As your regular purveyor of cheap thrill, white trash hot rods and oft lamented fun machines; I’ve fortunately experience across the board here.
1. The convertible S197 + chassis car is easily the best variant of mustangs ever built, ESPECIALLY from an open air perspective. The suspension is legitimately good, the chassis doesn’t require subframe connectors or external support, and the 8.8 rears come stock with 31 spline axles and carbon clutches.
If purchasing a 4.6 3v car I HIGHLY recommend a 2009 if you want the early body style. The 09 is a standalone year for cylinder head changes that include cam follower upgrades and do NOT require a 2 piece spark plug. They also have the best drive by wire system. I cannot remember if they got the internal changes that the bullit received, but the 10 cars did. This includes beefier connecting rods and a special intake manifold. The upper end of the safe limit on a blown 3v is approximately 460rwhp. The Bullit and 10 cars can sustain 500.
Caveats being cam phasers on all. A perk is both 3v models use a 3550 transmission that although not as aggressively geared, is actually superior to the MT82.
The trunk opening is rather small given the available space. The rear seats don’t fold.
I had a coupe making 462rwhp with an intercooled v3 Si on a measly 8.5 psi. The 3v at the time made the most power per psi of any modular. I lived around the cars for years. They can easily be made into killer track weapons for any arena. Get a vented hood and or pull the weatherstrip if going very fast. Leave your grills unaltered. Stock clutches won’t take boost. PD > centrifugal if doing it again with the lower imposed redlines.
2. C6... Oh down the corvette rabbit hole I have fallen. I’ve owned a c5 coupe for over 10 years now, coming after selling said 3v and a brief stint with an 02 WS6 (wish I’d kept). At the time there were only c5 and c6 available and I greatly preferred the feel of the c5 and lamented the c6 interior and their Malibu / Cobalt feel. That said but what you like. Underneath they are literally near identical with around a 75% direct carryover in the early cars.
Skipping the c5 garble (buy an 01-03 only); the Ls3 - 2008 + c6 is absolutely the one to purchase. I wouldn’t be allowed to be swayed otherwise. You’ll also benefit from the tr6060. A z51 or GS will get you c5z styled gearing. This is great n/a and not so much with a power adder, so keep an end goal in mind.
All GS manual cars are dry sump and offer the much needed trans coolers that that c6z shares.
It is fairly easy to make @450 whp with a cam only ls3. Yes you can make more, 500 with ported heads but the super aggressive cams aren’t valve train friendly over time. The LS3 is still the best LS to build from in terms of boost or general longevity without getting into ls7 pitfalls.
The stock clutches and hydraulics are trash. Get a GOOD twin disc. That alone will keep fluids cleaner.
As noted you can make them into anything. With boost they will crush 600whp without haste. They still suffer from thinner ring lands and since mine just ate the #7 I’d take that slope with a grain of caution. A measly cammed and stock headed 03 LS1, I was making 642rwhp - it’s a lot. Probably too much for general street use despite what the internet says.
A very basic ls3 car with good cooling mods / suspension/ brakes would be near ultimate from a metrics standpoint.
Large and useful trunk and comically sized storage in the coupes. Can’t take your kid.
Steering and feedback is rather numb. Grip is there. Cars are super soft and grandpa friendly stock.
3. NC. I’ve only piloted a lightly modified NC PRHT with some Flyin’ goodies - I REALLY should have purchased that car in retrospect. It was noticeably roomier than my NB and bigger person friendly.
My NB had a FM II suspension beneath with a handful of bracing, bars, big rubber and decent brakes. It also wore an intercooled JRSC m45 with the ‘high boost’ pulley configuration. It was SO. MUCH. FUN. At @200whp it was a lower/mid 13 second car that was constant smiles. The feedback and the noises along with the ability to wring it out at will without dying or being instantly arrested with a 5 star GTA wanted level made it a wonderful street car.
The chassis was NOT great. This is where a blown NC would really shine. Phenomenal feedback, ability to make more power and far more robust driveline.
Cons - every Miata joke ever. Pride parades, limited storage, hot trunk (maybe not in an NC?) and no room for kids.
Super duper reliable fun if you can make it work for you and much lighter on the wallet. I am very heavily leaning towards a WHITE NC club with forced induction as a next toy; pending an ND doesn’t do it or I buy an s/c’d Elise. Sidenote: I drove my NB back to back with an Exige and actually preferred the Miata. Crazy talk I know.
No matter what there will always be some car I have never ever heard of, and this is one of them. Mitsubishi even made a two door, removable hardtop model. Absolute insanity.
95s are in reach if I stretch the budget a bit (or a lot, depending on what I can negotiate with insurance)! Vipers look very 90s in the best possible way. I miss the 90s.
