I have one of both, a modern but not automatic Speedmaster Moonwatch and one of these Seagulls. The difference in operation of the cam-and-lever Omega and the column-wheel Venus is night and day. I was very positively surprised by the little cheapie. I will be selling it soon because for some unexplainable reason I've bought the bigger case, and the 40mm Seagull looks too clunky next to the Speedmaster. I will get a 38mm Chinese to better match... it used to be a sign of excellence of how _small_ you could make a watch.
On a different but relevant note, I was recently on a watchmaking course since I have some older pieces that need servicing, and who the heck has $500 to spend on making a $50 "Wehrmachtwerk" work again? Well, the topic of old vs new came up inevitably and the old(er) expert told us something interesting. You look at some of these vintage movements that only have 10 or maybe 13 rubies, the rest of the train is running in steel bushings since 60 years. Wear? Minimal. How is this possible? Well, the Swiss manufacturers in the 50s were using the best materials, full stop. Tiny pivots (talking about .1mm) were hand burnished, bushings reamed to work-harden them so they don't wear. Nowadays the pivots are chemically hardened that gives an almost glass-hard surface, but it also makes them brittle. So you bump your sparkly new Rolex against a doorframe and it has the same chance of breaking its Paraflex-cushioned balance as a 1955 Junghans that had the basicest of basic shock protection.
BTW, did you get a GS maneki-neko in Ginza? Or just posted the photo to stories?
And received the kitty cat as a gift. I am not ashamed to say that the watch was an impulse purchase and I am now selling guitars like a madman to pay it off.
If your Speedmaster is 38mm, it is a "Reduced," and isn't considered a Moonwatch, which are the 42mm Professional models. Although, I thought the Reduced Speedmasters are automatic, so I'm a bit confused by your post.
I got my measurements mixed up, it's 42mm but the case style of the 40mm Tianjin makes it seem larger, than the Omega (it definitely looks bigger on the wrist)
That's true. That is because of the asymmetrical crown guard design on the right side of the Speedmaster case. In reality, they are less than 42mm without the crown guard.
It's a bit so-so. They polish and heat-treat the screws to this really nice peacock blue that stands out on a silver and bronze movement. What I don't like is the decoration that should be Swiss stripes (Côtes de Genève) is more like snailing that is stamped onto the bridges.
I have one of the 'open heart' Orients and I get that they had to give it a display caseback to show it off, but the bare sandblasted movement is a bit disappointing.
I don’t think the skx ever came with the 4r36, I think that only came with the 7S26 movement, but many modders have been installing the 4r 36, or the nh35/36 movements,. The st 19 is no longer sold to the microbrands unless they commit to 10, thousand movements. So micro brands won’t be using the st19 anymore.
I have bought seiko 5’s because they do have the 7S26 movement in them, something I find a little bit anachronistic and charming, and just ordered an actual seiko turtle, Srpe93, which does have the 4r36 movement in it, as well as hardlex mineral crystal.
its unquestionably a pretty thing and the throwback mechanical guts are a treat to observe but the real mindblower is the way low price you picked it up
ill take the seiko 5 (apparently macvsog used them in period and its one reason i think theyre cool)
i know a lot of people who were looking at this election very closely and deciding their future based on the outcome. im still blown away by the shortsightedness and stupidity of people who voted liberal who could very well have not done so if trudeau was still leading the party. every single province voted more likely to leave if the libs won and yet somehow they did anyway. quebec has been threatening separation for decades (i dont think they even know what they would do if they had their way lol) and now its looking like they wont be the first ones to do it but i wager that if they go quebec will follow.
the coming years will be interesting in the worst ways
Appreciate the review! Seen these off and on but never felt compelled to purchase one until now. The blue dialed 42mm model seems to be calling my name.
I've a lot of respect for the heritage of the Seagull with no qualms at all regarding a Chinese product built with respect for the tool rather than designed to fund Jeff Bezos' findom and could be tempted to find a spot in the watchbox next to my collection of 5s but for one singular reason I can't get past; I hate numeric indices and they apparently don't make a 1963 without them.
Also alas, as beautiful as I find Jack's new field watch, the deep green with brown leather, those big ass numbers ruin the dial. Honestly though nothing hits it for me more than the SKX007. I wish I had bought 5 more made in Japan before they went out of production when you could get them for $300, those would be the only watches I need. Now I wear mine more sparingly and daily an SSK001 with the bezel dialed in for wherever F1 next takes the circus.
