Exhibit A of the near-limitless power of the current government: A public corporation abandoned a product whose design and tooling was paid off decades ago, yet was still responsible for printing money nearly at a rate to make a production manager at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing envious.
And this was done "willingly" to appease, and avoid punishment from, the Powers in Charge.
A. Is your user a reference for Ice Nine Kills? If so, rad.
B. Nobody is more sick to their stomach from EV pipe dreaming and government mandates than those living close to Lordstown, OH. All we’ve had for the past 10 years are empty promises, con men and money funneling. It’s almost like watching the White House at work in real time. Yet we have the least amount of required infrastructure directly to support it all the same.
Probably a reference to Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle, or the Grateful Dead, whose music publishing company took the name, a secondhand reference to Vonnegut. Ice Nine is a fictional crystalline form of water that causes other water to freeze.
Perhaps. “Ice Nine Kills” is a metal/core band that kinda crosses a few genres but it’s rather known for “horror metal” and general theatrical metal.
Name wise for the band your guess is as good as mine. There was even an Ice Nine FPS video game they might’ve named themselves after as a joke. As for the OP I suppose he’ll have to fill us in on his own usage.
Ice Nice Kills was the genesis of the username, which the first time I heard of them, also triggered the long forgotten Vonnegut reference from reading that book in highschool. Since I live in a place that is generally below freezing for 6 months a year, seemed fitting.
It is a scientifically proven fact (I read it in a science journal) that people using the word “ice” at the beginning of a username are smarter, more attractive to women, better looking and more successful than other people.
This is a pipe dream, but the auto manufacturers should have told Big Government to pound sand on every EV mandate. Big Government would have then told automakers “then we’ll put you out of business” and the reply should have been “sure, go ahead, you explain to the American people why you just put a few million people out of work”.
Really stupid of the automakers not to tell Big Government “you don’t own us, WE own YOU!”
Public opinion is against the automakers in that arena. Push back against the regs and any number of GOs and NGOs will crush you with their limitless propaganda. Sadly, this has to run its course.
Prior to the last few years, I wouldn't have considered a Toyota or Lexus, but now Mr. Toyoda's stance it has me considering going that way, and pushing my dad to look at an IS350 to replace his S60. I just wish we got a Land Cruiser 300, as I'd probably be driving one today.
It's a very reasoned and principled stance: they can make about 50 hybrids using the resources it takes to make a single EV. And which one will save more resources in the aggregate?
BTW, you're probably talking Land Cruiser 100 or 200. The 300 is available today and is called the LX600. But that "600" does NOT mean 6 liter V-8; somewhere buried in very small print they say it's a 3.5L twin turbo V6. For $102,000.
Nope, I mean Land Cruiser 300. I didn't want to pay $80k for a used 200 in good shape. The TT V6 doesn't bother me, I bought an Expedition but would've preferred the regular Land Cruiser 300 for $80-90k. Sure I could've gotten an LX600 but going over $90k (LXs were going for $150 at the time with markup) was just way too expensive, and for how we use it the extra lux stuff on the Lexus is overkill.
Japan has no petroleum reserves of which to speak. They already are highly dependent on electricity generated with nuclear power. The country's biggest and most influential car company, Toyota, arguably the best run car company in the world, is just about the only international car company that hasn't pledged conversion to the EV religion. I think Akio may be on to something.
BMW is pretty good, too. And Tavares has often said inconvenient truths. The rest will be backpedaling. So rewarding to see the likes of Mrs. Barra and the entire automotive rainbow press fail so spectacularly.
i seriously doubt this will happen; i have older cars as a standby. and how long would it take for the car fleet to transition (excuse me) to all having this feature?
You will probably be able to avoid it personally, but do you not doubt that it will become a requirement on new cars? I think they're already mostly equipped with Breathalyzers.
The FMCSA (Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration) is already trying to foist speed restrictors on semi trucks, which has happened a while ago in Europe. If you think being stuck behind a semi who is in the left land on the Interstate for two miles is maddening now, wait till the Kenworth with the 66 mph limiter decides he doesn't want to be behind the Volvo with the 65 mph limiter.
I expect to see some trickle-down from commercial regulations into the private world.
One example: Electronic Logging Devices (ELD) are now mandatory in the USA and Canada. Commercial drivers driving over a certain distance away from home base have always had to record their daily work and rest hours, and locations traveled to, on paper logs. Commercial drivers have limits on how many hours a day/week they can drive, called Hours in Service.
The new ELDs use GPS and/or cell data to record the truck's locations. This data is currently held locally on the device (or can be transmitted back to the carrier's office), and the only time the truck cops will look at it is during an inspection, in a manner effectively no different from the truck cop reviewing your paper log. The ELD is plugged into the truck's data port (think OBD-II port, but different protocol) and also records the times the truck is moving, speed of the truck, and who knows what other parameters.
However it is a minuscule leap of technology to just stream all that data directly to the truck cops in real time. They have weigh-in-motions systems already, what's to say they can just flag the truck as it rolls by the weigh station for a HOS violation.
Some people are already plugging logging devices into their cars, helpfully provided by their insurance company, so that they can get a small discount on their insurance.
