I think my mother has one of these, except a year or two older. Looks the same. She bought it as her "final car", and given the fact she's likely to live for a few more decades, God willing, I just hope it lasts that long. Not holding my breath however.
The reason I upgraded from a Focus ST to a Mustang GT was boost. Specifically, the lack of it. and that applies to the Terrain here.
My ST sprung a coolant leak and had apparently fatally overheated & blew the head gasket by the time Limp Mode kicked in. The boost from the turbo just made everything worse. No more turbos for me - next time, NA engine. I figured I needed a reliable way to work and had been eyeing an S550 for years, so no time like the present. So now that I have what for me is a perfect car and a way to work, what about the ST? And here's where modern engines faceplant. I blame CAFE.
Bottom line, I have an engine that can't be fixed economically, because of progress. Apparently, a 2.0L Ecoboost is indestructible unless you overheat it, at which point you have to check the head for cracking (!) before you mill it, and you might have to deck the block (!!) AND you have to replace a bunch of one-and-done plastic parts & TTY bolts (!!!). Of course, it'd have to machined for an MLS head gasket.
So the ST is getting an eBay long block, then it's getting sold because it costs more to FIX the engine than to REPLACE it. There's something enormously perverse about that.
These Terrains will have the same problem 150,000 miles out. And THEIR engines won't be worth fixing either.
Incubus wrote at least one song about our disposable, single-use world. It's sad and I dislike it, but I might also be guilty of perpetuating it with my purchases....
The early turbo cars were off limits to the bean counters because no one had a good handle on how durable they actually were, and they were going into critical cars for their companies, either halo cars like the last gen Rx-7 or critical cars like the first gen A4.
Now they know how durable they are, so they cut corners with those as they have with other areas. The endless death march of ever-increasing .gov MPG standards doesn't help. I wouldn't buy a new turbo car for any money.
Sorry to correct you, but the 2.0 in my Escape croaked without overheating. The service rep said it was bad casting that led to the coolant leak. It’s a known issue if you look at the forums, but not one Ford is advertising. It was bad enough that the parts to fix it were in back order when it happened to mine. Got it fixed and immediately traded it away.
What happened was that somebody clocked the hose clamp on the intake duct so that it was pressed up against the oil cooler and wore a hole in it. Created a pinhole leak that I didn't notice until I had almost no throttle response.
Why is the window behind the c pillar like that? It is such a weird styling choice. Is it supposed to be sporty? It can't be, not on this car. Is it supposed to look futuristic like those cars in Total Recall or Minority Report or something? I'm not sure it accomplishes that, either.
Good for GM for figuring out how to build a nicer car than Toyota. I'm still not interested, though. It seems like it might be a Pyrrhic victory in the end.
The only running joke inside GM is that people self-aware enough to get that joke could stand to work there. My two favorite examples of 'getting it right too late' are the Fiero and the '90s Impala SS, both perfected just in time to be able to hold their heads high for the hangman.
The Fiero was killed by the Corvette division. They were going to release it with a turbo. All the software was already in the motor. Suddenly you'd have a car that could outperform a corvette for half the price.
It got shut down as soon as they found out about it.
That's insanity....on the part of the people behind the Fiero. They had to know that the project would be killed if they so much as whispered they were thinking about an idea like that.
They'd been thinking about it when they put the v6 in. I had one (bought it used) back in the 2000's. It didn't take all that much work to make it handle better than most vett's did. I knew people who were putting turbo-charged 3800's in them. Mine had a 3.8 v-6 (I forget what it came out of) and a 4 spd overdrive transmission and a 100shot of nitrous. It was very fast.
That's not it, though. The area where the roof and side panel touch is at the edge of the roof. They are welded together there, and that transition is covered with a long piece of rubber or plastic moulding on plebeian vehicles that spans along that join. You will typically only see that transition smoothed out on exotic brands (Aston Martin, Bentley, Ferrari, Rolls-Royce, etc).
The funky quarter panel shape was really a stylistic choice on GM's part. That said, it might save money because sheet metal and plastic trim are cheaper than automotive-grade glass, so the smaller they can make the actual glass area, the more they can save. They are also hiding the fact that the actual widow opening there is small. It has very thick C- and D-pillars, which help with rollover crash safety.
Yes It was dated in 2015. That's why I replaced all that plasti-chrome in my SS with the black dash components sourced from Australia.
Unfortunately the parts bin from AU was not deep enough to sufficiently remove the ugly from the SS, and despite it's lovely engine and manual transmission, I traded it in.
My mother gets a company leased car about every year and a half. When she started with this particular Danish pharmaceutical firm in 2009, the options were plentiful and primarily European: Volvo S60, Audi A4, Mercedes C Class. She had an A4 and C Class, and then a string of Subaru Outbacks. By 2019, the company had grown, and their company car choices had inversely shrunk: the Rogue and Equinox were the two choices, so she had a Rogue for a minute. Now, it’s a loaded Equinox or mid level RAV4 Hybrid. She chose the Toyota, for a few reasons: it got better safety scores, better fuel economy, and she still had a bad memory from an unreliable Impala she drove at a different company (she had it for two years, yet I remember the Avis Jeep Liberty more). I think she loathes the Toyota: it makes odd noises, is jumpy, has dated tech, and uncomfortable seats. It gets great fuel economy, but for its price is pretty dreadful.
I had to drive the Boxster home to put it up in my parents’ garage for the winter, and my mom came up to drive my A4 home so I’d have two cars over break. 2.5 hours in the Audi made her loathe the Toyota even more. Doubt she’ll ever get another one.
The Boxster has a ripped up back window, and tires that won’t hold air. Needed the Audi to drive around, and couldn’t keep the Boxster in my driveway during snow season.
Please take good care of the Boxster! A Car Capsule (with a blower) is a very inexpensive investment, although some people say that the fully sealed kind works better (you put some Damp Rid or similar inside it...just not where the resulting HIGHLY CORROSIVE BRINE could leak on anything)
Its new tires are hanging around Jack’s barn, plus a set of contis on order. I’ll get to the top come spring, probably needs replaced but I’m going to attempt a sew job on a glass window, dealer thought it was possible and has a vendor for that. For now it has some sta-bil in it and the battery on a tender while it’s in the garage.
Also on the list: brakes, a roll bar, new headlights, and power steering fluid change. Going to attempt a few track days this year; it might eat into the R8 budget, but I’m not sure I really care.
There's plenty of reasons to be cynical about this thing, but "the Rav4 will last twice as long" is a pretty weak sauce, journosaur assessment. Even if it's still true.
I wouldn't buy one of these, but I'd gladly give up half the life expectancy to own something that doesn't make me want to kill myself. And 300k miles of Rav4 ownership sounds like a fate worse than death. At least with this you get to ride around in something that feels like at least somebody tried a bit.
Mind you, I wouldn't bother to make that comment or point in a 488 vs. 720 test... even though the Ferrari WILL last longer. I think this is a market segment where longevity is crucial. Even if you don't keep the car. It affects your financial position at the end of it. One could argue that the true costs of the Terrain are much closer to a Highlander or even an RX300 than they are to a RAV4. And at that point what choice do you make?