I agree with you on respecting the company and the product - I admire that this is a product made in China, by a Chinese company, for the Chinese market. It's not an "American" company outsourcing its production.
There are quite a few Skx homages out there, vary in price from mid three’s to a hundred, all seem to include sapphire, nh35 or 36, better bracelets chapter rings that line up, and the one from Long Island watch actually is designed to use genuine Skx parts, this is what Seiko should have done.
Marc’s Islanders are manufactured in China and he is losing his mind over tariffs. To be fair, all the retailers are losing their minds over tariffs and I have my SKX on an Uncle Seiko Oyster bracelet that was probably made in China so maybe I doth protest too much but as Jack has pointed out, there’s an appeal to a watch with an in house movement and I prefer to not jacking (no, not that one) it up very much.
Yep, agreed, America sort of stepped out of manufacturing watches, and China is producing them, a lot cheaper than what they can be produced in the west, but why did the American government decide to outsource their constituents jobs to the far east, jobs from every industry? China undercuts most of the world.
Global fascism merging government and corporations has enabled a new aristocracy on the backs of slaves uneducated on liberty hoping Americans will just shut up and enjoy our weed and $400 80" viewing screens. Or something.
i agree and almost bought an islander. for me it's the provenance thing. i wanted a real skx even though the islander is an upgrade in many ways. the good news is that the price on used skx's has come back to earth. i have an skx that i upgraded with a new movement and an uncle seiko bracelet. all in it was $400 -$450.
I will eventually come across an skx, and perhaps mod it, but I don’t think I will change the 7s26, I find some charm in it for reasons that I can’t put in words.
The Island version is nicer by a lot than the AliExpress versions, and uses original seiko parts if you were so inclined to put them in, they feel like a quality piece, and Island only started selling them because Seiko dropped the ball.
I have a 30-ish y/o TAG Heuer, a 20 y/o Tissot, and maybe a 10 y/o Victronox (don’t remember if I got it as a 45th birthday present to myself), and I think all three of them are sitting with dead batteries, and one of the two big Swiss jobs might need a service, probably the TAG.
I don’t wear anything, haven’t since the end of the pandemic!
The reason that they have never leaked is not that they are Japanese: it is because you replace the batteries promptly. The loss of time indicates a discharged, but not dead, battery. The leaking happens after the battery gets very low (<1 V?) for a period of time: you, wisely, prevent that.
I posted this to encourage everyone to not leave discharged batteries inside devices for any significant period of time. Any devices not regularly used should have their batteries removed before storage.
I've not used them and left with totally discharged batteries for months/years now and then .
I've never had a Japanese battery leak, the Chinesium ones begin to leak after a month of going dead .
Japanese batteries also tend to last well over a year, I'm lucky to get 10 months out of Chinese batteries, why I made the effort to find Japanese made batteries .
Thirty years ago I chanced to pick up a cheap Chinese dead electric "railroad" style pocket watch, of course it only needed a new battery, I stopped carrying pocket watches in the late 1990's but this one still keeps perfect time and sits where I can look at it as I get dressed .
Peter O’Toole was on Carson once, and Johnny noticed he had a watch on each wrist, so he asked him about it. O’Toole answered matter-of-factly, as if it was clearly obvious —- “so I don’t waste time looking at the wrong wrist”
Sigh...counting down the days until my Samsung Galaxy smart watch fails and I can finally justify purchasing a REAL watch.
I appreciate that YOU appreciate the distinction between Chinese PRODUCTION and Chinese PRODUCTS. I bear no ill will toward homegrown products marketed to the world, no matter where that home is. Every country should aspire to compete in the global market, and do so successfully! And we should feel free to support whatever company does a good job with our hard-earned money!
I don't think I'll be dissuaded from making my first (and only) watch a Shinola, on entirely emotional grounds, but if I ever come into walking-around money maybe I'll make my second a Sea-Gull.
Or...get one for my son for his 18th birthday in a couple weeks! Need to class the lad up a bit.
No need to worry about what anyone says about Shinola, they make handsome watches and I own one. I find people either love them or hate them, and it mostly has to do with some liberties they took with marketing in the early days…
It’s a slippery slope, be careful… you’ll have more before you know it.
My Dad literally has a watch for every day of the week!
One, a Tissot, is the only one of note. He has a God-knows-how-old Seiko quartz thing, and the rest are who knows! (He probably should have the Tissot serviced next time it needs a battery; he doesn’t know about that part of Swiss watch ownership.)
