My oldest saw a thumbnail of racing so we watched an F1 highlights reel and there's a non-zero chance I will have an F1 season watch pass in the future.
I lost interest in F1 maybe 15 years ago, so the whole Hamilton era is a curiosity to me. He seems like the Drake of motorsport - makes sure you know all about his black heritage when it suits, but encourages you to forget that he comes from a privileged background that allowed him every chance to succeed
I concede that I am not intimately familiar with Hamilton's biography (and the British press is prone to hagiography), but how is he from a privileged background? His parents were divorced, he attended what was as best I can tell a fair-to-middling public Catholic school, and his father worked as many as four jobs simultaneously to support his racing. Granted, McLaren gave him a seat in the young driver program in 1998, but it's not as if Hamilton came from a wealthy family or was he the son of a professional racer who opened doors for him.
I'm no great fan of the man, but as best I can tell, he worked hard to get where he is.
My father, a veterinarian who would point out the genetic shortcomings of particular pure breed dogs (pugs can't breathe, keeshonds & shepards get hip dysplasia), once said that a lot of multiracial people are attractive, that it's as though they have the best features of both groups.
LeBron James' ticket was punched from the moment someone saw a kid in junior high with immense talent. Same with Wayne Gretsky. Same with Hamilton once his talent was spotted.
Michael Jordan, on the other, couldn't make the varsity team on his high school as a sophomore and had to work hard to improve his game. As a pro, he was known for almost inventing reasons to have a grudge against opponents so he'd be up for games.
I wonder what the Lewis Hamiltons, Wayne Gretskys and LeBron Jameses of the world would be like if they actually had to struggle as teens and young adults.
Gretsky was talented and would have been a star in the original six, but was he as tough as Messier & LaFleur? Gretsky had both Marty McSorley and the NHL protecting him. Gordie Howe fought his own fights and stood up for his teammates. Howe pretty much considered Gretsky to be his heir as the greatest so I'll defer to his judgment but the NHL gave him special treatment just as the NBA let Michael Jordan take as many steps as he wanted, running to the basket from the free throw line on a layup.
Absolutely correct. If you touched Gretzky he would look right at the referee and the arm would go up. Lots of points obviously, which were a product of that era, but he was both soft and protected.
I doubt it was intentional, but I resent being called a coward because I make choices for my kids that aren't "badass dad" approved. My son wasn't allowed to play football, even though I survived it with no [readily apparent, at least thus far] consequences. But I know people who weren't so lucky, and in my estimation, the risk didn't justify the reward. If anyone wants to call me a coward for that, well...go fuck yourself.
For the record, I called time on my son's football career as soon as he indicated a desire to go from flag to tackle. There's cowardly and then there's "can read a book of head injury statistics".
I called time on my boys' riding dirt bikes, and I still feel conflicted about it because on the one hand it kept me focused and out of other kinds of trouble during my teenaged years, but on the other hand I have brain damage that shows up on an MRI and I spend most days on the right side of the pain scale.
There’s an effton of daylight between saying no to football and saying yes to today’s bubble-wrap brigade. And while I suspect I’m, if anything, overcautious with my daughter, I find the safety patrol is far freer with unsolicited advice than the badass dads.
I have daughters so it’s a little bit different calculus and saves me from making difficult decisions. My oldest is pretty involved with competitive cheer, which also has a fairly high concussion risk especially for her position (backspot or base), but honestly, the health risks of not participating in competitive sports worries me much more than the risks of the sports. I’ve pushed my kids to try a little bit of everything (suburban common stuff anyways, not much motor sports here) and just let them choose what they like. I don’t care what you do, you just have to do something. I’ve gotten far more involved in competitive cheer than I ever thought possible or likely (and the stereotypes of the women involved are 100% accurate) but I wouldn’t trade the time spent with her for anything.
There are more concussions from youth soccer than from football. I'm not saying football is safe. Actually, the most dangerous recreational activity for kids in terms of injuries is bicycle riding, I suppose from broken wrists and arms more than getting hit by cars. I guess that statistic is a bit like how pitbull enthusiasts like to point out that more people are bitten by Golden Retrievers than by any other breed.
Am I misremembering newspaper reports in the eighties that cited statistics as the basis for naming the Chihuahua as the most common biters? Perhaps that was from the Alsatian Appreciation Society 🤔
I’ve two goldens myself. They’ve been attacked twice by other dogs. Both times pits with what I will best equate to white trash owners. Like most stereotypes, they end up being quite self fulfilling.
As for golden bites themselves, the dogs are like giant Teddy bears. Unfortunately that means people forget their boundaries - esp kids with pulling and poking etc. I’ve had to be quite careful accordingly as my one gets pretty nervous when smothered. A restrained warning nip however is different than an uncontrollable mauling from a very strong, high energy and low IQ dog.
I'll be cautious around pit bulls but I won't go anywhere near a german shepard / wolf cross. My father refused to let wolf crosses in his vet hospital. Pit bulls may have a gene for aggression but they also have tens of thousands of years of domestication and probably have the companionability gene that dogs can have as well. Wolves are wild animals and they will eat you. I don't care if it's a reptile, a large cat, chimpanzee, or wolf crosses, "exotic" animals are not suitable as house pets.
My nephew played O Line In Div 1 football. Shot knees, concussions, $150K to fix his shoulder by the University Hospital about 2 years after graduating. When he could no longer be a starter his backup took over. His backup banked 32 million in the NFL. I'm glad my nephew wasn't NFL material. 6 ft 8 and 305 and not big enough.
They had him eyeballed in Jr High. Even then it always the management trying to get players that makes management look good for the next job. Jr High coaches want to be HS coaches. HS coaches want to be College coaches. SOME College coaches want to be NFL coaches.
As it unfortunately should be if you want to win, football is a use them up and spit them out game where the players are the most and least important part of the team.
I think the smart College coaches stay in College. His College coach went sideways to a school in another conference. Went to the NFL. Now back in college for a prestige coaching gig. If he got and gets the full amount of money in each contract he's probably grossed a 100 million bucks. Each time his words are "I love you guys. My heart is here. I've found a home". Until the next time.
No one really plays football for the love of the game when at a high level.
The risk with restricting your kids from dangerous activities is that it’ll backfire on you and they’ll find those pursuits irresistible. Happened to me to some extent where my dad wouldn’t let us play hockey or ride dirt bikes despite owning a couple of bikes himself when younger. When I eventually got behind the wheel, I’m not proud to admit that I was a bit of an idiot. Lots of accidents, high insurance rates, and fucked up neck muscles from more than one whiplash.