The next logical step is for the friendly state trooper to download your logging device as he has you pulled over on the side of the highway so he can see just how many times you hit triple digit speeds, and hell, how many stop signs you rolled through. Or the cops can just send you a ticket in the mail for your speeding infractions based on the data from your personal logging device.
Obviously there are lots of privacy concerns, though people seem to increasingly be willing to sacrifice privacy for the God of Safety.
I’d like to see SixPack vs Scat Pack on a road course. Six should absolutely demolish the Scat into and through the corners thanks to what I assume to be a thousand pounds mass penalty for the EV, but given good corner exit and a long straight or two the Scat could make up the difference.
Geez. My immensely roomy and comfortable XTS, with AWD, checks in at 4200 lbs. Drop the AWD and you are down to an even 4000. The Charger weight is nuts.
Just saying: I think it looks awesome. The Hurricane is fine, the Hemi would be even better and when the tide changes, it may well come back. Let's work on the political framework to make this possible, no?
Some of you might recall I recently bought a 23 Challenger GT RWD. Just an inexpensive, nice highway car (perfect for long road trips) for me or me and my girlfriend.
Today I am driving home and going past a school that is just letting out with police and crossing guards everywhere.
I am going super slow with the windows down and hear a bunch of little kids yelling from the sidewalk. Finally, I relaize they are yelling at me! "Rev It" they are yelling.
I am a little sorry that they think I have a Hellcat, so I lie a little and tell them I can't because of the cops. However, it gave me a smile that these little kids know what a Challenger is and are excited about a car with a big V8.
Before I got my Hemi I talked to one of the Dad’s at my kid’s acting class who had a Challenger all kitted out with factory stripes and hood scoops. Told him I loved Hemis and wanted to get one. To which he had to sheepishly admit that his was a six! Definitely fooled me. I always check the badge now!
Mine is plain jane white with the blacktop package so no poser boy. I had a 2017 Ram reg cab, rwd, blackout everything with a hemi. Put a Borla exhaust on it and had some fun, but got tired of it and decided the 3.6 was just fine. It does not mean I have let the old man in.
I mean, I'm a cheap retard who goes around buying massively depreciated, decade old luxury cars and DIYing maintenance.
Unlike all of the legacy OEs, Tesla is profitable selling something like that at 40k. Which is incidentally what you'd have paid a few years ago for a pony car that traps around the same speed.
Put another way: would you spend another 30k for better styling on the Dodge?
As far as looks I absolutely love it. I remember expressing my desire for a Challenger sedan with awkward rear doors in the vain of a 70's Dodge Monaco, and Chrysler delivered without the awkward doors. A gorgeous sheer look, a breath of fresh air after more than a decade of increasingly fast and furious angry mopars. I am extremely happy that a new big American sedan is being produced in any form, let alone this one. The coupe still has a backseat with a window!
I've owned my one plain silver Challenger since 2015, its a 2014 base model, silver, no interior gadgets, no sunroof, no bluetooth, no cameras. A former service loaner with new rear tires and front brakes. 22,500. I had "V8 is superior" thoughts when shopping for it, but I'll admit that their salesman was lucky I was standing behind the car when he fired it up, because it sounds downright scrumptous. Quiet hum up to 2000, building grumbly burble at 2500, pulley whine as you climb past 3000, then barks as it bounces off of 6500. The torque is not that linear, but your brain must be fried on Hellcat or Plaid crack to not enjoy the driving experience. I've driven a Caravan with the same power train, but 25 less horses, no dual exhaust, and front wheel drive. The Caravan understeered but didn't slouch, but all the audio character was muffled out of it. Nobody has heard this new engine yet, but I have heard Infiniti's 3.0t V6 and it sounds good, but Ford's 3.5t sounds like a fart, so bad they have to fake the engine sound. I'm hoping the target market of Dodge Chargers ridicules fake exhaust enough to make it sound decent, because they have the chops to do so. The only thing preventing this from being my next car: the cost. I don't need or want to pay for 420hp. I would love an inline six without the turbos with 300hp, the tuner crowd would probably like it too. (You can also keep the extra drive shaft).
As far as my old car, the left door is relentless dented. I had a body shop clean up done by a plow right next to the door, someone recently put a scratch through the same spot. I got rust holes in the corner of the rocker panels similar to a 2000's pickup. The last thing I had to fix on it was a leaking oil filter housing, and that was two years ago. All 4 brake calipers were replaced during different brake jobs, sway bar end links, thermostat, hood rubber weather strip. I give it more fluids than its needs, no belts, no chains, no pumps. The headers are supposed to crack, but that hasn't happened yet. I hope one of these will be my next car, but it will more likely be a last year Chrysler 300.
Bravo to Ralph Gilles and the multinational team at Stellantis, for continuing to believe in and produce new American cars.
The Hurricane, like all modern engines, LOOKS terrible. You open the hood and it's a thoughtless pile of wires and black plastic. It looks like the old liquor box I have in the garage that's full of old wiring harnesses and junk.
I just bought another Roadmaster wagon. Gold, 94, might have a hurt engine but no big deal, I have another in the garage. That makes four B-bodies in the stable. I can still get most parts and there are enough weirdos like me out there that I can get the rest of what I need. I’m prepared for our Cuban future.