Maybe just wishful thinking on my part, but depending on how it's driven, and depending on how it's maintained, the GMC should be good for 250k miles without much trouble. My GM service advisor didn't have much faith in the oil change light. He says the worst problem is that a lot of the modern engines will burn oil, and folks don't check anymore, so they literally run very, sometimes damaging low. Good oil. Regular changes. Change all the other fluids too.
I'm on the inside driving it. The outside is your problem. You bring up nothing but the fact you don't like the RAV4. Which is fine. Sales say different. And I mean sales all over the world. That puts you in the minority. BTW, I've never owned a Toyota.
First, I appreciate your “Little Boxes” reference. I cannot imagine what would compel someone to pay ridiculous money for one of those thrown-together tract houses that looks identical to the ones around it, just because it’s new-construction. And they’re *so* close to each other. I don’t get it.
I think that a lot of Toyota products’ main draw *is* in their perceived reliability. A lot of what they make is actually woefully uncompetitive on paper, but it’s styled well and should last. The problem comes when they turn out to be not-so-reliable, which happens more often than people would have you believe. The gen. 3 (2010-2015) Toyota Prius is prone to rampant EGR and head gasket issues, and the 2.4-liter of the late 2000s (*including* the RAV4) burns a ton of oil at higher mileages, just as a couple of examples. To say nothing of the gen. 4 Lexus LS 460/600h (2007-2017), which seems every bit as expensive to own as its German brethren.
Unfortunately, those cars still command high resale prices, because people don’t know that. And so they represent dubious value, especially when they get old. It’s the Toyota Tax.
I have personally flirted with the idea of buying a later (2016+) Toyota Land Cruiser or LX 570. They’re well-styled, extremely capable, comfortable, and they actually fit in my short-ass garage. But I have a hard time justifying something that gets 12 MPG on a good day, is slow and underpowered, has suboptimal rear cabin space and a useless third row due to the solid rear axle and tall floor, and has primitive safety tech. And the 5.7 V8 isn’t exactly bulletproof, either. It’s prone to oil leaks, due to Toyota’s inexplicable decision to make the heads a three-part assembly, including a “cam tower” that is mated to the other two parts with RTV sealant.
The only reason to get one of either is that the resale value is insane, and so I could sell it for about what I paid if I began to get irritated with it. It’d be a low-risk experiment.
As for the Terrain, specifically: what’s really interesting is the Buick Envision, which is nicer than the Terrain. It sits on what is technically the midsize platform, shared with the Malibu and discontinued Insignia/Regal/Commodore, and is itself closest to the Cadillac XT4. Since the MSRP of the Envision Avenir can comfortably crest $45,000...it almost sits in an entry-level-lux category, along with the (soon to be discontinued) Toyota Venza and Mazda CX-50. I think the Envision only makes sense if you can get it for $6,000 off of MSRP or more. Either way, it, just like the other GM compact crossovers, will drop in value like a rock.
Interesting that the Envision is now on Epsilon. It seems like D-segment crossovers are dying out. The Edge, Murano, and Cherokee are either dead or have one foot in the grave. The manufacturers have decided to stretch their C-Segment platforms to the limit and eliminate any remaining quirky utilitarianism that you used to get from the Rav4/CR-V/Forester etc in favor of plastic luxuriousness.
I think the Edge and Murano came from the vestigial tails of people expecting a crossover to be a sodden lump of metal based on their ownership of Explorers and S10 Blazers.
More like the MKX, which was the Lincoln version. But sort of. But there were a lot of midsize 5-seat SUVs at that point; it was a common format. They just changed the construction from being longitude-RWD and body-on-frame to transverse-FWD and unibody.
Yes... but it DROVE like each wheel weighed 200 pounds. Never has a vehicle felt less light on its feet. And I always believed that Ford did that so people coming from 4500 pound body on frame trucks didn't think they were trading down.
Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, that may well have been the case. I drove a CD3 Edge once, but it was a long time ago. I don't remember much about it.
My time with a CD4 crossover, specifically a 2016 MKX, was more extended, as I received it as an insurance rental. I mostly just remember thinking the interior felt inexcusably cheap for what it cost. Lincoln has far better interiors than it did several years ago.
I had a set of prototype Eibach springs sent to us for an 07 Edge when they first came out and I was working for an R&D place. It required a good bit of toe adjustment in the rear afterwards. Stuck a 9” wheel under it with a little fatter and more aggressive tire; better pads.
Subtle changes that made a huge transformation to the vehicle. We actually wound up trying to pitch it as a Police package. I’ve still some pretty cool renderings of it all dressed along with the files to cut the vinyl work.
I had a 2016 or 17 Edge ST as a rental when they were fixing my Escape. That was as entertaining as any SUV I’ve ever driven. It had good features and tech, too. I also had no faith whatsoever that everything would still function at 100k miles.
I stopped renting Edge based Explorers back in the day because of how ponderous they were. It seemed like they had the turning radius of a Great Lakes ore freighter in parking lots.
And the current Audi Q5 is an RX for people convinced Lexuses are for retirees and H1Bs. This would be my father. Car and driver’s description of it as a “dinner roll on wheels” is pretty apt. I don’t mind it, though.
The first two generations of Explorer should have been very lively experiences, considering that people back then seemed to lack the understanding for how poorly behaved a narrow, short-wheelbase, solid-rear-axle SUV drove and so treated them like Taurus Wagons. To say nothing of the Firestone debacle. It had to have been *very* lively when Mommy or Daddy got the family truckster on two wheels trying to get to soccer practice.
The Edge and Murano were much more forgiving and thus easier to drive. We actually had a Murano when I was a teenager and I learned to drive in it.
I wouldn't necessarily say China hates us. It's just that they have zero guilt about making the rope with which we are hanging ourselves, because we're the ones who gifted them the equipment with which they made it.
Oh, I never said I would *buy* one. But I wouldn’t buy a Terrain, either. Or a RAV4.
I’d probably get an Outback, which is priced similarly to the RAV4, but is a far more refined, premium-feeling vehicle. In fact, I did that. I bought a 2022 Outback Touring XT a couple of years ago, and sold it when my ex moved out (too many bad memories).
My sister has a 2015 and nephew has a 2012. The nephew has had enough. Personally I'd drive it into the ground. My sister's was recalled on a flat bed with 48 miles on it. One of many recalls.
Maybe the 2022 are more refined, premium felling, but those terms are not something I'd call the 2 older ones that I am familiar with. The nephew's is getting old. There was no excuse for my sister's.
This after they gave all the 6.2-liter GMT900 products (Escalade/ESV/EXT, Yukon/XL Denali) a permanent AWD system in lieu of a proper 4WD system with a two-speed transfer case.
I feel like it was definitely one of those “Quick, let’s do it and see if anyone cares” thing.
I actually don't think most people care where their car is assembled, to be frank. They might care if they looked, but aren't willing to do the research beforehand. In their mind, the car's nationality is that of the badge that's on it. They don't know anything about Indiana-built Subarus or Mexico-built GM trucks, or...yes...Chinese-built Volvos and Buicks.
Look at the resale on the L vin Volvos though, which are mainly the long wheelbase 2018+ S90s, it’s a joke compared to the USA made smaller S60 or the V90 wagons that are made in Sweden. I’d love an S90 as a cruiser, but no way am I buying a China Volvo. What’s scarier is that I’ve seen a few L VIN XC60s floating around which mix in sight unseen with the euro ones.