I feel like you’re better off introducing your kids to action sports and pointing out the risks so they are aware and can make better decisions on their own.
I wholeheartedly understand this as someone who wasn't allowed to do much of anything as a kid. Made a lot more sense when I got older. Kept me in one piece so far and I'm in no rush to get all banged up, but I am keen on racing and getting on two wheels.
It sounds like I’m slagging my dad, but I do get where he was coming from. He had dumped his bikes a couple of times and my mom had been onboard for one of those events with remnants of roadrash still on display when I was a kid.
He also more than compensated for his conservativeness by taking us skiing A LOT where we were set free to do as we wished in the mountains. We always had a great time and somehow managed to escape serious injury after multiple trips per year for our childhood and our teens. Not such a bad dude!
My entire adult life is a consequence of what I wasn’t allowed to do. I’ve only upheld a few reservations and I’m still a little upset with myself for doing so. Life is meant to be lived. You just have to mitigate where you can and hope for the best.
Everything is risk/reward. Plastic trophy or shot at the big time with million$ & hot babes? For dads the same: work in a coal mine to put a roof over their heads and food on the table vs weekend warrior for shits and giggles?
The van't Hoff crash teased the armchair track designers out of their cages to cry "Spa is unsafe" and wanting to do major renovation of the course because there was practically no runoff where the accident happened. Fuck in-car signaling, let's bring the Cat D9s to this legendary track. (To be honest the FIA's system is a hunk of shit, demonstrated by last year's Japanese GP where Seb's incar clearly showed a green flag as he blasted by the rescue tractor, we didn't see Pierre Gasly's light but he's sure it wasn't red.)
The problem is, even if not related to each other, Spa is 0 for 2 in just a few years. This is a "Something must be done!!!" situation. If Spa and/or the race organizers don't at a minimum pay lip service to this, the "System" in the outside world will. Because these were young men and not "Professionals" like F1 but just young people, someone will say "Think of the children".
Luckily, my girlfriend is working for a HPDE company at Spa. The F1 ceremony was stopped for the obligatory 55sec moment of silence. Next weekend the Spa24h race too. But they ran it. Spa just spent millions on the track; motorsports are dangerous - you could even die on an open lapping day, deal with it.
Yep, we are witnessing true genius at work behind the wheel of the #1 RB.
The race overall was the best in a while with some good mid-field battles. Yay for Chuckie bringing it home in second, and kudos to Carlos for an astounding single lap effort in Q2. Very impressive.
Tsunami didn’t look so hot this weekend, but Christian should move Checo to AT and promote Yuki to RB for the remainder of the season. I think he’s ready.
Good solid racing at Mid Ohio. Palou deserves a shot at F1.
Chicago was a gong show in the wet, but SVG rocked his NASCAR debut. Looked like the rest of the field were just video game blocker cars. Very composed when interviewed after the race and firm on his plan for another year racing in NZ/Australia before a potential move to the US.
Well we did not go racing this weekend or see any races so not much to contribute to the conversation. I was at the Cadillac LaSalle Club Grand National in Albuquerque New Mexico last week. Saturday evening I returned to the hotel early from the awards banquet so that I could get on the road early. Sunday morning at 3:00am MST we pointed the Silverado east on I-40 (Memo to file, the speed limit on rural interstates and four lane secondary roads out west is 75, but the normal speed is 85). The temperature as we crossed the mountains east of the city.was 42 degrees. Arrived in Amarillo and the temperature was 85 at 8:00 CST. Headed down FM 287 to DFW and when we stopped at Buc'ees in Denton north of the city it was 104 degrees. Talk about a temperature change. Memo to file: Texas did a great job rebuilding the 635 belt way on the north side of the city, it is a work of road building art. Texas is ianow rebuilding the 635 belt way on the east side of the city it is more of a Picasso. Then it east on I-20 to Shreveport Louisiana and I-49 to Baton Rouge to pick up I-10. Arrived at the welcome to Florida rest area at 5:00am EST. Had to catch a two hour nap even if the humidity was 100 percent could not drive any further after 26 hours behind the wheel. Celebrating seven decades next year (someone asked me during judging the cars on Saturday asked me how old I am and I said take a guess, he said 50-55, Sorry Jack, but he could not believe I am 69) and can still motor down the highway. I am reminded of something David Berry wrote when talking about his Greatest Generation parents. "Yes they drank to much, they ate to much red meet, they smoked to much, and if they had taken care of themselves they might have lived 10 years longer, but they would not have enjoyed life as much, and that counts for something".....
I'm about your age and these days it's hard for me to do more than 500-600 miles in a day but I can remember when I could drive 600 miles to NYC pretty much non stop with no need of stimulants save for maybe a little road head.
Speaking of which, the old, "Honey, I"m having trouble staying awake, how about a little help?" routing does work, and it is an E-ticket ride, but it's a ticket you can only cash in once with the same woman. Or so I've been told.
I tell people caution genes run in my family. My parents put seatbelts on the '57 chevy in '60 or '61. We had the first Peugeot station wagon in France with rear shoulder belts. My father, an academic economist, solved the simple topological problem for the men at the factory so that they could install them. I'm virtually certain that none of my siblings four children ever drove drunk. I took my niece for flying lessons when she was 7, because I knew there'd be an instructor who could take over at any moment, and there was nothing she could have bumped into in the sky--unlike the very few people to whom I gave driving lessons to, one of whom scared the crap out of me, doing something stupid, and then said, "You're not a bold creature are you?" (an English woman--remembering her saying it in that accent is, in retrospect, quite humorous)
And I never would have risked any kid of my air jumping a distance on a bicycle or done it myself. I DID ride a bicycle from Seattle to Boston, but I was wearing Bell hard-shelled helmet serial #7022 (this was 1975, they'd just come out), along with a rear view mirror that attached to my glasses, and I'd thought deeply about the risk, and concluded that it was very unlikely that I'd come to grief. And after I finished that trip, figuring there would be a lot of cycling in my future (but no races), I wrote an article on bicycle safety.