The anti-EV mob here at ACF is strong, but has this right. Unless a Hemi fits, even as an after the fact crate install, this is a dead platform well beyond the single 2-4 door Charger. The curb weight is a killer, 1000-1200 lbs too much - 5900! not including the fast models added bloat. A Lightning ER is 6400, a EV9 5700. Hedging bets is one thing and applauded, but losing badly in both EV and ICE because of the tradeoffs has doomed them. The RamCharger was a good move, but wow they screwed the pooch here except for the styling. Kneel in front of your government overlords and have your heads lopped off.
A comment on warranty vs. cost of ownership/maintenance/repair. With the possible exception of hybrids, cost of ownership under the battery warranty is definitely cheaper than ICE - oils changes, differentials, brakes, timing belts, water pumps. However, those in the industry saying warranty costs are more, not surprised with recalls, battery problems, etc. TCO with the EV secondary market, even the pro-EV'ers have to admit that's a bad comp.
Apologies for interrupting the CNN-Fox EV debate, carry-on.
I've never had to change a water pump or differential; the last timing belt change was done on a Maserati after a decade of driving; even my brakes tend to last for many years. In fact, with the sole exception of oil changes (cheap, and intervals keep growing), those awesome, crushing "ICE" costs you are alluding to will pretty much begin to materialize when the average electric "car" has reached its comprehensive expiration date.
I don't know how strong the mob actually is. I bet there's a lot of interest in a task-appropriate EV.
Now, if we're talking MANDATORY EV, or having a cherished V-8 car replaced by an EV with a blown six as an option at some point in the future -- yeah, the pitchforks are coming out.
Exactly. There is a valid place for EVs. But not at the expense of all other technology, existing (oil based) or future.
In the alternate reality where the governments of the world were not forcing EV tech into the market at a rate that is completely against the market's will (and ability to absorb it), there would be nice EV options at your local Dodge dealership, which you could (have the OPTION to!) chose for your city runabout or fixed distance commuting car.
But parked in front of those battery-powered Dodges, at the front of the showroom, there would be a screaming Hellkitty Redline-Markup Widebody SRT Pinkeye Prison-Break Supercharged Demon Scat, beckoning you buy it, jump in and leave two smoking black streaks out of the parking lot and a trail of heavily burned hydrocarbons in your wake.
The valid place for EVs is microscopic as it would be devoid of any subsidies or unfairly preferential taxation. Scooters and E-bikes could be another story in high-trust cities where you don't need to drag these fire hazards into your hallway every night - i.e., nowhere.
Why is everyone so bent on the weight of the EV? No one seems to rail on the weight of model S, G80 EV or Taycan that are smaller and We've known that adding motors and a huge battery to a car adds significant weight to a vehicle, and the the case of the latter vehicles, 5-800lbs over their gas counterparts.
It might be a bit of agitation from years of hearing how large, heavy cars are KILLING US all, and endless invective directed against vehicles like my 4,467-pound Chrysler 300C, only to have the media ignore the weight of this piggy.
Or the weight of the Model S, which is heavier than your 300C and smaller. It's obvious hypocrisy even from the media, but why are we engaging in it? They never complained about Teslas weight. They extolled the virtues. They are only going to complain about weight if its from an ICE, no?
I get a kick out of how the respect the earth don't waste stuff crowd is embracing EVs, which seem to consume more of everything (particulate from heavy EVs' tires is in the news today) except gasoline.
I can remember when the green crowd made fun of "big, heavy, American cars." Now they want us to drive 3 ton sleds, well, until they find out about the tire thing and start banning EVs too. I think the ultimate goal is to ban all private motorized transportation that can't be shut off with the click of a button in Lansing, Washington, or Brussels.
I'll be interested in seeing how they price the gasoline powered Hurricane version vs the EV and if Chrysler is going to put their thumb on the scale by making the gas version more expensive. If they are price equally, I can't see the take rate on the EV to be higher than 25%.
The EV comes out first then the Hurricane after, correct? If so, it will be interesting to see the sales figures for the two staggered like that. If the EV comes out first and sells moderately well, then the Hurricane comes out and it sells better… or even if its vice versa, that will say a lot.
Either way, I would doubt the company formally known as Chrysler would put it’s thumb on the pricing scale. What would they have to gain? Isn’t the ICE Hurricane there to hedge their bets? If the Dems and Biden get dumped 2024, I reckon we can kiss all those EV and fuel economy mandates good bye. And because of the ICE Charger, Chy-lantis won’t be left with nothing but multiple month supplies of rolling piles of EV crap on the dealer lots. (As opposed to GM who you CAN kiss good bye because of choices made by the CEO)
Speaking of putting a thumb on the scale, I think it was pretty ballsy of Stellantis, back during the car shortage, to restrict deliveries of gasoline powered Jeeps to non-EV mandate states. In Calif, you could have all the Wrangler 4XE's you wanted, but the ICE version was special order only.
yeah, that's nice. It's nice to see the customer face direct consequences of what their government's been doing, within reason -- 9/11 being more than reasonable.
I think it's a cool looking car but the electric drive train and subsequent 5800 pound curb weight are both turn offs for me. Not to mention, It's too expensive.
So has no one really touched on the irony that a 6000lb electric car is called a CHARGER?!
I mean come on now...
0. ‘Cause zero.