They aren’t crazy to insure at all from my experience. Was more money to own an SRT4. Likewise corvettes are cheap to insure. 95-99 are great choices as they are all forged and have the 708 factory “hot cam”. They are the go-to for those wanting forced induction or a bunch of nitrous. The later cars were considered “cream puffs” as they mellowed the cam out some. ABS came in 01-02 (it’s hard to find many 02s as they are extra limited production; likewise the GTS are “final edition” cars with a hodgepodge of the best parts over the years) That said it’s farce for populace as it was more a change in LSA and the smoother cams keep more duration. They are actually the fastest of the factory Gen 2 vipers n/a. Also received were revised pistons and heads. Given a 588 cui displacement I believe viper builds should remain all motor much like a Shelby Cobra.
Very cool investment pieces either way. Maybe not like a Euro exotic just yet but far different from the slowly deflating balloon of a corvette. I basically stole mine peak Covid, purchasing 3 days after Christmas. Was a bit of a perfect storm. Still my favorite purchase despite any character flaws or draw backs.
I’ve built those too haha. Had an 88 formula for awhile and have been through every iteration possible building and changing a friends z28 while growing up.
3rd gens are cool for their weight and can be monsters accordingly since GM never really changed anything chassis wise until the Zeta cars. The heavy doors and pin issues are annoying along with the overall packaging. Hatch glass is stupid heavy. Unless you get a car with an Australian (92 350 cars) rear, the 10 bolts are all poop. Not a fan of trans options and the tunnel is a bit limiting.
Build whatever you like though. Those are very different vehicles altogether and tastes are subjective.
My answer to any toy car discussion now is Corvette or Miata. I'd probably love the Miata even more if I fit in the damn things, but I don't think Mazda believes that there is anyone 6'4 tall in the world. Though for the extra size, Corvettes don't really give you that much more room. Both cars give the added joy of being cheap and easy to fix and run. And, you can just hop in and drive them anywhere. Try that in your fancy eye-talian exotic.
I'd actually recommended at an Aston Martin Owners Club meet, that Aston should scrap all the cars they currently make, and by the rights to the C7 from GM. Even have GM do the assembly. Aston would get the best car they ever made, and they could add the fancy leather, paint, badges and trim in England, and continue to pretend they are an actual car builder. They'd even get hand built, hand signed engines back again. What could be better? Oddly, the AMOC crew didn't share my enthusiasm.
And btw, I don't include the C8 in my recommendation.
That is truly weird how Aston handled it. I understand the need for it, but it could have been marketed under a separate Aston brand, kinda like what Tickford was in the 80s, when they were doing fancy, mini Aston, Capris and Metros. But that total moron Ulrich Bez doubled down, and said it was as much of an Aston as Bonds DB5. Idiot.
You probably would. Me, I never liked the iQ, and the Cygnet just reminds me of those stupid-ass MSCHF Big Red Boots that took off last year. Overrated and unnecessary.
Personally, if I were going to spend far too much money a small “British” car with donor development from another country, it would be the MINI Inspired by Goodwood, which was essentially an R56 MINI with an interior designed by Rolls-Royce, including some of the materials Rolls-Royce uses. It’s rather less known about than the infamous Cygnet and much more to my liking.
And maybe Larry Strulovich’s PR offensive is paying off - he has quadrupled headcount in that department - and clearly all of my favorite influencers enjoyed their free trip to the Maybourne Riviera on the launch event … but I find the revised DB12 a fairly interesting car.
There is a likelihood that shoppers would be able to select between a DBS / Vanquish trim level of the DB12 featuring a V12 (albeit twin-turbo), a manual transmission, and real buttons on the center stack and dashboard and Ferrari’s “F167” (the 812 Superfast successor) that will be V12 (naturally aspirated but potentially hybridized) with paddles and touch screens only.
I think the AMOC didn't dig the idea because it would be a soulless Aston. At that point, just spend less money on a Corvette, which will put down better numbers.
The only point I can see in Aston ownership is sould/character of the car. There's absolutely no objective way in which their cars outperform their competition.
But they haven't built a car with soul in almost a quarter century. It's so bad, they had to use the word soul in their marketing. Turn the damn car on, and it says it has soul. If you are trying so hard, you ain't got it. No car they built since 2000 has been as good as the comparable Corvette. (All the cars before then were even worse as cars, but did have character and soul. ) They have just been a second rate exotic since Bez took over, leaning heavily on their Bond mystique, because they have nothing else.
I guess if you never drive it. But they also basically had one design for the best part of 25 years. Designed by Keith Helflett at Jaguar no less, and tweaked by Ian Callum. They basically just broke out thr tracing paper, and tweaked to fit every new chassis. Until Reichman came along and screwed the whole thing up. Now even the beauty of design is gone.
I'll admit the latest iterations have lost something. But I had no problem with the prior design sticking around for so long. Hate new for the sake of new, which results in giant-mawed BMWs, insectoid Toyota crossovers, etc. By contrast, I admire Chrysler and Volvo for their ten-year design cycles and overall restraint.