I think that has more to do with the undesirability of large luxury sedans, especially the “second-tier” ones, of which the S90 is the last (previously this category would also have included the Continental, CT6, Q70L and RLX). No one wants to pay remotely what an S90 costs new, and so they sell scarcely and with big discounts, and then of course sell for even less on the used market.
Whereas the S60 is more reasonably priced *and* more handsomely styled, and the V90 is a niche, order-only model that Volvo builds the exact correct number of.
Again, I don’t think it has to do with there the car was made, because people really don’t pay that much attention. If the new 2024 GX 550 (a highly anticipated model that already has giant waiting lists) were made in Chengdu instead of Tahara, probably less than 5% of its intended customer base would nix it for that reason.
So I'll agree with Jack below, that the Volvo and Mercedes Benz E wagons have a VASTLY different buyer profile than the sedans which change the equations. I'll also concede to you Kyree that, yes the tier 2 lux products depreciate much faster.
HOWEVER in this case there's a clear way to see China values. Volvo launched the new S90 in 2017 with the USA getting the Swedish build short wheel base cars, before switching over in 2018 to the long wheel base China cars. I was shopping around for one before I got my V60 in late 2020 and it was interesting to see a clear 15-20% price premium on the 2017 models versus the 2018s for the same equipment and equivalent mileage. I haven't looked recently, but earlier this year when looking with my dad, it seemed to hold for good condition (dealer sellable) cars, where the 17's would go for more than the 18s.
I will add that Lexus moving GX production from Tahara would have a MASSIVE impact on the sales of the car as a big part of it's following is as a "step up" for the cool bros who've outgrown their 4Runners and want some Lux. It sells as a baby Land Cruiser and a big part of that is being made in Japan.
I think you're right about most people. The first brand new car I purchased was a Mexican built 1995 Cavalier Z24. Never had any issues with it but I didn't own it long enough for the entire Quad 4 experience. I currently rock a retired Caprice PPV and I commend the Aussies all day long for how that thing drives and handles. The hard plastics are part of the fleet special motif and the car was cheap to boot.
But given the choice between a China built car and walking, I'd go shoe shopping. The saving grace for manufacturers is that they don't build anything I'm remotely interested in. They can build their new crap anywhere and sell it to the middle class they're actively plotting against.
Supras and Celicas of all generations aside, Toyota is the official car of Non-Car People.
Indian guys drive used Corollas for 150,000 miles before upgrading to used Lexuses (Lexi?). Normal people buy them for their daughter's first car. And Mexicans, apparently, have them armored.
Yeah whatever. While there are plenty of non-car people driving their Priuses slowly in the fast lane, there are also Car People who own REAL FUN CARS who also have boring Toyotas to be reliable transportation. I am large, I contain multitudes, as the guy said.
As if people who buy the GMC Terrain (or any other modern vehicle) are Car People?
"To say nothing of the gen. 4 Lexus LS 460/600h (2007-2017), which seems every bit as expensive to own as its German brethren."
My ownership experience of my 2007 460L has been far better and cheaper than any BMW sedan I've owned. And the 460 has been 3x better in ways that matter to me -- handles tall passengers, is quiet at speed, and eats up road trips. Great sound system too.
But the Toyota Tax is a real thing, and despite a few issues, I still think they're worth it. My experience is primarily with the 460 and various Priuses, but I also have a Cruiser, a couple of 4Runners, and a Sienna minivan. Quite an (un)impressive fleet, but I remain a Toyota believer. You gotta pick something, after all.
My old '94 FZJ80 Land Cruiser is a beast, and I don't understand the love people continue to have for the new ones. Such silly trucks to drive primarily on smooth roads.
Interesting that your Terrain impressions are more positive than mine of the Equinox. I had one as a rental a couple years back while I had my Mazda in for small Deer surgery. On day 1 Enterprise had no car for me. On day 2 the Elantra they thought they had for me needed tires so I had to wait for this Combover. I don't know what trim it was, but it had a urethane wheel, the small MyLink screen, cloth seats, no driver assist systems, and at most 17" alloy wheels. 10 years ago they would've called it a 1LT but it may have been an LS since the new LT tends to be the successor to the 2LT. I thought the interior quality was about on par with a Rav4, but definitely worse than a CR-V. Also, I could not get comfortable in it. The dead pedal is in a bad place, being too far left and forward. I ended up putting my left foot where the clutch would be as a least worst option.
Positives: The engine was unremarkable in a generally good way, with sufficient power and 30+ MPG. It had adequate room, but no more.
In a rainstorm it misfired once, so I drove to the airport and swapped it for a Corolla. I liked the Corolla.
The only state that had a real car listed as the top selling vehicle recently was Florida with the Corolla. It serves for the working class and as a last vehicle for the 'God's waiting room' population. Our rental got 40mpg highway but it handled like crap until I confirmed my suspicion that the tires were all at least 4# down.
It's certainly the latest trendy aesthetic. Hilarious to see people ruin perfectly good 90s brick facade homes with it, or worse yet poorly done rehabs of rural farm homes with this "rural chic/natural wood" aesthetic applied to an actual old rural farm house. The house of QX80 owners.
This shit is 3 years out of date already. You're unfortunately seeing these trends hit the latest adopters who don't seem to realize they're ruining perfectly great houses with those awful "rehabs."
It's been interesting to observe the habits of this crowd as the neighborhood has filled in.
In no particular order:
Tacky/poor taste in home exterior: beyond the usual white/black or grey/black motifs, there's one that's dark slate house with black trim/gutters with bright gold/orange highlighted sections of downspout(?)
million+ dollar homes on small lots with little privacy (in Indiana)- bizarre
every flavor of latest/greatest german performance crossover, Tesla, etc
They really love the very mediocre "high end" mexican place that opened down the street
Haven't made up my mind as to whether they have so much money that they simply don't care at all about any sense of "value" or that they are that big of idiots.
I had a 77 monte carlo, the interior of the cutlass might have been nicer looking, but both chevy and Pontiac had better looking sheet metal, and the Chevy came with a Chevrolet engine, where as the cutlass might come with an olds engine, or it might have come with the 305, which couldn’t get out of its own way, and likewise, the equinoxious looks better than the terrain, though underneath it is bolt for bolt the same vehicle, these were not even on my radar when I bought the Mazda cx-30, which comes with a 2.5 counterbalanced non paint shaker and a not very busy 6 speed torque converter automatic, not as large as the terrain, but at as refined.
I think you are welcome to disagree, we all have our own tastes and opinions, I loved my moms 1968 cutlass s, that was gorgeous styling, and the 1977 was solidly malaise era.
You're free to be wrong, if that's what you are saying!
In truth, the stacked-lamp 1976-77 Monte has a lot of charm for me now. I didn't always feel that way. I think the Cutlass was the cleanest design, the Regal the most stately, and the Pontiac was kind of like a budget Stutz.
😂🤣🤣, not saying that at all! I am saying it is totally subjective! The monty had sculpted sides and a nice sight line over the front, I actually prefer a 73 over my 77 because you know…. Round headlight’s.
I think for the downsized 78, the Monte Carlo had the best look, followed by Regal, Cutlass, Grand Prix. For the Colonnade era (73-77), I think the initial 73s had the best design, starting with Buick, Pontiac (Grand Am nose!), Olds, Chevrolet. I think late Colonnades looked funky, with the square headlights and more blocky fronts/backs, while still having the curvy/swoopy lines.