The only person I know of in my extended family who took more of a risk than I would take died a couple of months ago at 92, of leukemia. He's one of two people to have ever ascended Everest via the West Ridge--that in 1963. He was very careful there, as was the entire US expedition that he was on. Yet one person died in an avalanche, a fairly common occurrence on snow covered mountains. His partner on the West Ridge also died in an avalanche, about 15 years after the Everest expedition, on Rainier. Here's my favorite of a number of obits for him. https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/remembering-tom-hornbein-everest-pioneer/
I crashed jumping a bike recently. I deliberately went off the side of a 1/4 pipe at a skate park and went face first into the concrete deck. I had a helmet but the way I hit I think someone with a less hard head probably would have been knocked out. Unlike our host this* is not a habit of mine and I do not recommend it, but compared to the alternative of not trying to go for some sweet air it was probably worth the risk.
I regret, in roughly this order; not landing correctly, not setting up my fork correctly, not wearing a chin protector, not wearing gloves, not wearing more pads.
My friend suggested I take the money spent on this racing hobby and invest it in a 4plex to collect rent on.
I don't want to be a slumlord I want pretend to be a racing driver.
Reminded me of the article on the insurance website about being about it. "I’m here to be a racer. To run the fastest machinery I can(not) afford, as close to the limit as I can manage. If I crash the SR8, I’ll no doubt regret my choice, doubly so since I won’t be able to replace it. But this is life, not the Life board game that I played as a child. You don’t add up all your investments at the end and declare a winner."
Here’s what Dr. Helmut Marko and Christian Horner should do to (1) solve their driver issues and (2) give other F1 teams heartburn:
0-Dutch Cherub Nyck de Vries is sent back to Formula E or WEC with immediate effect
1-In the vacated AlphaTauri, the remaining ~13 races of the season are shared among (a) Danny Ric, (b) Liam Lawson, (c) Alex Palou; Danny Ric should be “race fit” and the most prepared, so let him have a go today, then Lawson, then have Palou finish up the season after he wins his second IndyCar title (Zak Brown can have a taste of his own medicine and lose Palou as a test driver)
2-The winner of the “shoutout” gets the second seat next to Yuki Tsunoda for 2024
3-At the end of this season, Helmut sends Checo back to Mexico where he can enjoy a lengthy, Tequila-fueled siesta
4-The second Red Bull seat will go to the final boss, the ultimate trickster, perhaps the only person who could hang with Max over the course of a title fight - Fernando, who would gladly leave the Strollercoaster for a final title tilt
5-When Fernando is ready to retire, he can slide right into either the Helmut Marko role (who is ~80 years old now) or the Christian Horner seat, who will by that time be ready to succeed Domenicali as the F1 CRH CEO; recall that Horner is a close Bernie ally, and that Bernie still exercises considerable FIA influence
There has been talk of Seb performing such a role (the Marko role) at Red Bull, and I have no doubt that he’d be a wise, thoughtful sounding board for the team.
But Fernando lives for motor racing.
Fernando will race until he can no longer do so, and then he will be in the F1 paddock until F1 is no more, or he dies.
Interesting take on Seb's future. I agree he appears to be a thoughtful guy, but lately those thoughts have been geared towards the Green Fantasy of carbon reduction/elimination, renewable power generation, and some social justice sprinkled in. Seems like he gets bored easily too. I can't really imagine him doing a Niki Lauda as a wise elder statesman.
If they gave him 3-4 races next to Tsunoda, we’d know if the McLaren period was an aberration, or his new normal.
Recall that he was very strong in the latter stages of 2020 in the Renault.
If he performed well, he’d be able to reignite his career; if not, everyone would know that, yes, he was fit for a lower tier series like Indycar, NASCAR, or Supercars.
He isn't good enough for Indycar, NASCAR is where he should go. But yeah he was decent in the Renault, but outside of that 1 year, he's been middle tier at best.
In 2020, he finished 5th in the WDC and put in profoundly impressive performances at Spa, Silverstone, and Imola. Then he won in 2021 in the McLaren at Monza.
He’s definitely good enough for Indycar - that’s where open wheel careers go to die.
They’d have the best driver lineup since the Senna-Prost era, if not ever, so they should be able to win the WCC with a there or thereabouts car.
They’d be able to install Fernando in a political, tactical role as soon as he retired (and yes, he could still skip Monaco for Indy). The other “top” teams are lacking in terms of leadership: Ferrari is very weak, and Aston Martin has the boss’s kid. Mercedes has Toto, for now.
I know you lead the Hamilton hate club but leaving him off this list is so damn petty. His numbers are astounding, and rightfully raised the bar before Max will shatter them in a few more 25-race seasons.
I'll leave LH44 off the list as well since I don't think he did anything to advance the state of the art. Just a safe pair of hands for the best car.
After years of thought on the matter, however, I *would* rate Hamilton at least equal to and likely above Vettel. Lewis has a knack for delivering every time he really needs to. Vettel too often fell short.
Senna raised the bar for raw "hands" talent behind the wheel. Michael raised the bar for preparation, practice, and team leadership. Sebastian and Lewis were worse drivers than Senna and worse team leaders than Michael. Listening to the radio of Lewis and Max makes the difference plain. Lewis complains about the car where Max offers detailed feedback. Max drives strategy while Lewis simply follows Toto's lead.
There's a chance to Lewis to really support George's development the way Schumacher did with Rosberg but I just don't think he is that kind of person.
What Sebastian did - perhaps to his detriment - was raise the level of debriefs and feedback.
Even during the twilight years at Aston Martin, he - and consequently his engineers - would be in the paddock hours and hours (sometimes as many as 6 hours) later than other teams going through minute, detailed discussion about every permutation of the car’s performance settings throughout the race track.
Nico Rosberg has a degree in engineering (I think) and would provide very SPECIFIC feedback for how to set the car up in terms of WHICH knob to turn and how much... He and Schumacher were a phenomenal pairing in terms of getting the car to 99% for every situation faster than any other team in the paddock. Then when the car itself became competitive, arrived 'Sir' 44, and even then, Rosberg did the bulk of the technical feedback and setup and Mr. 'They penalised me because I'm black' would go on an copy the setup as a starting point... ALL his championships in the Mercedes cars are of lower quality because of this, and no one can say anything to prove otherwise.