2 cars & 3 watches is enough for me to mess with. My daughter adopted the nice little Braun I bought 30+ years ago. that left me with a stainless Omega connie and a Shinola, which was *plenty*, until Jack started his screwinaround , again.
I have one of both, a modern but not automatic Speedmaster Moonwatch and one of these Seagulls. The difference in operation of the cam-and-lever Omega and the column-wheel Venus is night and day. I was very positively surprised by the little cheapie. I will be selling it soon because for some unexplainable reason I've bought the bigger case, and the 40mm Seagull looks too clunky next to the Speedmaster. I will get a 38mm Chinese to better match... it used to be a sign of excellence of how _small_ you could make a watch.
On a different but relevant note, I was recently on a watchmaking course since I have some older pieces that need servicing, and who the heck has $500 to spend on making a $50 "Wehrmachtwerk" work again? Well, the topic of old vs new came up inevitably and the old(er) expert told us something interesting. You look at some of these vintage movements that only have 10 or maybe 13 rubies, the rest of the train is running in steel bushings since 60 years. Wear? Minimal. How is this possible? Well, the Swiss manufacturers in the 50s were using the best materials, full stop. Tiny pivots (talking about .1mm) were hand burnished, bushings reamed to work-harden them so they don't wear. Nowadays the pivots are chemically hardened that gives an almost glass-hard surface, but it also makes them brittle. So you bump your sparkly new Rolex against a doorframe and it has the same chance of breaking its Paraflex-cushioned balance as a 1955 Junghans that had the basicest of basic shock protection.
BTW, did you get a GS maneki-neko in Ginza? Or just posted the photo to stories?
Pinned because of the comparison insight.
While in Japan I bought the Atera Valley
https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/collections/slga025g
And received the kitty cat as a gift. I am not ashamed to say that the watch was an impulse purchase and I am now selling guitars like a madman to pay it off.
the irony here is you encouraged my impulse purchase of a GS Snowflake while I was in Japan.
I thank you for it, though, because it's a beautiful watch, and it came with the maneki-neko.
I regret neither your Spring Drive nor mine!
Love that face color
If your Speedmaster is 38mm, it is a "Reduced," and isn't considered a Moonwatch, which are the 42mm Professional models. Although, I thought the Reduced Speedmasters are automatic, so I'm a bit confused by your post.
I got my measurements mixed up, it's 42mm but the case style of the 40mm Tianjin makes it seem larger, than the Omega (it definitely looks bigger on the wrist)
That's true. That is because of the asymmetrical crown guard design on the right side of the Speedmaster case. In reality, they are less than 42mm without the crown guard.
Good stuff, thank you!
Should I come into enough disposable income to justify it, I'd have the Seiko, no question about it.
As a fan of display backs I like the size and decoration.
It's a bit so-so. They polish and heat-treat the screws to this really nice peacock blue that stands out on a silver and bronze movement. What I don't like is the decoration that should be Swiss stripes (Côtes de Genève) is more like snailing that is stamped onto the bridges.
I mean, it doesn't match my De Ville display back 8900 movement, but it's a lot more than you get with, say, a $400 Orient.
I have one of the 'open heart' Orients and I get that they had to give it a display caseback to show it off, but the bare sandblasted movement is a bit disappointing.
I’ve got too many watches, but my girlfriend is Chinese, so I guess I’ve got to buy one. It does have a great backstory. Curse you, Jack!
I had a similar thought, but voiced it as, "Goddammit, Jack!"
I don’t think the skx ever came with the 4r36, I think that only came with the 7S26 movement, but many modders have been installing the 4r 36, or the nh35/36 movements,. The st 19 is no longer sold to the microbrands unless they commit to 10, thousand movements. So micro brands won’t be using the st19 anymore.
I have bought seiko 5’s because they do have the 7S26 movement in them, something I find a little bit anachronistic and charming, and just ordered an actual seiko turtle, Srpe93, which does have the 4r36 movement in it, as well as hardlex mineral crystal.
True... the SSK GMT pictured, however, is a 4R34.
Correct
just had my skx upgraded to an nh36 by a guy on ebay. i'm really happy with it. it's running about +/- :03 a day.
its unquestionably a pretty thing and the throwback mechanical guts are a treat to observe but the real mindblower is the way low price you picked it up
ill take the seiko 5 (apparently macvsog used them in period and its one reason i think theyre cool)
They are definitely a legacy movement.