I have the Terrain’s bigger sister; the Acadia, for my company car. I try hard not to like it as it looks plain Jane and is essentially a modern station wagon in both design and function, but every time I get behind the wheel I enjoy driving it. Very responsive motor, decent handling, and comfortable good quality interior. I don’t know how it’s going to last over the long haul, but if it’s anything like my trusty ‘11 Tahoe, it might do well in the durability department.
Yeah, but where are the Bond girls we were promised!?
Really though, thanks for this, Jack. I would never read a Terrain review elsewhere, but yours is one of my favorite bits since you drove the Model 3. I'll continue to re-up my membership as long as you keep slinging jokes for us 14-year-olds-at-heart (looking at the "slut" pronunciation of one of GMC's long-running trim levels, and the continued digs at certain ZR1 into a wall members of the Ren Cen brass).
The 403 seems cool unless you were unlucky enough to find one in your Pontiac.
I drove a first generation Terrain when car shopping back in 2014 and I couldn’t think of a more soulless vehicle I’d ever piloted. I suppose it’s good to hear that they are a decent ride now.
Moreso it’s worth celebrating the loss of the GM 3.6 that has claimed an untold legion of the cross platform sub segment over the years. For a company that used to be a beacon in powertrain reliability, GM has certainly been downright abysmal lately.
I think the 1.5 shortcomings vs the RAV4 is tremendously more substantial in the secondhand used market. To buy one of these in 6-8yrs how long will it take someone before self destruction? This was the entire 3.6 plague and exactly why the boring RAV4 is still commanding money. It’s not always about the immediate now that continues to drive sales.
Ford has really screwed the pooch with its EcoBoost line accordingly. My sister is a victim with a 1.6 powered escape. They all suffer from coolant issue (cracking etc) and head gasket problems with a piss poor open deck design. It’s enough to make my old mid 90s turbo Mitsubishis seem indestructible. Long live the 4G63-T
In turn my workhorse Duratec 3.0 keeps churning out its unstoppable 240hp without issue as approach 160k. Too bad it’s rotting away around itself. Have to spend $43k for a Badlands Bronco Sport if you want like styled metrics.
They have a timing chain / tensioner issue. Originally they were slated to 5-7k oil change intervals iirc (we had one in a Vue). The chain tensioner is oil fed. As the oil breaks down the tensioner becomes less and less effective which starts causing chain stretch. Eventually they start throwing misfire codes on the rearward cam set and ending with failures on PTV contact or chain snapping entirely. The service is primarily done engine out.
I don’t much care for anything that uses a DOD design, but I know the later engines were popular for swapping into other platforms as they make pretty good power.
I understand they eat timing chains at 100K, especially if oil changes aren't perfect. I bet it holds up better in Camaros and Cadillacs than the budget priced crossovers because of the maintenance habits of the respective owners.
No love for Olds motors from me. They were always worse performers in every aspect to their Chevy counterparts. I've owned many, and they were all turds.
It's interesting that Toyota is the benchmark. I get it, they're the sales big boy, but I've driven them, and their competitors, and it's like they feel likt they can get away with cheaping them out. Ex. the current Tucson is a nice drive, and I genuinely prefer it to a lot of cars, explicitly the RAV.
They sell the most, and they were first to mainstream the segment with the Rav4 and the Harrier/Lexus RX. All of today's crossovers except the Outback descend from the Rav4/RX/Highlander trio.
It would be FAR more eco friendly to just tow the Terrain sedan around with a Duramax 3500 "tender" that only hooked up when acceleration was required.
Eight-speed manual in that RAV4? Be still my heart!
Beat me to it!
It's the return of the Twin Stick!
Or maybe it's just the aforementioned laptop that can't keep up with typing.
Wasn’t that transmission in the colt?
One of my friends had one of these! I believe it was 1982.
I had one. Bought it from my brother in law. Nice little commuter car. Had a hard to solve electrical problem that turned out to be the engine ground.
I think my mother has one of these, except a year or two older. Looks the same. She bought it as her "final car", and given the fact she's likely to live for a few more decades, God willing, I just hope it lasts that long. Not holding my breath however.
The reason I upgraded from a Focus ST to a Mustang GT was boost. Specifically, the lack of it. and that applies to the Terrain here.
My ST sprung a coolant leak and had apparently fatally overheated & blew the head gasket by the time Limp Mode kicked in. The boost from the turbo just made everything worse. No more turbos for me - next time, NA engine. I figured I needed a reliable way to work and had been eyeing an S550 for years, so no time like the present. So now that I have what for me is a perfect car and a way to work, what about the ST? And here's where modern engines faceplant. I blame CAFE.
Bottom line, I have an engine that can't be fixed economically, because of progress. Apparently, a 2.0L Ecoboost is indestructible unless you overheat it, at which point you have to check the head for cracking (!) before you mill it, and you might have to deck the block (!!) AND you have to replace a bunch of one-and-done plastic parts & TTY bolts (!!!). Of course, it'd have to machined for an MLS head gasket.
So the ST is getting an eBay long block, then it's getting sold because it costs more to FIX the engine than to REPLACE it. There's something enormously perverse about that.
These Terrains will have the same problem 150,000 miles out. And THEIR engines won't be worth fixing either.
Incubus wrote at least one song about our disposable, single-use world. It's sad and I dislike it, but I might also be guilty of perpetuating it with my purchases....
Most of that work is par for the course if you want to do it right. Describes most engines. Probably already has an MLS gasket as factory.
It DID.
My problem is how short the distance between "functional" and "fragged" is.
The early turbo cars were off limits to the bean counters because no one had a good handle on how durable they actually were, and they were going into critical cars for their companies, either halo cars like the last gen Rx-7 or critical cars like the first gen A4.
Now they know how durable they are, so they cut corners with those as they have with other areas. The endless death march of ever-increasing .gov MPG standards doesn't help. I wouldn't buy a new turbo car for any money.
Good. Don't. Life is better that way.
Ron, I don't get it ~ I don't see 35 + MPG anywhere and most 1980's four bangers got that easily .
-Nate
I had a 96 Neon sedan with the SOHC and 3.55 FD 5-speed. Easily knocked out 40+ on the Ohio Turnpike.
Adding between 1000 and 1500 pounds to a car will do that, Nate!
Hey ! I'm not _that_ fat..........
-Nate
Sorry to correct you, but the 2.0 in my Escape croaked without overheating. The service rep said it was bad casting that led to the coolant leak. It’s a known issue if you look at the forums, but not one Ford is advertising. It was bad enough that the parts to fix it were in back order when it happened to mine. Got it fixed and immediately traded it away.
https://www.fordescape.org/threads/2017-2019-1-5l-4-cylinder-ecoboost-engine-escape-coolant-loss-engine-rebuilds.112328/page-19#replies
Oh, that's even better!
What happened was that somebody clocked the hose clamp on the intake duct so that it was pressed up against the oil cooler and wore a hole in it. Created a pinhole leak that I didn't notice until I had almost no throttle response.
Quality is job one.
I was very disappointed. I owned Fords my whole life but don’t see getting another one without major changes to design and quality control.
Talk about throwing away a legacy.
Why is the window behind the c pillar like that? It is such a weird styling choice. Is it supposed to be sporty? It can't be, not on this car. Is it supposed to look futuristic like those cars in Total Recall or Minority Report or something? I'm not sure it accomplishes that, either.
