cars are somehow irrelevant and that goes doubly so for racing.
"One of my profs..."
There's the problem.
Yup. Really doesn't help when they also have an inflated ego.
It's like someone telling you that you don't like LED & CFL lighting because you have "bias"
No asshole, it's bluer light (yes even the 2500K LEDs) that flickers all the time and unlike a smoothbrain *we can see it.*
ah but you see i am biased because i like getting 450km to a tank and can refill in 4 minutes
also I guess not being able to see the flicker (I hate the colour temperature of white streetlights especially) makes me a smoothbrain. Not sure if that's a meme or not, I've not seen the flicker unless its malfunctioning. What were you thinking of in particular, headlights?
Not to mention the quality of the cars' interiors that get cheaped-out on because the mfg has to spend 20-40 grand on LITHIUM like a WINE AUNT
No, they cheap out by making the entire interior out of recycled and “sustainable” crap that will show its age two days after the warranty expires!
"the mfg has to spend 20-40 grand on LITHIUM like a WINE AUNT"
This is such a good line I'm mad i didn't come up with it.
Which suck. Electric RC cars are terrible. Nitro or GTFO.
Going to make this one a separate post today.
"So that was a fucking lie."
do you think someone would do that
just go on the internet and tell lies
Didn't say I was going to POST it today! Just said I was going to MAKE it!!!!!!11!!!eleven!
Iirc when I looked it up a zero has 93 miles of range at 70mph. And it’s not like you’d ride the full 93 then look for a gas station you’d be getting nervous after about 70 miles I figure like you would with less than a gallon of reserve on a normal gas bike. I just can’t think how I’d use a bike like that. $15k to only be able to use it as a commuter? Bizarre.
How long will it take until everyone realizes that the best vehicles ever made were a 2002 GMC Sierra and the 2015 Chevrolet Camaro 6-speed manual 1SS 1LE? They don't shut down at stop signs, they don't shut down half their cylinders, they do not have back-up cameras or the annoying drivers aids that is basically the ex-wife package. For me going forward I am on the lookout for a well cared for 5th Gen or 6th Gen Corvette and staying away from anything new cause that crap breaks and takes all the fun out of driving.
An expression of that is the Ineos Grenadiers, although it still has to fully federalized. I am testing driving one next week.
anus grenaders
Fully federalized anus grenaders
Please report back.
Your comment is very reflective of a shift I'm seeing in many, many thoughtful people... and that's towards preservation and enjoyment rather than getting the next car.
We all have a point at which we get off the crazy train.
I concede to the Joneses. I just want peace and contentment now.
If it wasn't for the fact that an SUV would be more practical for my family day to say, I'd keep my 2018 Mazda 6 Grand Touring Reserve until the wheels fall off. I currently have less than 40K miles on it. Only thing I'd wish it have is wireless AA.
We had similar, and it was a great car. Mazda should have (did they?) sold it with a non-clatterbox turbo-4 or a 6 and we'd still be running it.
The 2.5T has been fine. I prefer it over the NA 2.5 we have in our CX-5. Cruising, it sounds better than the Honda, Ford, and GM 2.0T variants.
There is a contentment element at play, as well:
A few years ago, two guys I know personally / IRL (to some extent at least) were going back and forth on Rennlist. One of them is a decorated former MLB pitcher who has done some racing. He now owns several car dealerships in Fresno. He is also ferociously intelligent. The other guy is a trustafarian par excellence. He is my age, went to the same Ivy League school as Matt Farah, and has never even thought about working. He’s too busy shopping every day, driving his 918 or CGT or Singer or etc.
The trustafarian whined that he was SO SAD he only had the “regular” Singer Classic and not the super limited Singer DLS. The ex-MLB player reminded him to be content with what he had, given it’s hard to drive 10 supercars when all you do is shop and dine out.
technically there are worse problems to have
This is a false choice, as demonstrated by the thousands I spent on my 996 last year and the hundreds I've saved since last week toward my C8.
Renaissance that, b----es!
Let’s cut the shit and get to the quick. Car prices are sooo seriously fucked up they make housing prices seem sane!
My personal situation in the Twin Cities (MN) speaks to this insane reality.
We have a household income around 250k. House payment is less than 10% of that. We have 4 vehicles that range from 9-12 years old. I considered buying 2 new vehicles this year. Until I realized that on top of the insanely expensive prices I would have to basically pay the equivalent of 10% transaction price in sales tax and registration!
Sorry for the language but no fucking way! This household will be driving used iron for the foreseeable future!
I’m mad as hell and can’t take it anymore!
I here this alot but to play devil's advocate but if I look at MSRP of my 2010 Mazda 6 in 2010 and compare it to a a 2024 similarly equipped, the 2024 is slightly cheaper. It also comes with more HP and loads more tech features.
Unlike home prices, cars have followed inflation pretty closely. Trucks on the other hand have been a good bit higher than inflation, but that's mostly due to demand. Can't blame ford or GM many joes want to drive a truck.
Well said, my 2018 Silverado does NOT have auto stop start and will be my last as I hate that feature on the new vehicles. In 1974 the govt mandated that the starter be disabled if you tried to start the car with out buckling your seat belt, the outrage was so loud Congress over road the bureaucracy and the feature was dropped mid year. The public needs to rise up again to stop the incorporation of some of this aggravating technology into the cars.
I'm assuming you hadn't looked at what today's interest rates do to payments longer than 48 months, or you'd REALLY spit blood.
True, but historically they are only slightly above average. We were just spoiled by a Fed printing money (or lending it for free)
Totally true. But historical loan durations were usually 36 months or less.
i actively refuse to do that
Here at the station wagon factory they published new lease rates for employees. I can get an i4 for the same price as an entry level 330. Other bev models as well. Something says that the things don’t sell well. What do I know. Still making 1500 wagons a day.
I LOLed at station wagon factory.
Buddy lives nearby, love that part of the world.
There are now 196 Cadillac Lyriqs at Sewell Cadillac per Jayson. Lot poison garbage!
Wonder how many the Sewell GM will have to trade to another dealer for ONE Escalade ESV-V.
That's not how it works now. He'd have to agree to take about fifty Lyriqs FROM the dealer in exchange for getting one ESV-V.
That's a healthy ratio.
Yep, all with either black or hideous gray interiors. And with $1500 dealer "protection" package.