1. Some days I’m almost glad I got away from the car design world. I’d have either been fired for insubordination or I’d be running the department. No in-between. I’m both passionate and opinionated which has either had me loved or hated. But enough about me.
2. I lamented the first year release on the 2005 Charger namesake. They had made an icon a horrible looking four door. Given the fact I hated about every last aspect of 2005 dodge design language that makes sense. I suppose my point is that eventually with this last hero run, the Charger became a car I’d genuinely want to own. A missing pedal is the only real hold back. Sooooo, maybe I should reserve some hope and judgement for the Hoodville Hellcat (hilarious btw) and give it time to mature. I lost enough industry friends ranting about how ugly a base c7 was (I stand by it) to see the beauty of the widebody variants. Maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised.
3. Do you think these will be harder to steal? 6000lbs should make some great sideshow carnage. Perhaps they’ve reinforced the rear quarters for when they smack a 350 female welfare recipient with them.
3.1 Can you imagine the pit maneuvers with these once OSHP replenishes the fleet with these monsters?
4. I guess I’ll pour one out and watch Dirty Mary Crazy Larry or something. At least this one has a full grill like a ‘67/68 - the best looking ones ever. Split grill chargers never really got me going although I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Duke Boys and correct enough, I’ll cheer everyday otherwise for the pig ass Mustang in Bullitt.
5. Speaking of old shit I’d rather have. I just spent the last few weekends fixing and restoring a vintage Zenith console / credenza style record player. Just like the older cars, the sound is probably worse quality on paper, but the authenticity and richness of enjoyment makes it all the more special. Things don’t need to be the newest, they just need to be worthwhile. Now I just need to hit up some garage sales or marketplace ads vs spending $35+ a pop as the hipsters do to replace the music I like.
Depends on the vintage of the console. In any case, the turntable is probably dangerous to records, unless there's something like a Dual or Garrard, but if the electronics have tubes I'm sure they sounds fine.
In the basement of my son's apartment building, someone abandoned a ~1960 vintage RCA console that was probably the bottom of the line then. It had a nice little integrated tube amplifier with a single ended power section. Not a lot of power, but it sounds pretty good.
The Dual sites don't mention a 1099, so maybe it's a 1009 or even better a 1019. Some folks are prejudiced against idler wheel turntables but with proper maintenance they're fine and with a decent cartridge it'd probably sound at least as good as a $300-$500 U-Turn or Pro-Ject table. Those 1000 series Duals are built like German stuff used to be built.
I’m trying to pin down a year for it, I’m thinking early to mid 70s by its styling. It’s a tube style unit. The chassis is a 20AT21 or 20AT21Z by the build sticker but they used that code over many years. It’s a 120volt 60 Hertz .57 Amperes so not too crazy but enough to sound good. The turntable itself is some “Genuine Diamond Stylus” labeled unit. I know very little about the brands from what I could dig up that was like their mainline player across their better models. I also found the number I49 413 on the back and a 06 9 02 under it. I’ve not been able to come up with anything.
Anyhow it was free. The cabinet was an anniversary gift to a friend’s grandmother. The husband long passed, she’s moving out and it was given to me by my own request. Was all frozen up. Nevertheless it’s got some sentimental value. Worst case scenario over time is I gut it and fit it with modern electronics but this is fine to just enjoy.
I’m retarded... they are giant transistors I was looking at. Thought they were tubes. Another time it’d be helpful if Substack had image hosting but I know that would be a deep rabbit hole.
Exhibit A of the near-limitless power of the current government: A public corporation abandoned a product whose design and tooling was paid off decades ago, yet was still responsible for printing money nearly at a rate to make a production manager at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing envious.
And this was done "willingly" to appease, and avoid punishment from, the Powers in Charge.
Since I was scolded for numeric fallacy:
A. Is your user a reference for Ice Nine Kills? If so, rad.
B. Nobody is more sick to their stomach from EV pipe dreaming and government mandates than those living close to Lordstown, OH. All we’ve had for the past 10 years are empty promises, con men and money funneling. It’s almost like watching the White House at work in real time. Yet we have the least amount of required infrastructure directly to support it all the same.
Probably a reference to Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle, or the Grateful Dead, whose music publishing company took the name, a secondhand reference to Vonnegut. Ice Nine is a fictional crystalline form of water that causes other water to freeze.
Perhaps. “Ice Nine Kills” is a metal/core band that kinda crosses a few genres but it’s rather known for “horror metal” and general theatrical metal.
Name wise for the band your guess is as good as mine. There was even an Ice Nine FPS video game they might’ve named themselves after as a joke. As for the OP I suppose he’ll have to fill us in on his own usage.
Ice Nice Kills was the genesis of the username, which the first time I heard of them, also triggered the long forgotten Vonnegut reference from reading that book in highschool. Since I live in a place that is generally below freezing for 6 months a year, seemed fitting.
Whatever its origin, it's a good username.
Sounds like a great sci fi movie or techno thriller novel to me.
It is a scientifically proven fact (I read it in a science journal) that people using the word “ice” at the beginning of a username are smarter, more attractive to women, better looking and more successful than other people.
This is a pipe dream, but the auto manufacturers should have told Big Government to pound sand on every EV mandate. Big Government would have then told automakers “then we’ll put you out of business” and the reply should have been “sure, go ahead, you explain to the American people why you just put a few million people out of work”.