Good for GM for figuring out how to build a nicer car than Toyota. I'm still not interested, though. It seems like it might be a Pyrrhic victory in the end.
That's classic GM.
Getting the car right just after it doesn't matter anymore.
Ahem. It ain't a car.
Oh. Yeah...
There are so many examples over the decades that I would hope it’s a running joke inside GM.
Have they ever wondered why the Corolla, Camry, Civic, and Accord nameplates were never discontinued?
The only running joke inside GM is that people self-aware enough to get that joke could stand to work there. My two favorite examples of 'getting it right too late' are the Fiero and the '90s Impala SS, both perfected just in time to be able to hold their heads high for the hangman.
The 2nd Gen CT6, only sold in China, of course, looks great.
The Fiero was killed by the Corvette division. They were going to release it with a turbo. All the software was already in the motor. Suddenly you'd have a car that could outperform a corvette for half the price.
It got shut down as soon as they found out about it.
That's insanity....on the part of the people behind the Fiero. They had to know that the project would be killed if they so much as whispered they were thinking about an idea like that.
They'd been thinking about it when they put the v6 in. I had one (bought it used) back in the 2000's. It didn't take all that much work to make it handle better than most vett's did. I knew people who were putting turbo-charged 3800's in them. Mine had a 3.8 v-6 (I forget what it came out of) and a 4 spd overdrive transmission and a 100shot of nitrous. It was very fast.
"...perfected just in time to be able to hold their heads high for the hangman" - a brilliant line, sir!
Well, the Accord nameplate has been applianced!
I hope that when the Camry wipes the floor with the “Accord,” that the Midwesterners get some influence. But I’m not optimistic.
Sort of like Pontiac doing the G8 just before crashing. Still see a couple of those around and they are still appealing.
Why is the quarter-panel window like that? Because it’s the one distinguishing element of what would otherwise be a very plain side DLO design.
Looks awkward as hell.
That is possibly where the roof and side sheet metal touch. Covering it over with plastic means not having to finish the joint smooth.
Take a look at the Nissan Maxima. Same thing but a bit smaller.
That's not it, though. The area where the roof and side panel touch is at the edge of the roof. They are welded together there, and that transition is covered with a long piece of rubber or plastic moulding on plebeian vehicles that spans along that join. You will typically only see that transition smoothed out on exotic brands (Aston Martin, Bentley, Ferrari, Rolls-Royce, etc).
The funky quarter panel shape was really a stylistic choice on GM's part. That said, it might save money because sheet metal and plastic trim are cheaper than automotive-grade glass, so the smaller they can make the actual glass area, the more they can save. They are also hiding the fact that the actual widow opening there is small. It has very thick C- and D-pillars, which help with rollover crash safety.
Is Aston martin still considered a Luxury Brand? Btw, the capitalization is all thanks to Apple Autocorrect.
I don’t see why it wouldn’t be.
The center stack with the ugly plasti-chrome wings looks exactly like the Chevy SS dash from 2015.
And the CTS dash from 2008, and the LaCrosse dash from before that. This is no longer a styling leader of a company.
Yes It was dated in 2015. That's why I replaced all that plasti-chrome in my SS with the black dash components sourced from Australia.
Unfortunately the parts bin from AU was not deep enough to sufficiently remove the ugly from the SS, and despite it's lovely engine and manual transmission, I traded it in.
My mother gets a company leased car about every year and a half. When she started with this particular Danish pharmaceutical firm in 2009, the options were plentiful and primarily European: Volvo S60, Audi A4, Mercedes C Class. She had an A4 and C Class, and then a string of Subaru Outbacks. By 2019, the company had grown, and their company car choices had inversely shrunk: the Rogue and Equinox were the two choices, so she had a Rogue for a minute. Now, it’s a loaded Equinox or mid level RAV4 Hybrid. She chose the Toyota, for a few reasons: it got better safety scores, better fuel economy, and she still had a bad memory from an unreliable Impala she drove at a different company (she had it for two years, yet I remember the Avis Jeep Liberty more). I think she loathes the Toyota: it makes odd noises, is jumpy, has dated tech, and uncomfortable seats. It gets great fuel economy, but for its price is pretty dreadful.
I had to drive the Boxster home to put it up in my parents’ garage for the winter, and my mom came up to drive my A4 home so I’d have two cars over break. 2.5 hours in the Audi made her loathe the Toyota even more. Doubt she’ll ever get another one.
"my mom came up to drive my A4 home so I’d have two cars over break"
The Boxster has a ripped up back window, and tires that won’t hold air. Needed the Audi to drive around, and couldn’t keep the Boxster in my driveway during snow season.
Please take good care of the Boxster! A Car Capsule (with a blower) is a very inexpensive investment, although some people say that the fully sealed kind works better (you put some Damp Rid or similar inside it...just not where the resulting HIGHLY CORROSIVE BRINE could leak on anything)
Its new tires are hanging around Jack’s barn, plus a set of contis on order. I’ll get to the top come spring, probably needs replaced but I’m going to attempt a sew job on a glass window, dealer thought it was possible and has a vendor for that. For now it has some sta-bil in it and the battery on a tender while it’s in the garage.
Also on the list: brakes, a roll bar, new headlights, and power steering fluid change. Going to attempt a few track days this year; it might eat into the R8 budget, but I’m not sure I really care.
There's plenty of reasons to be cynical about this thing, but "the Rav4 will last twice as long" is a pretty weak sauce, journosaur assessment. Even if it's still true.
I wouldn't buy one of these, but I'd gladly give up half the life expectancy to own something that doesn't make me want to kill myself. And 300k miles of Rav4 ownership sounds like a fate worse than death. At least with this you get to ride around in something that feels like at least somebody tried a bit.
Mind you, I wouldn't bother to make that comment or point in a 488 vs. 720 test... even though the Ferrari WILL last longer. I think this is a market segment where longevity is crucial. Even if you don't keep the car. It affects your financial position at the end of it. One could argue that the true costs of the Terrain are much closer to a Highlander or even an RX300 than they are to a RAV4. And at that point what choice do you make?
That's a pretty bad car when a FERRARI is more reliable.
It doesn't matter. They are both "dinner party" cars, ie something to talk about rather than actually use, aka Veblen goods.
Which is a shame, because unlike some jerkwagon Cunt-Stache the modern Ferrari and McLaren are almost racecar brilliant at speed.
I am sure you are right, but the speed is now just too bonkers. A 246 Dino with a 300bhp V6 on XWX Michelins would be more fun, I suspect.
This is worth a separate column... so I'll write one.
Maybe just wishful thinking on my part, but depending on how it's driven, and depending on how it's maintained, the GMC should be good for 250k miles without much trouble. My GM service advisor didn't have much faith in the oil change light. He says the worst problem is that a lot of the modern engines will burn oil, and folks don't check anymore, so they literally run very, sometimes damaging low. Good oil. Regular changes. Change all the other fluids too.
I'm on the inside driving it. The outside is your problem. You bring up nothing but the fact you don't like the RAV4. Which is fine. Sales say different. And I mean sales all over the world. That puts you in the minority. BTW, I've never owned a Toyota.
