519 Comments

Can't argue with anything you said about F1. Ricciardo needs to leave, and Sargent as well.

Funny you should mention IQ, since Mr. Leyland used aggregate numbers from Israel and India to tell me how Indians as a whole are inferior.

I have another subtle point about the IQ test, the MAKERS of the test did not intend it to be used as a indicator of suitability, or to cast a linear curve the way people interpret it. Don't know if that was in Taleb's article (DNR), but just throwing it out there.

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The difficulty with using IQ to shit on Indians is that, just by bell curve and population mechanics/numbers, there are gonna be a LOT more 130IQ Indians that 130IQ Israelis. The same is true of China, about whom the Russians used to say, "If you could machine-gun a million a day, you'd have three years' work ahead of you."

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A fact I tried pointing out, and failed before being berated further.

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I literally DID THE MATH to show that there would be SOME outliers compatible with Western norms and how the SUBSTANTIALLY lower mean interacts with 4x higher population. 4x population only means 4x as many competent people if the means are similar.

Indian Supremacists need to also explain:

* GDP/capita (compared to, say, Vietnam which was communist until 1990)

* Olympic medals (compared to wee Ireland)

* PISA scores (72/74 in 2009, before dropping out)

* The fact that Indian nationals will do almost ANYTHING to escape India

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I don't recall ever mentioning Israel (but I suppose it is possible):

>>> import statistics

>>> india = statistics.NormalDist(mu=76, sigma=15)

>>> round(100*(1 - india.cdf(100)), 2)

5.48

>>> round(100*(1 - india.cdf(115)), 2)

0.47

If these numbers are correct, around than 5% of Indians can compete for a 100 IQ job, and less than 0.5% for a 115 IQ job.

If the top 10% of Indians are already integrated into the global economy, the maximum IQ of those "waiting in the wings" to take over a Western job if WFH persists is:

>>> round(india.inv_cdf(0.90))

95

...

So 10% of Indians are CURRENTLY integrated into the global economy, the marginal Indian worker who is NOT ALREADY in the global economy (90th percentile in India) falls between the state AVERAGE of #49 Louisiana and #50 Mississippi.

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/we-compared-average-iq-score-in-all-50-states-results-are-eye-opening.html

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Even with all that, I think it's fair to say that we have no "Indian supremacists" arguing on ACF. We have a few fellows who happen to hail from India and, while they are realistic about their country as we try to be about ours, will bristle if this forum turns into an endless rant on Indians as a whole.

My livelihood has been adversely impacted by H1-Bs -- but the truth of it was that it was American corporate lizards, working from the basest instincts possible, who created the situation, not the fellows who came here to do the work.

If a company in Switzerland offered me 5x my current wage to go work in Switzerland, I'd do it in a heartbeat, even if I had to lie on my resume and live in a cramped apartment once I got there. I have absolute sympathy for the people who come here to better their lives, and absolute hatred for the people who are misusing Indians and other folks to destroy the standard of living in the USA.

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I certainly don't blame the Indians but our corporate lizards should be hanged. I still want to limit immigration which doesn't mean I hate Indians or Mexicans or anyone else. Except Russians. I guess we're allowed to hate THOSE immigrants again and I gotta hate someone

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I've posted similar comments about not hating the individuals who take advantage of the situation, and that the blame lies with the politicians and other lizard people.

A lot of this started with Boom's bold claim that if WFH continued, all white collar work would move to India. I used statistics to dispute that claim, given India's state of education and human capital and the large number of corporations that already have offices in country.

It is very typical for Indians to simultaneously:

1) Insult Europeans as ignorant, stupid, and lazy

2) Brag and praise about the superiority of India and Indian pepole

3) Argue fiercely with anything that conflicts with #2

4) Work 24/7 to avoid returning to India

If more Indians took an attitude of "Yeah, it's objectively a shithole with a lot of really dumb people, I'm glad I was in the top 0.01% and made it out, and I just try to be a good citizen in my new country," then they would attract a lot less resentment.

I'm comfortable saying the following about my culture:

North Americans are disgustingly fat, and Europe is catching up. The Scottish have shockingly high substance abuse rates. The English are wankers. The West has adopted numerous toxic, self-desructive, and evil ideologies. Marriage is all but extinct in most of the West. White people are literally GOING extinct due to sub-replacement fertility. American food contains too much soy and GMO.

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The main issue (irrespective of the lying and the "are they actually getting these jobs on merit?" question) is just the ethnic nepotism networks and the often overt antiwhite hatred.

if white guys started moving to india and turning indian multinationals alabaster employee by employee, Indians would have a right to be extremely pissed about it, and the intelligence of the white people replacing them would be mostly irrelevant in the matter. The same is true in reverse

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You're right.