My seiko 5 has been on job sites and plant shutdowns all over the country with me. They're worth having even if one doesn't have a colt commando
given the option id rather take the xm177
Speed, read this today and I thought if you had not seen it you would find it interesting:
https://www.thefp.com/p/this-week-in-canada-self-deportations-throuples-carney-antisemitism
that tracks
i know a lot of people who were looking at this election very closely and deciding their future based on the outcome. im still blown away by the shortsightedness and stupidity of people who voted liberal who could very well have not done so if trudeau was still leading the party. every single province voted more likely to leave if the libs won and yet somehow they did anyway. quebec has been threatening separation for decades (i dont think they even know what they would do if they had their way lol) and now its looking like they wont be the first ones to do it but i wager that if they go quebec will follow.
the coming years will be interesting in the worst ways
im definitely getting out of here
You can still move into my garage if you want.
thank you
i may take you up on for a night that depending on where you are and where im going
Heck, if it's only a night or two you can sleep on our couch inside. We have air mattresses, too, but you'd have to put up with a Paw Patrol quilt...
thats far better than i could have asked for
thanks heaps
Appreciate the review! Seen these off and on but never felt compelled to purchase one until now. The blue dialed 42mm model seems to be calling my name.
The blue dial is pretty; I was both disappointed and relieved that the gorgeous bronze moonphase with the green dial is sold out.
I showed up JUST too late for that one, it would have been my choice.
I clicked 'notify me when available' because I have almost no self-control.
Would you mind notifying ME when they notify YOU
sure thing
Good read, comrade.
读得不错, 同志
("read well, comrade," or "dú de bù cuò, tóng zhì," meaning the experience was enjoyable and worthwhile.)
I've a lot of respect for the heritage of the Seagull with no qualms at all regarding a Chinese product built with respect for the tool rather than designed to fund Jeff Bezos' findom and could be tempted to find a spot in the watchbox next to my collection of 5s but for one singular reason I can't get past; I hate numeric indices and they apparently don't make a 1963 without them.
Also alas, as beautiful as I find Jack's new field watch, the deep green with brown leather, those big ass numbers ruin the dial. Honestly though nothing hits it for me more than the SKX007. I wish I had bought 5 more made in Japan before they went out of production when you could get them for $300, those would be the only watches I need. Now I wear mine more sparingly and daily an SSK001 with the bezel dialed in for wherever F1 next takes the circus.
I agree with you on respecting the company and the product - I admire that this is a product made in China, by a Chinese company, for the Chinese market. It's not an "American" company outsourcing its production.
There are quite a few Skx homages out there, vary in price from mid three’s to a hundred, all seem to include sapphire, nh35 or 36, better bracelets chapter rings that line up, and the one from Long Island watch actually is designed to use genuine Skx parts, this is what Seiko should have done.
Marc’s Islanders are manufactured in China and he is losing his mind over tariffs. To be fair, all the retailers are losing their minds over tariffs and I have my SKX on an Uncle Seiko Oyster bracelet that was probably made in China so maybe I doth protest too much but as Jack has pointed out, there’s an appeal to a watch with an in house movement and I prefer to not jacking (no, not that one) it up very much.
Yep, agreed, America sort of stepped out of manufacturing watches, and China is producing them, a lot cheaper than what they can be produced in the west, but why did the American government decide to outsource their constituents jobs to the far east, jobs from every industry? China undercuts most of the world.
Global fascism merging government and corporations has enabled a new aristocracy on the backs of slaves uneducated on liberty hoping Americans will just shut up and enjoy our weed and $400 80" viewing screens. Or something.
i agree and almost bought an islander. for me it's the provenance thing. i wanted a real skx even though the islander is an upgrade in many ways. the good news is that the price on used skx's has come back to earth. i have an skx that i upgraded with a new movement and an uncle seiko bracelet. all in it was $400 -$450.
I will eventually come across an skx, and perhaps mod it, but I don’t think I will change the 7s26, I find some charm in it for reasons that I can’t put in words.
The Island version is nicer by a lot than the AliExpress versions, and uses original seiko parts if you were so inclined to put them in, they feel like a quality piece, and Island only started selling them because Seiko dropped the ball.
It's the Ural of watches ...
Paging nate
That is a great looking watch. Don't wear one myself but I love your writing about them.
Hear, hear!
I have a 30-ish y/o TAG Heuer, a 20 y/o Tissot, and maybe a 10 y/o Victronox (don’t remember if I got it as a 45th birthday present to myself), and I think all three of them are sitting with dead batteries, and one of the two big Swiss jobs might need a service, probably the TAG.