First, I appreciate your “Little Boxes” reference. I cannot imagine what would compel someone to pay ridiculous money for one of those thrown-together tract houses that looks identical to the ones around it, just because it’s new-construction. And they’re *so* close to each other. I don’t get it.
I think that a lot of Toyota products’ main draw *is* in their perceived reliability. A lot of what they make is actually woefully uncompetitive on paper, but it’s styled well and should last. The problem comes when they turn out to be not-so-reliable, which happens more often than people would have you believe. The gen. 3 (2010-2015) Toyota Prius is prone to rampant EGR and head gasket issues, and the 2.4-liter of the late 2000s (*including* the RAV4) burns a ton of oil at higher mileages, just as a couple of examples. To say nothing of the gen. 4 Lexus LS 460/600h (2007-2017), which seems every bit as expensive to own as its German brethren.
Unfortunately, those cars still command high resale prices, because people don’t know that. And so they represent dubious value, especially when they get old. It’s the Toyota Tax.
I have personally flirted with the idea of buying a later (2016+) Toyota Land Cruiser or LX 570. They’re well-styled, extremely capable, comfortable, and they actually fit in my short-ass garage. But I have a hard time justifying something that gets 12 MPG on a good day, is slow and underpowered, has suboptimal rear cabin space and a useless third row due to the solid rear axle and tall floor, and has primitive safety tech. And the 5.7 V8 isn’t exactly bulletproof, either. It’s prone to oil leaks, due to Toyota’s inexplicable decision to make the heads a three-part assembly, including a “cam tower” that is mated to the other two parts with RTV sealant.
The only reason to get one of either is that the resale value is insane, and so I could sell it for about what I paid if I began to get irritated with it. It’d be a low-risk experiment.
As for the Terrain, specifically: what’s really interesting is the Buick Envision, which is nicer than the Terrain. It sits on what is technically the midsize platform, shared with the Malibu and discontinued Insignia/Regal/Commodore, and is itself closest to the Cadillac XT4. Since the MSRP of the Envision Avenir can comfortably crest $45,000...it almost sits in an entry-level-lux category, along with the (soon to be discontinued) Toyota Venza and Mazda CX-50. I think the Envision only makes sense if you can get it for $6,000 off of MSRP or more. Either way, it, just like the other GM compact crossovers, will drop in value like a rock.
Interesting that the Envision is now on Epsilon. It seems like D-segment crossovers are dying out. The Edge, Murano, and Cherokee are either dead or have one foot in the grave. The manufacturers have decided to stretch their C-Segment platforms to the limit and eliminate any remaining quirky utilitarianism that you used to get from the Rav4/CR-V/Forester etc in favor of plastic luxuriousness.
I think the Edge and Murano came from the vestigial tails of people expecting a crossover to be a sodden lump of metal based on their ownership of Explorers and S10 Blazers.
Wasn't the first-gen Edge a Lexus RX clone on the excellent CD3 platform?
More like the MKX, which was the Lincoln version. But sort of. But there were a lot of midsize 5-seat SUVs at that point; it was a common format. They just changed the construction from being longitude-RWD and body-on-frame to transverse-FWD and unibody.
Yes... but it DROVE like each wheel weighed 200 pounds. Never has a vehicle felt less light on its feet. And I always believed that Ford did that so people coming from 4500 pound body on frame trucks didn't think they were trading down.
Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, that may well have been the case. I drove a CD3 Edge once, but it was a long time ago. I don't remember much about it.
My time with a CD4 crossover, specifically a 2016 MKX, was more extended, as I received it as an insurance rental. I mostly just remember thinking the interior felt inexcusably cheap for what it cost. Lincoln has far better interiors than it did several years ago.
Had they made their recent efforts in, say, 2001, they'd still be doing massive volume.
I had a set of prototype Eibach springs sent to us for an 07 Edge when they first came out and I was working for an R&D place. It required a good bit of toe adjustment in the rear afterwards. Stuck a 9” wheel under it with a little fatter and more aggressive tire; better pads.
Subtle changes that made a huge transformation to the vehicle. We actually wound up trying to pitch it as a Police package. I’ve still some pretty cool renderings of it all dressed along with the files to cut the vinyl work.
I had a 2016 or 17 Edge ST as a rental when they were fixing my Escape. That was as entertaining as any SUV I’ve ever driven. It had good features and tech, too. I also had no faith whatsoever that everything would still function at 100k miles.
I stopped renting Edge based Explorers back in the day because of how ponderous they were. It seemed like they had the turning radius of a Great Lakes ore freighter in parking lots.
And the current Audi Q5 is an RX for people convinced Lexuses are for retirees and H1Bs. This would be my father. Car and driver’s description of it as a “dinner roll on wheels” is pretty apt. I don’t mind it, though.
The first two generations of Explorer should have been very lively experiences, considering that people back then seemed to lack the understanding for how poorly behaved a narrow, short-wheelbase, solid-rear-axle SUV drove and so treated them like Taurus Wagons. To say nothing of the Firestone debacle. It had to have been *very* lively when Mommy or Daddy got the family truckster on two wheels trying to get to soccer practice.
The Edge and Murano were much more forgiving and thus easier to drive. We actually had a Murano when I was a teenager and I learned to drive in it.
The Murano had VQ power at least. I drove a 1st generation with the CVT as a service loaner for a week and actually enjoyed it.
Ah, but the Envision is guaranteed to be Chinese, which is even worse than being Mexican!
(Now I sit back and wait for someone to mail an out of context quote to whoever they think my employer is.)
already on it
It's the country that makes the fentanyl vs the one that laces it in to other stuff and smuggles it in. What difference, at this point, does it make?
one hates us and the other isnt a major military power
Which one is which?
I wouldn't necessarily say China hates us. It's just that they have zero guilt about making the rope with which we are hanging ourselves, because we're the ones who gifted them the equipment with which they made it.
(The Chinese are also a generally uncaring people, which to us looks like hate)
Agree
Very superstitious as well.
Why else would feng shui and powdered rhino horn still have any traction?
But they can be bluntly funny when talking about shortcomings of others
Han supremacism is a real thing.
Really not keen on that.
We have more reason to go to war with Mexico than China RIGHT NOW.
would be easier and cheaper anyways
go for it
Oh, I never said I would *buy* one. But I wouldn’t buy a Terrain, either. Or a RAV4.
I’d probably get an Outback, which is priced similarly to the RAV4, but is a far more refined, premium-feeling vehicle. In fact, I did that. I bought a 2022 Outback Touring XT a couple of years ago, and sold it when my ex moved out (too many bad memories).
My sister has a 2015 and nephew has a 2012. The nephew has had enough. Personally I'd drive it into the ground. My sister's was recalled on a flat bed with 48 miles on it. One of many recalls.
Maybe the 2022 are more refined, premium felling, but those terms are not something I'd call the 2 older ones that I am familiar with. The nephew's is getting old. There was no excuse for my sister's.
The problem with the Envison is that there's a stigma with "made in China."
I think it's going to be a while before the mainstream public wants to buy a car whose VIN starts with "L."
I certainly don't want to.
Most people don't notice. GM deleting the 2-speed transfer case from most of their half-tons resulted in a few blog posts, but little else.
They WHAT??!!
Good God Almighty!
This after they gave all the 6.2-liter GMT900 products (Escalade/ESV/EXT, Yukon/XL Denali) a permanent AWD system in lieu of a proper 4WD system with a two-speed transfer case.