To each their own. Outside of the wet-weather driving and adaptability to win so many regulations (like Alonso) I found Lewis to have a mastery of the (rather unpleasant) flavor of modern F1 which was a balancing act between tire management and raw speed. Maybe this isn't a pure form of racing, but he did it better than anyone I've ever seen, since Prost, during his heights from 2016-2021. As for raising a bar, I think you might be a bit too myopic here, F1 acts like a showcase of gladiators but it's actually more of a team sport than any, and your ability to "change culture" is as much linked to the current state of engineering as it is your ability to turn a wheel. Senna didn't raise any bar of talent because I still don't think anyone has been more talented than Fangio or Clark, and either way there's no way of knowing if he was or if he just said enough half-spiritual, half-broken english in the media pen to make us feel like he was more interesting than the rest of the grid. As for Michael, he was the right man at the right time. Smart enough to take Sportscar racing knowledge to F1, with a dream team of Byrne, Brawn, Todt, and a borderline-psychotic Luca Di Montezemolo shoveling money into this F1 project to realize a dream.
Do you recall the stories of multiple world champion Michael Schumacher shunning his young family and all of his riches during the winter off season to live an ascetic life in Enzo’s old house in Maranello while he tested all day, every day at Fiorano?
What has Lewis done in terms of preparation and professionalism?
He doesn’t work in the simulator. He doesn’t embed himself with the team. He doesn’t even wear the team’s apparel when arriving at the track. He is the most selfish person in the entire paddock.
If you want to criticize my arguments, you should have some of your own to make in response.
Well, he HAS been a lion for gay and trans rights at every single venue where gay and trans rights are the aligned policy of the government and corporations involved. Nobody has ever worked harder to raise awareness of this issue in places as diverse as the USA, UK, and France.
While I am loathe to admit it, I did watch the final half of the NASCRAP race in Chicago, and apparently about 5 million other people did too.
They should expand / modify the course a bit (ideally you’d want to use more of Michigan Ave, especially the Mag Mile, and run a bit on LSD. This would only be possible if the city were willing to embrace the event fully.
Then run it as a tandem event with Indycar, and make it a double header for both series. One would race during the day on Saturday and then during prime time on Sunday, and the other series would take the alternating slots.
First NASCAR I've watched since they found that noose hanging from a garage door. Hopefully they've got their horrific racism under control now.
It reminded me of the old days at Riverside when so many drivers would essentially straight shot the esses. Those walls were a bit more unforgiving. Maybe F1 should install them and just be done with it.
The final 10 laps were some of the best racing of the season. That Haley vs Van Gisbergen shoot out was very fun to watch. SVG is fantastic, and I can't wait for him to run full time in Cup in 2025.
It has been a very entertaining season, with some good story lines! The Return of Kyle Busch, Elliot's chase for a playoff spot after missing first half of season thanks to a snowboarding accident, Harvick's farewell tour...
"demonstrate his remarkable wheel-to-wheel ability in the midfield, to everyone’s delight." Come on now, Lewis sucks at wheel to wheel racing and is actually a terrible racer.
There are too many newbies to watching F1 that have opinions when they have zero clue when watching the sport. "Widen the track!" But of course, there are plenty of drivers who didn't exceed track limits so why change? They're professionals, suck it up.
Bad look at Nascar having a rando win. Indycar still good, sad no motogp race.
Sir, I respectfully disagree. Lewis never managed to race well wheel to wheel when he did not have a performance advantage.
Alonso's comment on 'this guy can only start at the front and drive off' or something to that effect was SPOT ON. Another example of how much extra brain capacity he has while driving at 10/10ths.
My oldest saw a thumbnail of racing so we watched an F1 highlights reel and there's a non-zero chance I will have an F1 season watch pass in the future.
It was not exciting for me but he LOVED it.
I lost interest in F1 maybe 15 years ago, so the whole Hamilton era is a curiosity to me. He seems like the Drake of motorsport - makes sure you know all about his black heritage when it suits, but encourages you to forget that he comes from a privileged background that allowed him every chance to succeed
Apt observation. I really don't much care for either.
I concede that I am not intimately familiar with Hamilton's biography (and the British press is prone to hagiography), but how is he from a privileged background? His parents were divorced, he attended what was as best I can tell a fair-to-middling public Catholic school, and his father worked as many as four jobs simultaneously to support his racing. Granted, McLaren gave him a seat in the young driver program in 1998, but it's not as if Hamilton came from a wealthy family or was he the son of a professional racer who opened doors for him.
I'm no great fan of the man, but as best I can tell, he worked hard to get where he is.
Yeah, that's what I've understood regarding his background. White mother too, like Obama.
apparently the universe likes a blend...that remark got me banned from facebook for a couple weeks!
My father, a veterinarian who would point out the genetic shortcomings of particular pure breed dogs (pugs can't breathe, keeshonds & shepards get hip dysplasia), once said that a lot of multiracial people are attractive, that it's as though they have the best features of both groups.
Both Lewis and his father worked hard to get into the McLaren program. After that he was very much The Chosen One.
LeBron James' ticket was punched from the moment someone saw a kid in junior high with immense talent. Same with Wayne Gretsky. Same with Hamilton once his talent was spotted.
Michael Jordan, on the other, couldn't make the varsity team on his high school as a sophomore and had to work hard to improve his game. As a pro, he was known for almost inventing reasons to have a grudge against opponents so he'd be up for games.
I wonder what the Lewis Hamiltons, Wayne Gretskys and LeBron Jameses of the world would be like if they actually had to struggle as teens and young adults.
Who is arguing that Gretsky isn't the best? You are right on Lewis and LeBron. Nobody will ever think of them as better than Senna or Jordan.
Gretsky was talented and would have been a star in the original six, but was he as tough as Messier & LaFleur? Gretsky had both Marty McSorley and the NHL protecting him. Gordie Howe fought his own fights and stood up for his teammates. Howe pretty much considered Gretsky to be his heir as the greatest so I'll defer to his judgment but the NHL gave him special treatment just as the NBA let Michael Jordan take as many steps as he wanted, running to the basket from the free throw line on a layup.
Absolutely correct. If you touched Gretzky he would look right at the referee and the arm would go up. Lots of points obviously, which were a product of that era, but he was both soft and protected.
Lewis had a tough life as a kid. There's a reason he was estranged from his father as an adult.
I doubt it was intentional, but I resent being called a coward because I make choices for my kids that aren't "badass dad" approved. My son wasn't allowed to play football, even though I survived it with no [readily apparent, at least thus far] consequences. But I know people who weren't so lucky, and in my estimation, the risk didn't justify the reward. If anyone wants to call me a coward for that, well...go fuck yourself.