Really stupid of the automakers not to tell Big Government “you don’t own us, WE own YOU!”
Public opinion is against the automakers in that arena. Push back against the regs and any number of GOs and NGOs will crush you with their limitless propaganda. Sadly, this has to run its course.
It is not sad. It is infuriating.
Prior to the last few years, I wouldn't have considered a Toyota or Lexus, but now Mr. Toyoda's stance it has me considering going that way, and pushing my dad to look at an IS350 to replace his S60. I just wish we got a Land Cruiser 300, as I'd probably be driving one today.
It's a very reasoned and principled stance: they can make about 50 hybrids using the resources it takes to make a single EV. And which one will save more resources in the aggregate?
BTW, you're probably talking Land Cruiser 100 or 200. The 300 is available today and is called the LX600. But that "600" does NOT mean 6 liter V-8; somewhere buried in very small print they say it's a 3.5L twin turbo V6. For $102,000.
Nope, I mean Land Cruiser 300. I didn't want to pay $80k for a used 200 in good shape. The TT V6 doesn't bother me, I bought an Expedition but would've preferred the regular Land Cruiser 300 for $80-90k. Sure I could've gotten an LX600 but going over $90k (LXs were going for $150 at the time with markup) was just way too expensive, and for how we use it the extra lux stuff on the Lexus is overkill.
Japan has no petroleum reserves of which to speak. They already are highly dependent on electricity generated with nuclear power. The country's biggest and most influential car company, Toyota, arguably the best run car company in the world, is just about the only international car company that hasn't pledged conversion to the EV religion. I think Akio may be on to something.
BMW is pretty good, too. And Tavares has often said inconvenient truths. The rest will be backpedaling. So rewarding to see the likes of Mrs. Barra and the entire automotive rainbow press fail so spectacularly.
Same thing Ford did when they dumped the Crown Vic and Ranger.
Well TBH ;
The Panther chassis wasn't selling that well apart from fleets and GRANMArquis' .
I concur with the Ranger, WTH Ford ? .
-Nate
Yeah, but every P71 they sold was almost pure profit.
Apparently not enough profit to remain in production.....
So. Cal. is loaded with ex P.D. cars and GRANMArquis' too .
-Nate
Ford easily could have slapped an awkward bulked up nose on it like the Tacoma and Frontier. It really needed wider tires though.
i seriously doubt this will happen; i have older cars as a standby. and how long would it take for the car fleet to transition (excuse me) to all having this feature?
You will probably be able to avoid it personally, but do you not doubt that it will become a requirement on new cars? I think they're already mostly equipped with Breathalyzers.
This was supposed to be parody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSsUoxlSADk&pp=ygUXZHVjayBzb3VwIG1hcnggYnJvdGhlcnM%3D
Marxism: the good kind :)
https://gobacktothepast.com/abkhazia-groucho-marx-john-lennon/
The FMCSA (Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration) is already trying to foist speed restrictors on semi trucks, which has happened a while ago in Europe. If you think being stuck behind a semi who is in the left land on the Interstate for two miles is maddening now, wait till the Kenworth with the 66 mph limiter decides he doesn't want to be behind the Volvo with the 65 mph limiter.
We're already seeing this with the trucks that are governed to 80 by their fleet carriers. Lotta 81-down-the-hill-and-63-up side-by-sides.
I expect to see some trickle-down from commercial regulations into the private world.
One example: Electronic Logging Devices (ELD) are now mandatory in the USA and Canada. Commercial drivers driving over a certain distance away from home base have always had to record their daily work and rest hours, and locations traveled to, on paper logs. Commercial drivers have limits on how many hours a day/week they can drive, called Hours in Service.
The new ELDs use GPS and/or cell data to record the truck's locations. This data is currently held locally on the device (or can be transmitted back to the carrier's office), and the only time the truck cops will look at it is during an inspection, in a manner effectively no different from the truck cop reviewing your paper log. The ELD is plugged into the truck's data port (think OBD-II port, but different protocol) and also records the times the truck is moving, speed of the truck, and who knows what other parameters.
However it is a minuscule leap of technology to just stream all that data directly to the truck cops in real time. They have weigh-in-motions systems already, what's to say they can just flag the truck as it rolls by the weigh station for a HOS violation.
Some people are already plugging logging devices into their cars, helpfully provided by their insurance company, so that they can get a small discount on their insurance.
The next logical step is for the friendly state trooper to download your logging device as he has you pulled over on the side of the highway so he can see just how many times you hit triple digit speeds, and hell, how many stop signs you rolled through. Or the cops can just send you a ticket in the mail for your speeding infractions based on the data from your personal logging device.
Obviously there are lots of privacy concerns, though people seem to increasingly be willing to sacrifice privacy for the God of Safety.
I’d like to see SixPack vs Scat Pack on a road course. Six should absolutely demolish the Scat into and through the corners thanks to what I assume to be a thousand pounds mass penalty for the EV, but given good corner exit and a long straight or two the Scat could make up the difference.
Geez. My immensely roomy and comfortable XTS, with AWD, checks in at 4200 lbs. Drop the AWD and you are down to an even 4000. The Charger weight is nuts.
Just saying: I think it looks awesome. The Hurricane is fine, the Hemi would be even better and when the tide changes, it may well come back. Let's work on the political framework to make this possible, no?