If someone's giving something away, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

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Don't hate the player, comrade, hate the game. - Joe Stalin

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Baruth :: fellows

Obama &c :: folks

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>tfw i have to take a stats class to be racist on the internet

why does life have to be so hard

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All these debates come down to an issue of "what percentage of [people X] are smart? what percent are crooks? What percent are kind, open people who can assimilate into judeo-christian values?

It's difficult to estimate the proportions, since good data are hard to come by (and most likely illegal to attest to in print in the US!) That said, the anecdotes don't always paint a pretty picture.

Speaking of anecdotes, the ones from this book https://tinyurl.com/3hvk8zwa

Contained in this twitter thread are HILARIOUS. https://tinyurl.com/3mn7hyj9

(The guy in question in the book still maintains his innocence--impressive chutzpah)

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This service makes TwitterX threads more readable:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1768089462246900134.html

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thanks bud

really makes me hate cliques of individuals that arent mine

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our clique would be ILLEGAL and aggressively prosecuted!

This is even stranger...the company had a DUTY to protect sensitive military technology from non-citizens, and then got nailed for not making an exception for a strange edge cases. I think that the law is possibly incorrect here. Suppose the Native Americans were to rise up against people like me and I went to Israel for asylum: would the Israelis give me access to sensitive tech, or would they say "we'll let you stay for your safety, but try working at a bank or a bakery or something."

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-spacex-discriminating-against-asylees-and-refugees-hiring

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The fact that Liam Lawson is watching this year while Dan Ric, Sargent, and Stroll drive really highlights the fact that driving talent is far from the only consideration F1 teams have when hiring their drivers.

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Lance Stroll has an absolute ironclad right to drive in Formula 1, given his father poured tens of millions of dollars into his junior career, funded his seat at Williams, rescued the Force India team from administration, and invested hundreds of millions into the “Aston Martin” team.

Lance can race F1 until he’s 50 if his father is still willing to fund it.

One could make an argument that Max should be looking at Aston Martin for 2026, or more likely 2027 (if the Red Bull Powertrains effort goes poorly):

Honda engine; Aramco fuel and oil (outside budget cap I believe); Aramco’s ability and willingness to pay Max (he could probably get $250MM / year). If they can lure Adrian Newey over it would make sense.

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I would have less of an issue with Stroll if F1 wasn't effectively a closed shop. I believe every team voted against Andretti joining.

Now I'm not saying Team Andretti would be any good, but there would be two more drivers jobs available.

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This 100 percent. And could Andretti do any worse than Sauber or Alpine? And you can imagine the team could afford more than 2 chassis and wouldn't bite its nails every time a driver crashed.

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"And could Andretti do any worse than Sauber or Alpine?"

My God, they could.

They could be 5 seconds off the pace. They could be where Minardi was before they got Tsunoda. (Kidding sorta).

I met Gene Haas and visited his shop before they did their first season. I also went to their NASCAR shop. The difference between the two was like the difference between a modern supercomputer and a TI calculator. People have no idea how hard it is to be DFL in F1. Look how easily Williams just knocked out the Best Porsche Engine Of All Time. As a side gig.

As a constructor, Andretti might post the worst record in the modern era. They have zero idea what it takes.

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fair enough...

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Andretti would finish multiple laps down to Logan.

When was the last time Andretti or GM raced in a development series?

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Adrian Newey being worth much more than any driver! Have you read his book?

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Of course I have!

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Yeah, and you probably recommended it to me! It's not the kind of data I store in my ageing brain...

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One of the biggest problems with 'IQ' is that being too far above the mean is almost as bad as being just as far below. Because the world is made for the mean and the further you get from that, the harder certain things can get. Language and communication being key among them.

Take the phrase 'Drive it like you stole it'. It has two distinct meanings, right?

Now you begin to see the problem.

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I know one very smart woman who is often very annoyed. The other smart people I know of both genders seem mostly be very successful and happy. I think that having PhD's from good schools has helped most of them to get good jobs that don't bore them (to Jack's observation that often midwits are better at jobs than the highly intelligent).

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I have said before, having intelligence above a certain threshold is indistinguishable from mental illness.

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I think it was Oliver Sacks who said that people who have outsized abilities in intelligence or art often show minor symptoms of major mental illnesses.

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It would be nice to have data on IQ versus mental issues. Gotta wonder what that correlation factor is

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wait what do you mean it has two different meanings

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What does it mean to you?

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Go fast as hell? really not sure what else it could mean because ive only ever heard it in that context

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Drive carefully, obey all the laws, don't attract any attention.

THAT was what it meant to me. If you stole it, you sure as hell don't want to be caught in it. Also, after going to the trouble of stealing it, why would you want to wreck it (as well as go to jail)?