For the record, I called time on my son's football career as soon as he indicated a desire to go from flag to tackle. There's cowardly and then there's "can read a book of head injury statistics".
I called time on my boys' riding dirt bikes, and I still feel conflicted about it because on the one hand it kept me focused and out of other kinds of trouble during my teenaged years, but on the other hand I have brain damage that shows up on an MRI and I spend most days on the right side of the pain scale.
There’s an effton of daylight between saying no to football and saying yes to today’s bubble-wrap brigade. And while I suspect I’m, if anything, overcautious with my daughter, I find the safety patrol is far freer with unsolicited advice than the badass dads.
I have daughters so it’s a little bit different calculus and saves me from making difficult decisions. My oldest is pretty involved with competitive cheer, which also has a fairly high concussion risk especially for her position (backspot or base), but honestly, the health risks of not participating in competitive sports worries me much more than the risks of the sports. I’ve pushed my kids to try a little bit of everything (suburban common stuff anyways, not much motor sports here) and just let them choose what they like. I don’t care what you do, you just have to do something. I’ve gotten far more involved in competitive cheer than I ever thought possible or likely (and the stereotypes of the women involved are 100% accurate) but I wouldn’t trade the time spent with her for anything.
be a placekicker and cash in
There are more concussions from youth soccer than from football. I'm not saying football is safe. Actually, the most dangerous recreational activity for kids in terms of injuries is bicycle riding, I suppose from broken wrists and arms more than getting hit by cars. I guess that statistic is a bit like how pitbull enthusiasts like to point out that more people are bitten by Golden Retrievers than by any other breed.
Am I misremembering newspaper reports in the eighties that cited statistics as the basis for naming the Chihuahua as the most common biters? Perhaps that was from the Alsatian Appreciation Society 🤔
Most of the public doesn't understand per capita. Pits are literal baby killers and limb/face eaters making the pages of the NYP and Daily Mail.
The damned things are everywhere post covid: rescues of dubious origin, all teeth and muscle and outweighing their tattooed dogmoms.
It's not the dog, it's the owners <--- what every single pit bull owners says right before their dog kills a two year old.
I’ve two goldens myself. They’ve been attacked twice by other dogs. Both times pits with what I will best equate to white trash owners. Like most stereotypes, they end up being quite self fulfilling.
As for golden bites themselves, the dogs are like giant Teddy bears. Unfortunately that means people forget their boundaries - esp kids with pulling and poking etc. I’ve had to be quite careful accordingly as my one gets pretty nervous when smothered. A restrained warning nip however is different than an uncontrollable mauling from a very strong, high energy and low IQ dog.
The most dangerous animal in North America is a pit bull owned by a fat woman.
I'll sleep with my food when hiking in bear country and tempt fate on my bike but I cross the street when I see someone walking a pit bull
I'll be cautious around pit bulls but I won't go anywhere near a german shepard / wolf cross. My father refused to let wolf crosses in his vet hospital. Pit bulls may have a gene for aggression but they also have tens of thousands of years of domestication and probably have the companionability gene that dogs can have as well. Wolves are wild animals and they will eat you. I don't care if it's a reptile, a large cat, chimpanzee, or wolf crosses, "exotic" animals are not suitable as house pets.
My nephew played O Line In Div 1 football. Shot knees, concussions, $150K to fix his shoulder by the University Hospital about 2 years after graduating. When he could no longer be a starter his backup took over. His backup banked 32 million in the NFL. I'm glad my nephew wasn't NFL material. 6 ft 8 and 305 and not big enough.
They had him eyeballed in Jr High. Even then it always the management trying to get players that makes management look good for the next job. Jr High coaches want to be HS coaches. HS coaches want to be College coaches. SOME College coaches want to be NFL coaches.
As it unfortunately should be if you want to win, football is a use them up and spit them out game where the players are the most and least important part of the team.
I think the smart College coaches stay in College. His College coach went sideways to a school in another conference. Went to the NFL. Now back in college for a prestige coaching gig. If he got and gets the full amount of money in each contract he's probably grossed a 100 million bucks. Each time his words are "I love you guys. My heart is here. I've found a home". Until the next time.
No one really plays football for the love of the game when at a high level.
The risk with restricting your kids from dangerous activities is that it’ll backfire on you and they’ll find those pursuits irresistible. Happened to me to some extent where my dad wouldn’t let us play hockey or ride dirt bikes despite owning a couple of bikes himself when younger. When I eventually got behind the wheel, I’m not proud to admit that I was a bit of an idiot. Lots of accidents, high insurance rates, and fucked up neck muscles from more than one whiplash.
I feel like you’re better off introducing your kids to action sports and pointing out the risks so they are aware and can make better decisions on their own.
I wholeheartedly understand this as someone who wasn't allowed to do much of anything as a kid. Made a lot more sense when I got older. Kept me in one piece so far and I'm in no rush to get all banged up, but I am keen on racing and getting on two wheels.
It sounds like I’m slagging my dad, but I do get where he was coming from. He had dumped his bikes a couple of times and my mom had been onboard for one of those events with remnants of roadrash still on display when I was a kid.
He also more than compensated for his conservativeness by taking us skiing A LOT where we were set free to do as we wished in the mountains. We always had a great time and somehow managed to escape serious injury after multiple trips per year for our childhood and our teens. Not such a bad dude!
My entire adult life is a consequence of what I wasn’t allowed to do. I’ve only upheld a few reservations and I’m still a little upset with myself for doing so. Life is meant to be lived. You just have to mitigate where you can and hope for the best.
Everything is risk/reward. Plastic trophy or shot at the big time with million$ & hot babes? For dads the same: work in a coal mine to put a roof over their heads and food on the table vs weekend warrior for shits and giggles?
We teach children how to deal with risk by putting them in controlled-risk situations. Cross the street? Look both ways, twice.
Watch what the traffic is actually doing, not what the traffic signals say it SHOULD be doing.
Imagine 1988 Senna in today’s F1 in the Red Bull.
Connor Moore did a pretty good job summing up the race:
https://youtu.be/WowKih9xDxg
I like to imagine a 2023 Fernando Alonso in a 2023 Red Bull
The van't Hoff crash teased the armchair track designers out of their cages to cry "Spa is unsafe" and wanting to do major renovation of the course because there was practically no runoff where the accident happened. Fuck in-car signaling, let's bring the Cat D9s to this legendary track. (To be honest the FIA's system is a hunk of shit, demonstrated by last year's Japanese GP where Seb's incar clearly showed a green flag as he blasted by the rescue tractor, we didn't see Pierre Gasly's light but he's sure it wasn't red.)