I feel like it was definitely one of those “Quick, let’s do it and see if anyone cares” thing.
HOO-ERS DON'T LOW RANGE
I actually don't think most people care where their car is assembled, to be frank. They might care if they looked, but aren't willing to do the research beforehand. In their mind, the car's nationality is that of the badge that's on it. They don't know anything about Indiana-built Subarus or Mexico-built GM trucks, or...yes...Chinese-built Volvos and Buicks.
Look at the resale on the L vin Volvos though, which are mainly the long wheelbase 2018+ S90s, it’s a joke compared to the USA made smaller S60 or the V90 wagons that are made in Sweden. I’d love an S90 as a cruiser, but no way am I buying a China Volvo. What’s scarier is that I’ve seen a few L VIN XC60s floating around which mix in sight unseen with the euro ones.
AFAIK, canadian market XC60s are all made in china.
I think that has more to do with the undesirability of large luxury sedans, especially the “second-tier” ones, of which the S90 is the last (previously this category would also have included the Continental, CT6, Q70L and RLX). No one wants to pay remotely what an S90 costs new, and so they sell scarcely and with big discounts, and then of course sell for even less on the used market.
Whereas the S60 is more reasonably priced *and* more handsomely styled, and the V90 is a niche, order-only model that Volvo builds the exact correct number of.
Again, I don’t think it has to do with there the car was made, because people really don’t pay that much attention. If the new 2024 GX 550 (a highly anticipated model that already has giant waiting lists) were made in Chengdu instead of Tahara, probably less than 5% of its intended customer base would nix it for that reason.
Yeah, the buyer base for S90 and V90 are MASSIVELY different people.
There's still Genesis and (arguably) Lexus LS in the second tier.
So I'll agree with Jack below, that the Volvo and Mercedes Benz E wagons have a VASTLY different buyer profile than the sedans which change the equations. I'll also concede to you Kyree that, yes the tier 2 lux products depreciate much faster.
HOWEVER in this case there's a clear way to see China values. Volvo launched the new S90 in 2017 with the USA getting the Swedish build short wheel base cars, before switching over in 2018 to the long wheel base China cars. I was shopping around for one before I got my V60 in late 2020 and it was interesting to see a clear 15-20% price premium on the 2017 models versus the 2018s for the same equipment and equivalent mileage. I haven't looked recently, but earlier this year when looking with my dad, it seemed to hold for good condition (dealer sellable) cars, where the 17's would go for more than the 18s.
I will add that Lexus moving GX production from Tahara would have a MASSIVE impact on the sales of the car as a big part of it's following is as a "step up" for the cool bros who've outgrown their 4Runners and want some Lux. It sells as a baby Land Cruiser and a big part of that is being made in Japan.
I think you're right about most people. The first brand new car I purchased was a Mexican built 1995 Cavalier Z24. Never had any issues with it but I didn't own it long enough for the entire Quad 4 experience. I currently rock a retired Caprice PPV and I commend the Aussies all day long for how that thing drives and handles. The hard plastics are part of the fleet special motif and the car was cheap to boot.
But given the choice between a China built car and walking, I'd go shoe shopping. The saving grace for manufacturers is that they don't build anything I'm remotely interested in. They can build their new crap anywhere and sell it to the middle class they're actively plotting against.
Supras and Celicas of all generations aside, Toyota is the official car of Non-Car People.
Indian guys drive used Corollas for 150,000 miles before upgrading to used Lexuses (Lexi?). Normal people buy them for their daughter's first car. And Mexicans, apparently, have them armored.
Which makes sense. If you don't care about cars, get the one that causes you the least uncertainty or expense.
Oh, absolutely.
It's like me and computers. I just need it to work with no drama.
What is a “Corolla” in India? When I was in AFG, every damn Toyota badged sedan was a “Corolla “, from a Yaris up to an Avalon
Hell if I know.
It's like Cutlass was in the USA from... 1988 forward!
"Toyota is the official car of Non-Car People"
Yeah whatever. While there are plenty of non-car people driving their Priuses slowly in the fast lane, there are also Car People who own REAL FUN CARS who also have boring Toyotas to be reliable transportation. I am large, I contain multitudes, as the guy said.
As if people who buy the GMC Terrain (or any other modern vehicle) are Car People?
A shame, that. I'd add the Mister Two, AE86 and FX16 to that list.
Them too.
The cx-50 is relatively new, I don’t see this one being discontinued.
"To say nothing of the gen. 4 Lexus LS 460/600h (2007-2017), which seems every bit as expensive to own as its German brethren."
My ownership experience of my 2007 460L has been far better and cheaper than any BMW sedan I've owned. And the 460 has been 3x better in ways that matter to me -- handles tall passengers, is quiet at speed, and eats up road trips. Great sound system too.
But the Toyota Tax is a real thing, and despite a few issues, I still think they're worth it. My experience is primarily with the 460 and various Priuses, but I also have a Cruiser, a couple of 4Runners, and a Sienna minivan. Quite an (un)impressive fleet, but I remain a Toyota believer. You gotta pick something, after all.
My old '94 FZJ80 Land Cruiser is a beast, and I don't understand the love people continue to have for the new ones. Such silly trucks to drive primarily on smooth roads.
"GM...will drop in value like a rock"
Truth in advertising!
Interesting that your Terrain impressions are more positive than mine of the Equinox. I had one as a rental a couple years back while I had my Mazda in for small Deer surgery. On day 1 Enterprise had no car for me. On day 2 the Elantra they thought they had for me needed tires so I had to wait for this Combover. I don't know what trim it was, but it had a urethane wheel, the small MyLink screen, cloth seats, no driver assist systems, and at most 17" alloy wheels. 10 years ago they would've called it a 1LT but it may have been an LS since the new LT tends to be the successor to the 2LT. I thought the interior quality was about on par with a Rav4, but definitely worse than a CR-V. Also, I could not get comfortable in it. The dead pedal is in a bad place, being too far left and forward. I ended up putting my left foot where the clutch would be as a least worst option.
Positives: The engine was unremarkable in a generally good way, with sufficient power and 30+ MPG. It had adequate room, but no more.
In a rainstorm it misfired once, so I drove to the airport and swapped it for a Corolla. I liked the Corolla.
I can't remember a bad Corolla, really. Toyota cares about that car like Ford cares about the Super Duty.
The only state that had a real car listed as the top selling vehicle recently was Florida with the Corolla. It serves for the working class and as a last vehicle for the 'God's waiting room' population. Our rental got 40mpg highway but it handled like crap until I confirmed my suspicion that the tires were all at least 4# down.
As soon as I saw the background of white and black siding, I knew you were in TX!
It's certainly the latest trendy aesthetic. Hilarious to see people ruin perfectly good 90s brick facade homes with it, or worse yet poorly done rehabs of rural farm homes with this "rural chic/natural wood" aesthetic applied to an actual old rural farm house. The house of QX80 owners.
>latest trendy aesthetic
This shit is 3 years out of date already. You're unfortunately seeing these trends hit the latest adopters who don't seem to realize they're ruining perfectly great houses with those awful "rehabs."
"This shit is 3 years out of date already. "
Well I'd hate for you to deliver the bad news across the new luxury golf community being built out down the road from me.
I would LOVE to deliver that bad news.