I don’t wear anything, haven’t since the end of the pandemic!
"dead batteries": dead batteries almost always leak
"I don’t wear anything, haven’t since the end of the pandemic!"
This is interesting in the context of Wednesday's discussion: have you considered toning it down by wearing at least a fur suit?
I use Japanese made batteries in my old electric wristwatch, they've never leaked, the watch begins to loose time when it wants a new battery .
-Nate
The reason that they have never leaked is not that they are Japanese: it is because you replace the batteries promptly. The loss of time indicates a discharged, but not dead, battery. The leaking happens after the battery gets very low (<1 V?) for a period of time: you, wisely, prevent that.
I posted this to encourage everyone to not leave discharged batteries inside devices for any significant period of time. Any devices not regularly used should have their batteries removed before storage.
Well ;
I've not used them and left with totally discharged batteries for months/years now and then .
I've never had a Japanese battery leak, the Chinesium ones begin to leak after a month of going dead .
Japanese batteries also tend to last well over a year, I'm lucky to get 10 months out of Chinese batteries, why I made the effort to find Japanese made batteries .
Thirty years ago I chanced to pick up a cheap Chinese dead electric "railroad" style pocket watch, of course it only needed a new battery, I stopped carrying pocket watches in the late 1990's but this one still keeps perfect time and sits where I can look at it as I get dressed .
-Nate
OK; you've pretty much sold me on Japanese batteries.
I have been trying desperately to avoid becoming a watch guy. This is not helping.
As someone who has bought three in the past six weeks - ALL of them because of Jack - I am right there with you.
edit: maybe four, because I have the Seagull open in another tab...
DO IT
DO IT
Jack, I am shocked, Chuck S is calling out for help. It is not helpful to encourage him to jump off the ledge….
Jack is nothing if not an enabler.
that's fine, because I am as well.
Lmao😂
I'm not his sponsor in Watches Anonymous, I'm not responsible for his choices!
Time waits for no one!
Peter O’Toole was on Carson once, and Johnny noticed he had a watch on each wrist, so he asked him about it. O’Toole answered matter-of-factly, as if it was clearly obvious —- “so I don’t waste time looking at the wrong wrist”
Resistance is futile =8-) .
-Nate
Sigh...counting down the days until my Samsung Galaxy smart watch fails and I can finally justify purchasing a REAL watch.
I appreciate that YOU appreciate the distinction between Chinese PRODUCTION and Chinese PRODUCTS. I bear no ill will toward homegrown products marketed to the world, no matter where that home is. Every country should aspire to compete in the global market, and do so successfully! And we should feel free to support whatever company does a good job with our hard-earned money!
I don't think I'll be dissuaded from making my first (and only) watch a Shinola, on entirely emotional grounds, but if I ever come into walking-around money maybe I'll make my second a Sea-Gull.
Or...get one for my son for his 18th birthday in a couple weeks! Need to class the lad up a bit.
No need to worry about what anyone says about Shinola, they make handsome watches and I own one. I find people either love them or hate them, and it mostly has to do with some liberties they took with marketing in the early days…
It’s a slippery slope, be careful… you’ll have more before you know it.
It definitely has a better looking face than the Seiko. I don't know what it is with gaudy hands on watches. The ones on those Seikos are just ugly.
While the Seagull is really nice looking, and quite tempting to get.
Theyre all handsome watches. Ill give them that
Goddamnit, Jack. Considering how many arms I have, and how vacant my lot in the valley remains, it’s stupid I just bought a Third watch.
Sir, the only justification for a third watch is so you have something to wear when you don't feel like wearing your fourth watch.
My Dad literally has a watch for every day of the week!
One, a Tissot, is the only one of note. He has a God-knows-how-old Seiko quartz thing, and the rest are who knows! (He probably should have the Tissot serviced next time it needs a battery; he doesn’t know about that part of Swiss watch ownership.)
2 cars & 3 watches is enough for me to mess with. My daughter adopted the nice little Braun I bought 30+ years ago. that left me with a stainless Omega connie and a Shinola, which was *plenty*, until Jack started his screwinaround , again.
The _good_ thing is : vacant lots are *perfect* for storing Motocycles.......
-Nate
Bikes’d be a great way to Keep that lot (and my wallet) vacant!
It's _ALWAYS_ a good time to buy a(nother) Motocycle .
You're welcome .
-Nate