The problem is, even if not related to each other, Spa is 0 for 2 in just a few years. This is a "Something must be done!!!" situation. If Spa and/or the race organizers don't at a minimum pay lip service to this, the "System" in the outside world will. Because these were young men and not "Professionals" like F1 but just young people, someone will say "Think of the children".
Luckily, my girlfriend is working for a HPDE company at Spa. The F1 ceremony was stopped for the obligatory 55sec moment of silence. Next weekend the Spa24h race too. But they ran it. Spa just spent millions on the track; motorsports are dangerous - you could even die on an open lapping day, deal with it.
The only thing I'd contend slightly is Piastri needs to be given some time to get up to speed in F1. Norris is special no doubt...
Also I don't know if you know by Norris's car had upgrades that Piastri's didn't.
Lewis should really just hang up his helmet. The Un-gracefulness is disgraceful.
Piastri is the best rookie in the field, and Lando is reputed to be at the Leclerc level in terms of pace (would love to find out for sure).
Austria is also a track that suits both Lando and the McLaren historically; the team is *hopeful* that his turn of pace isn’t a fluke.
Yep, we are witnessing true genius at work behind the wheel of the #1 RB.
The race overall was the best in a while with some good mid-field battles. Yay for Chuckie bringing it home in second, and kudos to Carlos for an astounding single lap effort in Q2. Very impressive.
Tsunami didn’t look so hot this weekend, but Christian should move Checo to AT and promote Yuki to RB for the remainder of the season. I think he’s ready.
Good solid racing at Mid Ohio. Palou deserves a shot at F1.
Chicago was a gong show in the wet, but SVG rocked his NASCAR debut. Looked like the rest of the field were just video game blocker cars. Very composed when interviewed after the race and firm on his plan for another year racing in NZ/Australia before a potential move to the US.
We watched the MidO highlights as well. "Son, I am internet acquainted with a guy who lives right by that racetrack."
Not impressive to him.
Our house was repeatedly featured on the TV coverage.
How near are your backwoods to China Beach? I was amusing myself with the thought of you handing an icy Maker's Mark to Simon once he climbed out.
It's about a 500 yard walk from our property line.
Oh well. I guess that would be a long reach.
Well we did not go racing this weekend or see any races so not much to contribute to the conversation. I was at the Cadillac LaSalle Club Grand National in Albuquerque New Mexico last week. Saturday evening I returned to the hotel early from the awards banquet so that I could get on the road early. Sunday morning at 3:00am MST we pointed the Silverado east on I-40 (Memo to file, the speed limit on rural interstates and four lane secondary roads out west is 75, but the normal speed is 85). The temperature as we crossed the mountains east of the city.was 42 degrees. Arrived in Amarillo and the temperature was 85 at 8:00 CST. Headed down FM 287 to DFW and when we stopped at Buc'ees in Denton north of the city it was 104 degrees. Talk about a temperature change. Memo to file: Texas did a great job rebuilding the 635 belt way on the north side of the city, it is a work of road building art. Texas is ianow rebuilding the 635 belt way on the east side of the city it is more of a Picasso. Then it east on I-20 to Shreveport Louisiana and I-49 to Baton Rouge to pick up I-10. Arrived at the welcome to Florida rest area at 5:00am EST. Had to catch a two hour nap even if the humidity was 100 percent could not drive any further after 26 hours behind the wheel. Celebrating seven decades next year (someone asked me during judging the cars on Saturday asked me how old I am and I said take a guess, he said 50-55, Sorry Jack, but he could not believe I am 69) and can still motor down the highway. I am reminded of something David Berry wrote when talking about his Greatest Generation parents. "Yes they drank to much, they ate to much red meet, they smoked to much, and if they had taken care of themselves they might have lived 10 years longer, but they would not have enjoyed life as much, and that counts for something".....
I do think you look younger than your years for sure!
Great story!
As a member of the Seven Decade Club I can tell you it ain't bad, depending...
I'm about your age and these days it's hard for me to do more than 500-600 miles in a day but I can remember when I could drive 600 miles to NYC pretty much non stop with no need of stimulants save for maybe a little road head.
Speaking of which, the old, "Honey, I"m having trouble staying awake, how about a little help?" routing does work, and it is an E-ticket ride, but it's a ticket you can only cash in once with the same woman. Or so I've been told.
Sir, this is a Wendy's
I tell people caution genes run in my family. My parents put seatbelts on the '57 chevy in '60 or '61. We had the first Peugeot station wagon in France with rear shoulder belts. My father, an academic economist, solved the simple topological problem for the men at the factory so that they could install them. I'm virtually certain that none of my siblings four children ever drove drunk. I took my niece for flying lessons when she was 7, because I knew there'd be an instructor who could take over at any moment, and there was nothing she could have bumped into in the sky--unlike the very few people to whom I gave driving lessons to, one of whom scared the crap out of me, doing something stupid, and then said, "You're not a bold creature are you?" (an English woman--remembering her saying it in that accent is, in retrospect, quite humorous)
And I never would have risked any kid of my air jumping a distance on a bicycle or done it myself. I DID ride a bicycle from Seattle to Boston, but I was wearing Bell hard-shelled helmet serial #7022 (this was 1975, they'd just come out), along with a rear view mirror that attached to my glasses, and I'd thought deeply about the risk, and concluded that it was very unlikely that I'd come to grief. And after I finished that trip, figuring there would be a lot of cycling in my future (but no races), I wrote an article on bicycle safety.
The only person I know of in my extended family who took more of a risk than I would take died a couple of months ago at 92, of leukemia. He's one of two people to have ever ascended Everest via the West Ridge--that in 1963. He was very careful there, as was the entire US expedition that he was on. Yet one person died in an avalanche, a fairly common occurrence on snow covered mountains. His partner on the West Ridge also died in an avalanche, about 15 years after the Everest expedition, on Rainier. Here's my favorite of a number of obits for him. https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/remembering-tom-hornbein-everest-pioneer/
I crashed jumping a bike recently. I deliberately went off the side of a 1/4 pipe at a skate park and went face first into the concrete deck. I had a helmet but the way I hit I think someone with a less hard head probably would have been knocked out. Unlike our host this* is not a habit of mine and I do not recommend it, but compared to the alternative of not trying to go for some sweet air it was probably worth the risk.