It's been interesting to observe the habits of this crowd as the neighborhood has filled in.
In no particular order:
Tacky/poor taste in home exterior: beyond the usual white/black or grey/black motifs, there's one that's dark slate house with black trim/gutters with bright gold/orange highlighted sections of downspout(?)
million+ dollar homes on small lots with little privacy (in Indiana)- bizarre
every flavor of latest/greatest german performance crossover, Tesla, etc
They really love the very mediocre "high end" mexican place that opened down the street
Haven't made up my mind as to whether they have so much money that they simply don't care at all about any sense of "value" or that they are that big of idiots.
I'm sure you internally snickered at my black house but it's like that because I didn't want a white/black house and barn!
In my opinion there are two food types that should never be "high end"
0. Mexican
1. BBQ
Anything beyond a dingy trailer on the side of the road means you're just paying for overhead.
I had a 77 monte carlo, the interior of the cutlass might have been nicer looking, but both chevy and Pontiac had better looking sheet metal, and the Chevy came with a Chevrolet engine, where as the cutlass might come with an olds engine, or it might have come with the 305, which couldn’t get out of its own way, and likewise, the equinoxious looks better than the terrain, though underneath it is bolt for bolt the same vehicle, these were not even on my radar when I bought the Mazda cx-30, which comes with a 2.5 counterbalanced non paint shaker and a not very busy 6 speed torque converter automatic, not as large as the terrain, but at as refined.
Sir, this is where we will disagree.
The 1977 Cutlass Supreme is better looking than the Monte Carlo. This is DOUBLY so for the downsized 1978.
I think you are welcome to disagree, we all have our own tastes and opinions, I loved my moms 1968 cutlass s, that was gorgeous styling, and the 1977 was solidly malaise era.
You're free to be wrong, if that's what you are saying!
In truth, the stacked-lamp 1976-77 Monte has a lot of charm for me now. I didn't always feel that way. I think the Cutlass was the cleanest design, the Regal the most stately, and the Pontiac was kind of like a budget Stutz.
😂🤣🤣, not saying that at all! I am saying it is totally subjective! The monty had sculpted sides and a nice sight line over the front, I actually prefer a 73 over my 77 because you know…. Round headlight’s.
I think for the downsized 78, the Monte Carlo had the best look, followed by Regal, Cutlass, Grand Prix. For the Colonnade era (73-77), I think the initial 73s had the best design, starting with Buick, Pontiac (Grand Am nose!), Olds, Chevrolet. I think late Colonnades looked funky, with the square headlights and more blocky fronts/backs, while still having the curvy/swoopy lines.
I have the Terrain’s bigger sister; the Acadia, for my company car. I try hard not to like it as it looks plain Jane and is essentially a modern station wagon in both design and function, but every time I get behind the wheel I enjoy driving it. Very responsive motor, decent handling, and comfortable good quality interior. I don’t know how it’s going to last over the long haul, but if it’s anything like my trusty ‘11 Tahoe, it might do well in the durability department.
A bonus article. This year is getting better already.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, ya filthy animal.
Thank you for reading and subscribing! I'm planning on making this a big year for ACF.
Yeah, but where are the Bond girls we were promised!?
Really though, thanks for this, Jack. I would never read a Terrain review elsewhere, but yours is one of my favorite bits since you drove the Model 3. I'll continue to re-up my membership as long as you keep slinging jokes for us 14-year-olds-at-heart (looking at the "slut" pronunciation of one of GMC's long-running trim levels, and the continued digs at certain ZR1 into a wall members of the Ren Cen brass).
The 403 seems cool unless you were unlucky enough to find one in your Pontiac.
I drove a first generation Terrain when car shopping back in 2014 and I couldn’t think of a more soulless vehicle I’d ever piloted. I suppose it’s good to hear that they are a decent ride now.
Moreso it’s worth celebrating the loss of the GM 3.6 that has claimed an untold legion of the cross platform sub segment over the years. For a company that used to be a beacon in powertrain reliability, GM has certainly been downright abysmal lately.
I think the 1.5 shortcomings vs the RAV4 is tremendously more substantial in the secondhand used market. To buy one of these in 6-8yrs how long will it take someone before self destruction? This was the entire 3.6 plague and exactly why the boring RAV4 is still commanding money. It’s not always about the immediate now that continues to drive sales.
Ford has really screwed the pooch with its EcoBoost line accordingly. My sister is a victim with a 1.6 powered escape. They all suffer from coolant issue (cracking etc) and head gasket problems with a piss poor open deck design. It’s enough to make my old mid 90s turbo Mitsubishis seem indestructible. Long live the 4G63-T
In turn my workhorse Duratec 3.0 keeps churning out its unstoppable 240hp without issue as approach 160k. Too bad it’s rotting away around itself. Have to spend $43k for a Badlands Bronco Sport if you want like styled metrics.
What are the issues with the High Feature? I assumed it was the only non-V8 GM made that was made well.
All the 403s were absolute dogs. Junk heads, goofy cylinder spacing. Outside of a rocket 350 or a 455 they don’t seem to hold much water.
I was referring to the modern DOHC V6s, though a 403CID V6 would be something. Probably pretty high NVH.
They have a timing chain / tensioner issue. Originally they were slated to 5-7k oil change intervals iirc (we had one in a Vue). The chain tensioner is oil fed. As the oil breaks down the tensioner becomes less and less effective which starts causing chain stretch. Eventually they start throwing misfire codes on the rearward cam set and ending with failures on PTV contact or chain snapping entirely. The service is primarily done engine out.
It’s killed many, many, many vehicles.
I've heard the same problems are common in the Ecotec fours. Are the newer LFX/LGX any better?
I don’t much care for anything that uses a DOD design, but I know the later engines were popular for swapping into other platforms as they make pretty good power.
I understand they eat timing chains at 100K, especially if oil changes aren't perfect. I bet it holds up better in Camaros and Cadillacs than the budget priced crossovers because of the maintenance habits of the respective owners.
I wouldn't bank on the maintenance habits of the average V6 Camaro owner... just sayin lol
No love for Olds motors from me. They were always worse performers in every aspect to their Chevy counterparts. I've owned many, and they were all turds.
Open deck blocks are great unless you want to make power.
They work a lot better without forced induction. Unfortunately that’s all they see in that lineup.
Yay! Another piece of halfassery in the name of cutting costs!
Well yeah, 403-powered Trans Ams were an offense against God.
It's interesting that Toyota is the benchmark. I get it, they're the sales big boy, but I've driven them, and their competitors, and it's like they feel likt they can get away with cheaping them out. Ex. the current Tucson is a nice drive, and I genuinely prefer it to a lot of cars, explicitly the RAV.
They sell the most, and they were first to mainstream the segment with the Rav4 and the Harrier/Lexus RX. All of today's crossovers except the Outback descend from the Rav4/RX/Highlander trio.
Agreed on all counts -- but the Tucson, like the Terrain, is a dice roll for durability.
Prior to the current gen NX4, absolutely. The latest ones haven't been too bad with the NA 2.5 and 8spd auto.
Create a Terrain in sedan form with that 11.5L V12 and Regency interior trim.
Otherwise piss off.
it might actually be more eco friendly to simply light gas on fire than that v12
It would be FAR more eco friendly to just tow the Terrain sedan around with a Duramax 3500 "tender" that only hooked up when acceleration was required.