Thought I couldn’t be happier that I bought a new Challenger R/T with a Tremec and then I saw this!
Have to share a cute story from today.
Some of you might recall I recently bought a 23 Challenger GT RWD. Just an inexpensive, nice highway car (perfect for long road trips) for me or me and my girlfriend.
Today I am driving home and going past a school that is just letting out with police and crossing guards everywhere.
I am going super slow with the windows down and hear a bunch of little kids yelling from the sidewalk. Finally, I relaize they are yelling at me! "Rev It" they are yelling.
I am a little sorry that they think I have a Hellcat, so I lie a little and tell them I can't because of the cops. However, it gave me a smile that these little kids know what a Challenger is and are excited about a car with a big V8.
Before I got my Hemi I talked to one of the Dad’s at my kid’s acting class who had a Challenger all kitted out with factory stripes and hood scoops. Told him I loved Hemis and wanted to get one. To which he had to sheepishly admit that his was a six! Definitely fooled me. I always check the badge now!
Mine is plain jane white with the blacktop package so no poser boy. I had a 2017 Ram reg cab, rwd, blackout everything with a hemi. Put a Borla exhaust on it and had some fun, but got tired of it and decided the 3.6 was just fine. It does not mean I have let the old man in.
See? You were right to buy it. And you'll STAY right.
Late to the party but.... This thing weighs 5800lbs..
Besides styling, why is anyone going to buy this over the upcoming Model 3 Ludacris, which should make similar power and weigh 1000lbs less?
Has musk delivered anything on time and in spec? I wouldn't hold my breath. Plus, it's a polluting, dildo shaped tech bro car. Why?
You can buy a model 3 LR today that traps around 114 for not very much money.
If bad styling completely dissuaded people from buying vehicles, panamera sales would also be 0
I guess when you got the government subsidizing it, not very much money makes sense. But what do I know, I'm poor.
I mean, I'm a cheap retard who goes around buying massively depreciated, decade old luxury cars and DIYing maintenance.
Unlike all of the legacy OEs, Tesla is profitable selling something like that at 40k. Which is incidentally what you'd have paid a few years ago for a pony car that traps around the same speed.
Put another way: would you spend another 30k for better styling on the Dodge?
Depends on your definition of profit. I wouldn't. I'd pay less than 40k on a used camaro ss 1LE and be ahead.
And I would buy a used Jag for this application, and did, but people out there are throwing utterly retarded money at new cars
As far as looks I absolutely love it. I remember expressing my desire for a Challenger sedan with awkward rear doors in the vain of a 70's Dodge Monaco, and Chrysler delivered without the awkward doors. A gorgeous sheer look, a breath of fresh air after more than a decade of increasingly fast and furious angry mopars. I am extremely happy that a new big American sedan is being produced in any form, let alone this one. The coupe still has a backseat with a window!
I've owned my one plain silver Challenger since 2015, its a 2014 base model, silver, no interior gadgets, no sunroof, no bluetooth, no cameras. A former service loaner with new rear tires and front brakes. 22,500. I had "V8 is superior" thoughts when shopping for it, but I'll admit that their salesman was lucky I was standing behind the car when he fired it up, because it sounds downright scrumptous. Quiet hum up to 2000, building grumbly burble at 2500, pulley whine as you climb past 3000, then barks as it bounces off of 6500. The torque is not that linear, but your brain must be fried on Hellcat or Plaid crack to not enjoy the driving experience. I've driven a Caravan with the same power train, but 25 less horses, no dual exhaust, and front wheel drive. The Caravan understeered but didn't slouch, but all the audio character was muffled out of it. Nobody has heard this new engine yet, but I have heard Infiniti's 3.0t V6 and it sounds good, but Ford's 3.5t sounds like a fart, so bad they have to fake the engine sound. I'm hoping the target market of Dodge Chargers ridicules fake exhaust enough to make it sound decent, because they have the chops to do so. The only thing preventing this from being my next car: the cost. I don't need or want to pay for 420hp. I would love an inline six without the turbos with 300hp, the tuner crowd would probably like it too. (You can also keep the extra drive shaft).
As far as my old car, the left door is relentless dented. I had a body shop clean up done by a plow right next to the door, someone recently put a scratch through the same spot. I got rust holes in the corner of the rocker panels similar to a 2000's pickup. The last thing I had to fix on it was a leaking oil filter housing, and that was two years ago. All 4 brake calipers were replaced during different brake jobs, sway bar end links, thermostat, hood rubber weather strip. I give it more fluids than its needs, no belts, no chains, no pumps. The headers are supposed to crack, but that hasn't happened yet. I hope one of these will be my next car, but it will more likely be a last year Chrysler 300.
Bravo to Ralph Gilles and the multinational team at Stellantis, for continuing to believe in and produce new American cars.
The (EV) spice must flow.
...Watched Dune Part 2 last night.
Fuck the EV shit. I'll take the I6 turbo. At least it talks to you before spreading your butt cheeks
The Hurricane, like all modern engines, LOOKS terrible. You open the hood and it's a thoughtless pile of wires and black plastic. It looks like the old liquor box I have in the garage that's full of old wiring harnesses and junk.
And it's probably not THAT much more likely to blow up!