*edit "this" being putting myself in the hospital
I have never regretted any crash that didn't permanently affect my ability to ride afterwards.
I regret, in roughly this order; not landing correctly, not setting up my fork correctly, not wearing a chin protector, not wearing gloves, not wearing more pads.
My friend suggested I take the money spent on this racing hobby and invest it in a 4plex to collect rent on.
I don't want to be a slumlord I want pretend to be a racing driver.
Reminded me of the article on the insurance website about being about it. "I’m here to be a racer. To run the fastest machinery I can(not) afford, as close to the limit as I can manage. If I crash the SR8, I’ll no doubt regret my choice, doubly so since I won’t be able to replace it. But this is life, not the Life board game that I played as a child. You don’t add up all your investments at the end and declare a winner."
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Here’s what Dr. Helmut Marko and Christian Horner should do to (1) solve their driver issues and (2) give other F1 teams heartburn:
0-Dutch Cherub Nyck de Vries is sent back to Formula E or WEC with immediate effect
1-In the vacated AlphaTauri, the remaining ~13 races of the season are shared among (a) Danny Ric, (b) Liam Lawson, (c) Alex Palou; Danny Ric should be “race fit” and the most prepared, so let him have a go today, then Lawson, then have Palou finish up the season after he wins his second IndyCar title (Zak Brown can have a taste of his own medicine and lose Palou as a test driver)
2-The winner of the “shoutout” gets the second seat next to Yuki Tsunoda for 2024
3-At the end of this season, Helmut sends Checo back to Mexico where he can enjoy a lengthy, Tequila-fueled siesta
4-The second Red Bull seat will go to the final boss, the ultimate trickster, perhaps the only person who could hang with Max over the course of a title fight - Fernando, who would gladly leave the Strollercoaster for a final title tilt
5-When Fernando is ready to retire, he can slide right into either the Helmut Marko role (who is ~80 years old now) or the Christian Horner seat, who will by that time be ready to succeed Domenicali as the F1 CRH CEO; recall that Horner is a close Bernie ally, and that Bernie still exercises considerable FIA influence
Love it; Checo’s upcoming Tequila-fueled siesta!
Also like your Fernando plan….
There has been talk of Seb performing such a role (the Marko role) at Red Bull, and I have no doubt that he’d be a wise, thoughtful sounding board for the team.
But Fernando lives for motor racing.
Fernando will race until he can no longer do so, and then he will be in the F1 paddock until F1 is no more, or he dies.
Interesting take on Seb's future. I agree he appears to be a thoughtful guy, but lately those thoughts have been geared towards the Green Fantasy of carbon reduction/elimination, renewable power generation, and some social justice sprinkled in. Seems like he gets bored easily too. I can't really imagine him doing a Niki Lauda as a wise elder statesman.
That may be an act / guilty conscience (the Green Fantasy).
You mean "No Tar Sands" and "Save the Bees" was fake? My life is ruined.
Give Bees a Chance!
Man, I want to see Fernando mixing it up at the sharp end of the grid!
Keep him behind a wheel as long as possible.
Danny Ric sucks the big one. If DeVries should be in formula E, Ric should be racing holdens somewhere in the middle of Australia.
If they gave him 3-4 races next to Tsunoda, we’d know if the McLaren period was an aberration, or his new normal.
Recall that he was very strong in the latter stages of 2020 in the Renault.
If he performed well, he’d be able to reignite his career; if not, everyone would know that, yes, he was fit for a lower tier series like Indycar, NASCAR, or Supercars.
He isn't good enough for Indycar, NASCAR is where he should go. But yeah he was decent in the Renault, but outside of that 1 year, he's been middle tier at best.
In 2020, he finished 5th in the WDC and put in profoundly impressive performances at Spa, Silverstone, and Imola. Then he won in 2021 in the McLaren at Monza.
He’s definitely good enough for Indycar - that’s where open wheel careers go to die.
After lingering for an appropriate period...
hear, hear on Alonso going to Red Bull.
Verstappen/Alonso at RBR would be a repeat of Senna/Prost at McLaren. That would be no bad thing.
Ready to sign that petition immediately.
The goal from the team POV would be for Max to learn everything the Final Boss has to teach the youngster.
If Fernando could beat Max - what an achievement for Fernando!
If Fernando couldn’t beat Max - that’s ok, who else would even try to do that in his shoes?
It certainly wouldn't be a drubbing like Checo is getting now.
The benefits would be manifold:
They’d have the best driver lineup since the Senna-Prost era, if not ever, so they should be able to win the WCC with a there or thereabouts car.
They’d be able to install Fernando in a political, tactical role as soon as he retired (and yes, he could still skip Monaco for Indy). The other “top” teams are lacking in terms of leadership: Ferrari is very weak, and Aston Martin has the boss’s kid. Mercedes has Toto, for now.
Wow! I love all of those suggestions. Best alliteration of the day too: "title tilt."
He's consonancly in the upper echelons of the Alliterati.
There doesn't seem to be such a word as consonancly but here's some Alliterati fer ya:
https://issuu.com/alliteratimagazine/docs/alliterati_issue_7/1
I was reading a review of the new Rolls Royce Spectre Milk Float last night and thought of an apt alliterative descriptor for Rolls:
“Purveyor par excellence of plutocratic, puissant peregrination”
That’s perhaps a bit too much puffery, however.
Pissah!
A Bostonianism meaning excellent, often paired thusly: "wicked pissah."
Etymology: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pissah
Almost impossible to talk about open wheel racing without acknowledging Fangio or at the very least thinking about him.
Every time a guy comes along who is dominant, he seems to set the bar for preparation and professionalism a little higher.
Fangio did it.
Clark did it.
Stewart did it.
Lauda did it.
Prost did it.
Senna did it.
Schumacher did it.
Vettel did it.
Max is doing it.
I know you lead the Hamilton hate club but leaving him off this list is so damn petty. His numbers are astounding, and rightfully raised the bar before Max will shatter them in a few more 25-race seasons.
I'll leave LH44 off the list as well since I don't think he did anything to advance the state of the art. Just a safe pair of hands for the best car.
After years of thought on the matter, however, I *would* rate Hamilton at least equal to and likely above Vettel. Lewis has a knack for delivering every time he really needs to. Vettel too often fell short.