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i thought driving it like you stole it was used to describe joyriding more specifically because if you stole it youd need to escape custody if you were in danger of getting caught

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Excellent example of language having two meanings depending on which end of the spectrum you are on. At one end you may actually be confused if you don’t have context.

My problem is if I “Drive it like I stole it.” I am still getting caught by the cops or passed on the cart track. Know your limitations and stay out of the left lane of there is faster traffic is what I have to do.

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I missed the relevant discussion on Sunday.

I am having difficulty understanding why you are obsessed with what other people think of Indians, particularly those who might criticize in any way or have a view on “castes” that doesn’t align with yours.

The same could be said for posters who are obsessed with Israel and believe that anyone who dares criticize Israel(is) is a petty, jealous, Jew-hating antisemite.

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He's Indian!

No doubt he doesn't want to pay money to read people who just rant about his countrymen -- even if he disagrees with them.

I'd stand idly by while New York City got dropped into a woodchipper -- but if I moved to Germany and some people were always ragging on the USA, I can guarantee you I'd work up some patriotism.

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I'm not even patriotic. Some of the ridiculous tropes that get trotted out on every opportunity get to be grating..

There are many things wrong culturally with people from the subcontinent, but raw intelligence, or the lack there of is not an obvious one..

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To be clear - I have no problem with India or its exports (i.e., Indians).

Most of the ones I personally know are smart, hard-working, ambitious, clever, etc … but don’t take themselves too seriously.

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You don't just post in self-defense. You often make triumphant "obvious" and "common sense" posts that Indians are better than Europeans and Euro-Americans in every meaningful respect; that therefore displacement is natural, obvious, just, and rightfully will only accelerate; and that anyone who objects to this glorious process should probably be ashamed of himself.

When challenged with counterexamples, you dismiss them as anecdotes.

When challenged with statistics, you dismiss the statistics (or, today, the concept of IQ testing itself).

Attempting to characterize legitimate data as "ridiculous tropes" doesn't change the truth of the ideas presented.

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Not once have I asserted anything of the sort... But keep at it Sir.. you have things to get off your chest

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A very smart man once gave me some advice about arguing with internet randos: "It doesn't earn you a dime, does it?"

I had a splendid time watching the eclipse with my son, daughter-in-law and grandkids at their friend's place in Cleveland. Showed the kids how to make a pinhole camera to watch the eclipse. Totality was cosmically amazing. Took home some pulled beef from Mendel's KC BBQ. Everyone made it home safely. Life is good.

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man

but what if arguing with randos could be turned into a profession

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Then you'd be working for one of the lefty PACs that spam 4chan with low effort posts

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id be a shitposting double agent in a heartbeat

not like lefty memes are good or hard to make

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I don't value IQ, judge

Well how do you compare yourself to other golfers?

By height

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Thank you very little.

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Hope everyone is excited for King of the Baggers at COTA!

And some other races, too. I think it's European?

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Intuitive improvisation is the secret of genius per Max Zorin. Yet he goes out of his airship and tries to whack some limey hanging off some suspension bridge, and gets himself killed instead.

You, Jack, are correct.

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It was BAD intuitive improvisation!

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One of my absolute favorite Bond movies.

The sight of AARP-aged Roger Moore clomping up the stairs at Le Tour Eiffel in pursuit of May Day after a delightful lunch at Restaurant Jules Verne really sets the tone.

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I don’t think any tests measure spatial intelligence aside from the drivers test.

I do think drawing stems from spatial intelligence.

There was no test or grade that would indicate that I could design and solve problems at 3x the rate of my peers, and that I could also work at 2x the speed of my mechanics.

I think spatial intelligence is tied to testosterone in a way that nerds and study Asian NPCs really don’t want to acknowledge.

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Ah, but why am I such a great driver, and have the temper control of a chimpanzee, when I can't draw, then? :)

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Drawing is a skill that takes practice, just like any other skill.

Art, even more so - though having a certain amount of inborn talent will help.

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A friend who has played and taught guitar professionally once said, "There's no such thing as talent. It's just technique and practice."

"What about improvisational solos?"

"Oh, I was just talking about playing. Soloing, writing songs, that takes talent."

Knowing how to draw would help me in a lot of things that I do so I asked another friend, who did commercial art and taught art and illustration at the collegiate level, how to learn how to draw. He said to start drawing 30 minutes a day. "What about technical stuff like perspective?" "Oh, that you can learn in minutes, but you can only learn how to draw by drawing."

Interestingly, when people ask me about become writers, I pretty much tell them the same thing. Start writing and eventually you'll find your voice. Oh, and read Strunk & White and once you're good at following their rules you can start to break them.