I just bought another Roadmaster wagon. Gold, 94, might have a hurt engine but no big deal, I have another in the garage. That makes four B-bodies in the stable. I can still get most parts and there are enough weirdos like me out there that I can get the rest of what I need. I’m prepared for our Cuban future.
Make the "Cuban Slide" a Dance Again (not transportation policy)
Imagine having a bunch of shitty old wagons instead of the latest and greatest clean EV technology.
I'm imagining it right now
It seems great
The anti-EV mob here at ACF is strong, but has this right. Unless a Hemi fits, even as an after the fact crate install, this is a dead platform well beyond the single 2-4 door Charger. The curb weight is a killer, 1000-1200 lbs too much - 5900! not including the fast models added bloat. A Lightning ER is 6400, a EV9 5700. Hedging bets is one thing and applauded, but losing badly in both EV and ICE because of the tradeoffs has doomed them. The RamCharger was a good move, but wow they screwed the pooch here except for the styling. Kneel in front of your government overlords and have your heads lopped off.
A comment on warranty vs. cost of ownership/maintenance/repair. With the possible exception of hybrids, cost of ownership under the battery warranty is definitely cheaper than ICE - oils changes, differentials, brakes, timing belts, water pumps. However, those in the industry saying warranty costs are more, not surprised with recalls, battery problems, etc. TCO with the EV secondary market, even the pro-EV'ers have to admit that's a bad comp.
Apologies for interrupting the CNN-Fox EV debate, carry-on.
I've never had to change a water pump or differential; the last timing belt change was done on a Maserati after a decade of driving; even my brakes tend to last for many years. In fact, with the sole exception of oil changes (cheap, and intervals keep growing), those awesome, crushing "ICE" costs you are alluding to will pretty much begin to materialize when the average electric "car" has reached its comprehensive expiration date.
"We have found a witch! May we burn her?"
I don't know how strong the mob actually is. I bet there's a lot of interest in a task-appropriate EV.
Now, if we're talking MANDATORY EV, or having a cherished V-8 car replaced by an EV with a blown six as an option at some point in the future -- yeah, the pitchforks are coming out.
Damn fucking right!!
You know that the lefties want to shove the fucking golf carts right down our throats!
Any left-leaning folk on here who DON’T believe that are useful idiots!
I can imagine that the engineers had to fight tooth and nail for a six.
The future Winston, is four turbocharged cylinders stomping on a human face, but not quite forever.
*3 cylinders
Exactly. There is a valid place for EVs. But not at the expense of all other technology, existing (oil based) or future.
In the alternate reality where the governments of the world were not forcing EV tech into the market at a rate that is completely against the market's will (and ability to absorb it), there would be nice EV options at your local Dodge dealership, which you could (have the OPTION to!) chose for your city runabout or fixed distance commuting car.
But parked in front of those battery-powered Dodges, at the front of the showroom, there would be a screaming Hellkitty Redline-Markup Widebody SRT Pinkeye Prison-Break Supercharged Demon Scat, beckoning you buy it, jump in and leave two smoking black streaks out of the parking lot and a trail of heavily burned hydrocarbons in your wake.
Turboelectric, yes. Fusionelectric, yes.
Battery electric? Sure, for Club Cars and Tokyo neighborhood runabouts.
The valid place for EVs is microscopic as it would be devoid of any subsidies or unfairly preferential taxation. Scooters and E-bikes could be another story in high-trust cities where you don't need to drag these fire hazards into your hallway every night - i.e., nowhere.
Nearly poetry!
Why is everyone so bent on the weight of the EV? No one seems to rail on the weight of model S, G80 EV or Taycan that are smaller and We've known that adding motors and a huge battery to a car adds significant weight to a vehicle, and the the case of the latter vehicles, 5-800lbs over their gas counterparts.
Because three tons is verging on parody?
It might be a bit of agitation from years of hearing how large, heavy cars are KILLING US all, and endless invective directed against vehicles like my 4,467-pound Chrysler 300C, only to have the media ignore the weight of this piggy.
Or the weight of the Model S, which is heavier than your 300C and smaller. It's obvious hypocrisy even from the media, but why are we engaging in it? They never complained about Teslas weight. They extolled the virtues. They are only going to complain about weight if its from an ICE, no?
This!
This thing weighs 800 pounds more than a 1974 Chrysler Imperial Coupe.
And is twice as absurd.
I get a kick out of how the respect the earth don't waste stuff crowd is embracing EVs, which seem to consume more of everything (particulate from heavy EVs' tires is in the news today) except gasoline.
I can remember when the green crowd made fun of "big, heavy, American cars." Now they want us to drive 3 ton sleds, well, until they find out about the tire thing and start banning EVs too. I think the ultimate goal is to ban all private motorized transportation that can't be shut off with the click of a button in Lansing, Washington, or Brussels.
That IS the goal.
Oh, and notice how no one ever mocks the S-Class or A8 for weighing as much as they do?
Last time I checked, the Mercedes-Benz EQA - a GLA ruined by an electric powertrain - came in heavier than a six-cylinder S-Class.
I do, because my Jaguar XJ weighs in at 4200lbs, or 400ish lbs more than a current Z06
I'll be interested in seeing how they price the gasoline powered Hurricane version vs the EV and if Chrysler is going to put their thumb on the scale by making the gas version more expensive. If they are price equally, I can't see the take rate on the EV to be higher than 25%.