Senna raised the bar for raw "hands" talent behind the wheel. Michael raised the bar for preparation, practice, and team leadership. Sebastian and Lewis were worse drivers than Senna and worse team leaders than Michael. Listening to the radio of Lewis and Max makes the difference plain. Lewis complains about the car where Max offers detailed feedback. Max drives strategy while Lewis simply follows Toto's lead.
There's a chance to Lewis to really support George's development the way Schumacher did with Rosberg but I just don't think he is that kind of person.
Hmmm... Interesting.
What Sebastian did - perhaps to his detriment - was raise the level of debriefs and feedback.
Even during the twilight years at Aston Martin, he - and consequently his engineers - would be in the paddock hours and hours (sometimes as many as 6 hours) later than other teams going through minute, detailed discussion about every permutation of the car’s performance settings throughout the race track.
He did things the hard way, like Nico Rosberg.
Nico Rosberg has a degree in engineering (I think) and would provide very SPECIFIC feedback for how to set the car up in terms of WHICH knob to turn and how much... He and Schumacher were a phenomenal pairing in terms of getting the car to 99% for every situation faster than any other team in the paddock. Then when the car itself became competitive, arrived 'Sir' 44, and even then, Rosberg did the bulk of the technical feedback and setup and Mr. 'They penalised me because I'm black' would go on an copy the setup as a starting point... ALL his championships in the Mercedes cars are of lower quality because of this, and no one can say anything to prove otherwise.
To each their own. Outside of the wet-weather driving and adaptability to win so many regulations (like Alonso) I found Lewis to have a mastery of the (rather unpleasant) flavor of modern F1 which was a balancing act between tire management and raw speed. Maybe this isn't a pure form of racing, but he did it better than anyone I've ever seen, since Prost, during his heights from 2016-2021. As for raising a bar, I think you might be a bit too myopic here, F1 acts like a showcase of gladiators but it's actually more of a team sport than any, and your ability to "change culture" is as much linked to the current state of engineering as it is your ability to turn a wheel. Senna didn't raise any bar of talent because I still don't think anyone has been more talented than Fangio or Clark, and either way there's no way of knowing if he was or if he just said enough half-spiritual, half-broken english in the media pen to make us feel like he was more interesting than the rest of the grid. As for Michael, he was the right man at the right time. Smart enough to take Sportscar racing knowledge to F1, with a dream team of Byrne, Brawn, Todt, and a borderline-psychotic Luca Di Montezemolo shoveling money into this F1 project to realize a dream.
Do you recall the stories of multiple world champion Michael Schumacher shunning his young family and all of his riches during the winter off season to live an ascetic life in Enzo’s old house in Maranello while he tested all day, every day at Fiorano?
Why didn’t Irv the Swerve do that?
What has Lewis done in terms of preparation and professionalism?
He doesn’t work in the simulator. He doesn’t embed himself with the team. He doesn’t even wear the team’s apparel when arriving at the track. He is the most selfish person in the entire paddock.
If you want to criticize my arguments, you should have some of your own to make in response.
Well, he HAS been a lion for gay and trans rights at every single venue where gay and trans rights are the aligned policy of the government and corporations involved. Nobody has ever worked harder to raise awareness of this issue in places as diverse as the USA, UK, and France.
One thing he has actually done: maintain his performance levels after switching to a suboptimal vegan diet.
Arguably the most impressive thing he's done. Most vegans look like they've been interning in a labour camp.
Don't forget advocating for thugs shot by the police in the US during attempted arrests that turned violent by wearing a T shirt.
While I am loathe to admit it, I did watch the final half of the NASCRAP race in Chicago, and apparently about 5 million other people did too.
They should expand / modify the course a bit (ideally you’d want to use more of Michigan Ave, especially the Mag Mile, and run a bit on LSD. This would only be possible if the city were willing to embrace the event fully.
Then run it as a tandem event with Indycar, and make it a double header for both series. One would race during the day on Saturday and then during prime time on Sunday, and the other series would take the alternating slots.
It was a shitshow but it's the first time I've turned on Nascar in years and I'd watch again.
Same for me.
First NASCAR I've watched since they found that noose hanging from a garage door. Hopefully they've got their horrific racism under control now.
It reminded me of the old days at Riverside when so many drivers would essentially straight shot the esses. Those walls were a bit more unforgiving. Maybe F1 should install them and just be done with it.
My friend suggested similar for Detroit: Extend the and pick up a Cup race. I think the two series could benefit from a few more shared weekends.
The final 10 laps were some of the best racing of the season. That Haley vs Van Gisbergen shoot out was very fun to watch. SVG is fantastic, and I can't wait for him to run full time in Cup in 2025.
It has been a very entertaining season, with some good story lines! The Return of Kyle Busch, Elliot's chase for a playoff spot after missing first half of season thanks to a snowboarding accident, Harvick's farewell tour...
There's crazy and then there's crazy. Silver Kings Hard Enduro 2023- Silver Course (A Class)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk5by0bLDyY
"demonstrate his remarkable wheel-to-wheel ability in the midfield, to everyone’s delight." Come on now, Lewis sucks at wheel to wheel racing and is actually a terrible racer.
There are too many newbies to watching F1 that have opinions when they have zero clue when watching the sport. "Widen the track!" But of course, there are plenty of drivers who didn't exceed track limits so why change? They're professionals, suck it up.
Bad look at Nascar having a rando win. Indycar still good, sad no motogp race.
I'm pretty sure the Lewis comment was what we call "sarcasm."
Lewis is better than F1 average in wheel to wheel IMO, although he is hugely sensitive to (his feelings about) the car's performance
Sir, I respectfully disagree. Lewis never managed to race well wheel to wheel when he did not have a performance advantage.
Alonso's comment on 'this guy can only start at the front and drive off' or something to that effect was SPOT ON. Another example of how much extra brain capacity he has while driving at 10/10ths.
I know it looks like SVG is a random to the domestic viewers but he is a highly qualified racer.
I am very happy to see cross pollination between Supercars and NASCAR.
Excellent, Jack, and thanks for the kick in the ass.
“There’s not much difference between his and I’s.”
Noted American IndyCar driver comparing car setups with his teammate’s.
More observations at my Pathfinder Doorhandle: https://bimmerfan739.substack.com/p/theres-not-much-difference-between?sd=pf