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Yeah, I pretty much tell people the same thing, you have to keep doing it to learn how to do it well. I don't tell them about grammar books though. As I've mentioned before, it's pretty much a waste of time. After all there are I think 4 major grammar books and they agree on almost nothing? English grammar is a complete bitch that changes it's clothes, makeup, and shoes, like every other minute.

Just make it entertaining and understandable and you'll do okay.

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Why can't ENGINEERS draw?

They're supposed to be building the future, or at least bridges and airplanes, and they can't pull a coherent image off a piece of paper with a pencil.

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I resemble that remark!

In reality, for me, I've spent too much time on a computer.

I used to have less than decent handwriting but it wasn't terrible. I would struggle today to write a legible paragraph.

When I had to draw on graph paper for math or engineering, it wasn't bad. Today its terrible. I struggled last week just just to put a state diagram on a white board. It's all about practice.

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My writing is so terrible that people have said I should have been a doctor. My reply is that I don’t have the patients for it!

I’m here all week—try the Caesar Salad!

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bro im trying

ive only taken one class of technical drawing and apparently nobody uses pencil anymore

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"The hardest part of any project is WANTING TO DO IT. Get that out of the way and everything else falls into place by itself."

"Don't try to be better than everyone else. Just try to be better than you were yesterday."

Two of the best pieces of wisdom I ever heard.

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Testify!

If there’s a will, there’s a way.

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Because we only have to draw one bird and label it "Bird (typ.)". Or better yet just use a keynote and a legend that says "bird (see sheet C702 for bird detail)" and paste in the standard detail from your bird vendor.

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"See Ref. 25-788-A-Ver. 6K on DWG5623-7790-F, Rev J for currently-approved 'BIRD.' Not for common distribution outside of Design Department. Penalties apply."

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Sounds confusing. I'll just write "contractor to match existing wingspan" and call it a day.

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No no no no no no

Must specify type of bird, male/female, age, mass, color, number of feathers, color of eyes, size and hardness of beak, length of talons, expected angle of wing rotation, and anything else that the vendor (or your own purchasing dept) might try to cheap out on. Lock it down in the initial quote dwg!!!!

😂

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If they are good engineers, then they can draw, or at least sketch out the idea. If they can’t draw/sketch, then they should do something else.

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When I'm designing something, I might make a crude sketch or two, certainly take some measurements, but then I just start cutting wood or using CAD etc.

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I can draft pretty well freehand. Better if I use a few basic tools.

Ask the guys giving you the bad drawings if they took any drafting classes or not.

I know it was a requirement when I got my degree, and I'm a EE

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I draw extremely well with a an excellent mechanical intellect…probably why I gravitated towards Industrial Design.

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This fucking iPhone makes me sound like a short bus parole with the spelling and word interjecting however. I’m now refusing to have to visit the physical site to edit.

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Same here.

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Look on the bright side considering the last German artist anyone talks about

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Doubt it did, but if that scene in the show "The Gentlemen" used authentic paintings, he wasn't as bad as people say.

Edit: his work is not great not terrible.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hitler+paintings

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because you get faster when youre mad

duh

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I’m too dum to know what spatial intelligence means but it sounds something like the ASTB? Jack you might want to learn that acronym based on your son’s intended path.

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I was going to suggest that a pilots license, captains license, or competition license would be strong indicators.

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Good equipment operators have excellent spatial awareness. Some of the operators at the customer sites I go to can thread a needle with twin 20ft containers

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One of the most painful things I’ve witnessed were the forklift drivers at Cat’s Seguin engine plant. And there are a lot of forklifts there.

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Germany has a forklift operator championship

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of course they do

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I would watch that

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Rotating objects in your head. I am very good at this but functionally illiterate. Hence 85

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WAIS includes at least Block Design and probably other visual-spatial subtests

Most evaluations include the Rey–Osterrieth complex figure

AFTQ includes at least some spatial relations (object rotation, I think)

there are probably others

Also, there *IS* a relationship between visual-spatial and testosterone (although many studies said low-T men did *better*). Also some researchers believe that depression affects VS more strongly than verbal.

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There was a shape rotation game but they took it down. Pretty sure it was here.

https://rotate-game.herokuapp.com/

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reminds me of that meme where people on twitter were saying they dont have an internal monologue and that they couldnt visualize shapes in their head

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Yeah this was the game at that time

Internal monologue lackers though... not sure about them (unless present company includes those... but i doubt it)

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Sitting here trying to think of an F1 race I wouldn't prefer over Vegas... I'll get back to you.

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I was sitting on my back porch smoking cigars when the CEO of f-1 Miami called me and asked "Do you want to go to the race" I had just had a child so I had to regretfully tell him "No" This story is partially true.

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