The EV comes out first then the Hurricane after, correct? If so, it will be interesting to see the sales figures for the two staggered like that. If the EV comes out first and sells moderately well, then the Hurricane comes out and it sells better… or even if its vice versa, that will say a lot.
Either way, I would doubt the company formally known as Chrysler would put it’s thumb on the pricing scale. What would they have to gain? Isn’t the ICE Hurricane there to hedge their bets? If the Dems and Biden get dumped 2024, I reckon we can kiss all those EV and fuel economy mandates good bye. And because of the ICE Charger, Chy-lantis won’t be left with nothing but multiple month supplies of rolling piles of EV crap on the dealer lots. (As opposed to GM who you CAN kiss good bye because of choices made by the CEO)
Speaking of putting a thumb on the scale, I think it was pretty ballsy of Stellantis, back during the car shortage, to restrict deliveries of gasoline powered Jeeps to non-EV mandate states. In Calif, you could have all the Wrangler 4XE's you wanted, but the ICE version was special order only.
yeah, that's nice. It's nice to see the customer face direct consequences of what their government's been doing, within reason -- 9/11 being more than reasonable.
I think it's a cool looking car but the electric drive train and subsequent 5800 pound curb weight are both turn offs for me. Not to mention, It's too expensive.
The design of the rear greenhouse makes me think of it as a '68 R/T that got promoted at work and no longer had time to hit the gym.
So has no one really touched on the irony that a 6000lb electric car is called a CHARGER?!
I mean come on now...
0. ‘Cause zero.
1. Some days I’m almost glad I got away from the car design world. I’d have either been fired for insubordination or I’d be running the department. No in-between. I’m both passionate and opinionated which has either had me loved or hated. But enough about me.
2. I lamented the first year release on the 2005 Charger namesake. They had made an icon a horrible looking four door. Given the fact I hated about every last aspect of 2005 dodge design language that makes sense. I suppose my point is that eventually with this last hero run, the Charger became a car I’d genuinely want to own. A missing pedal is the only real hold back. Sooooo, maybe I should reserve some hope and judgement for the Hoodville Hellcat (hilarious btw) and give it time to mature. I lost enough industry friends ranting about how ugly a base c7 was (I stand by it) to see the beauty of the widebody variants. Maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised.
3. Do you think these will be harder to steal? 6000lbs should make some great sideshow carnage. Perhaps they’ve reinforced the rear quarters for when they smack a 350 female welfare recipient with them.
3.1 Can you imagine the pit maneuvers with these once OSHP replenishes the fleet with these monsters?
4. I guess I’ll pour one out and watch Dirty Mary Crazy Larry or something. At least this one has a full grill like a ‘67/68 - the best looking ones ever. Split grill chargers never really got me going although I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Duke Boys and correct enough, I’ll cheer everyday otherwise for the pig ass Mustang in Bullitt.
5. Speaking of old shit I’d rather have. I just spent the last few weekends fixing and restoring a vintage Zenith console / credenza style record player. Just like the older cars, the sound is probably worse quality on paper, but the authenticity and richness of enjoyment makes it all the more special. Things don’t need to be the newest, they just need to be worthwhile. Now I just need to hit up some garage sales or marketplace ads vs spending $35+ a pop as the hipsters do to replace the music I like.
.
I’m trying to bring to life an old Fisher 500c. Fingers crossed!
Depends on the vintage of the console. In any case, the turntable is probably dangerous to records, unless there's something like a Dual or Garrard, but if the electronics have tubes I'm sure they sounds fine.
In the basement of my son's apartment building, someone abandoned a ~1960 vintage RCA console that was probably the bottom of the line then. It had a nice little integrated tube amplifier with a single ended power section. Not a lot of power, but it sounds pretty good.
Have my Dad’s mid-60s Dual 1099!
The Dual sites don't mention a 1099, so maybe it's a 1009 or even better a 1019. Some folks are prejudiced against idler wheel turntables but with proper maintenance they're fine and with a decent cartridge it'd probably sound at least as good as a $300-$500 U-Turn or Pro-Ject table. Those 1000 series Duals are built like German stuff used to be built.
I’m trying to pin down a year for it, I’m thinking early to mid 70s by its styling. It’s a tube style unit. The chassis is a 20AT21 or 20AT21Z by the build sticker but they used that code over many years. It’s a 120volt 60 Hertz .57 Amperes so not too crazy but enough to sound good. The turntable itself is some “Genuine Diamond Stylus” labeled unit. I know very little about the brands from what I could dig up that was like their mainline player across their better models. I also found the number I49 413 on the back and a 06 9 02 under it. I’ve not been able to come up with anything.
Anyhow it was free. The cabinet was an anniversary gift to a friend’s grandmother. The husband long passed, she’s moving out and it was given to me by my own request. Was all frozen up. Nevertheless it’s got some sentimental value. Worst case scenario over time is I gut it and fit it with modern electronics but this is fine to just enjoy.
Based on the chassis # it's solid state, not tube.
I’m retarded... they are giant transistors I was looking at. Thought they were tubes. Another time it’d be helpful if Substack had image hosting but I know that would be a deep rabbit hole.