I disagree that Aston Martins haven’t had soul. The parts-bin 80s and 90s models did, and the gorgeous 2000s-era Ford ones did, too. They were never as good as a contemporary Corvette or Porsche anything, but they had character in spades (Volvo electrical architecture notwithstanding). But they were beautifully flawed, like most British cars.
I’d love to get my hand on a manual-transmission Vantage or DB9, but they’ll likely be priced out of my reach by the time I want to pull that trigger.
I was in a similar situation... young dad, east coast, spare car... (Although my budget was not quite as robust.)
My advice, get the most fun car that can pitch-hit family duty. As your kiddo (or perhaps kiddos) get older - you can expose them to the joys of autos - because you can fit them in a car with a usable back seat. You'll also get more seat time in your toy as it'll be more functional.
I went with an E550 coupe. Wanted a 'stang - but found the E-class coupes were a bit underappreciated and oddly were cheaper. They also have a bigger much more usable back seat, compared to a Mustang. You won't fit a rear facing car seat (in either). But forward facing and booster is fine. Mine's an older one with the NA V8 - but the newer ones (2012+) got twin turbo V8s. They can easily put down 450+ hp with mild modifications.
You can get a good example in the 15k to 20k range - and a great one for just under your 30k budget.
Those pillarless windows are so cool. If I can afford a good cruiser in the next year to pair with my dumbass Bronco, these are on the list. Even the six cylinder wouldn't be a bad choice.
I think it was you that wrote an article a while back about that gen E350 being the last "real" Benz or whatever. I don't know if I'd attach that much romance to it, BUT they have grown on me a lot. Just seem like a lovely place to spend a lot of time.
I can't really argue the Mercedes, I'm down to two and they're endless if (IMO) worthwhile money pits as ALL German cars need constant touching even when they're perfect .
Yes, there is such a thing as a perfect Mercedes but then you'll want to drive it and if you drive it you'll want to do so at 9/10th's even in town so there goes the "perfect" and i don't even smoke .
Back when my employer had the vax gun aimed at my head, aside from searching for potential new employers I also had to figure a way to economically replace two company lease cars. Used E-class wagons were at the top of the list to replace our Durango, and while I'm happy the pressure was released and I didn't have to go through all that, I do occasionally lament the fact that there ISN'T a navy blue 4-Matic with tastefully applied chrome trim in my driveway right now.
If you recall, you helped talk me into it! (A few years ago I asked about an XKR, an E-Coupe, a Tour X, and maybe something else, I was all over the place.)
It's been dependable and reasonable to maintain. The coupe is a bit of bastard child between an E-Class Sedan and a C-Class coupe. Lots of parts shared between the two. Speaking of which, that's probably my only compliant - figuring out part numbers. What the hell from a W204 / W212 fits the W207. Haven't had any issue getting parts or having service done (find a good indy or DiY) - it's actually a pretty simple car in general, not just by MB standards. In my (few) years or ownership and internet research, there doesn't seem to be an Achille's heel with them - aside from the rear-sub frame brace rusting pre-maturely, which MB (as of last year) now warranties for 20 years / unlimited miles. NA V8 M273 issues were sorted by the E-Class. Early M278s (2012 / TT V8s) did had some issues though.
Speaking of which, I thought my sub-frame did have an issue (my car looks super clean underneath, it's never seen road salt) as it's handling has been a little floaty as of late. They rust from the inside out, so unless they are really bad, it's hard to visually inspect. Took it to the MB dealership - was told the subframe brace was fine, but my front shocks were leaking. Which I suppose is fair, after 90,000 miles and frequent trips to the garbage roads NYC has to offer. Quote: $3800
Thought the dealership was trying to screw me, but after determining the correct part numbers (my car has the Vehicle Dynamic Ride control ....effin' magnets... how do they work??) - I found it was $1500 each. THAT was a bit of a shock to me - UNTIL about 15 min of Googling later I find the parts are made by Monroe (which is also stamped on my current front shocks) - they are $250 each when ordering the Monroe part number.
“My advice, get the most fun car that can pitch-hit family duty. As your kiddo (or perhaps kiddos) get older - you can expose them to the joys of autos - because you can fit them in a car with a usable back seat. You'll also get more seat time in your toy as it'll be more functional.”
Let me offer a potential counterpoint: depending on how often you need to haul the kid(s), and your risk tolerance (as well as that of their mother), a 2-seater is a fantastic bonding experience for the kid once they're old enough to ride in the front seat. My kids love riding in the S2000 and I guarantee it has nothing to do with HP/L, the best manual trans ever, or a limited slip. It’s because they get to sit in the front seat and have 1:1 time with dad.
My personal rule was they can go in the car once they graduate to a booster from a 5-pt seat in height and weight (my kids are large for the their age so the age rule is kinda silly). IL law I believe says back seat until 12, but my 11y/o has been over 5’ for a couple years and the lady down the street (former Big 10 cheerleader) is several inches shorter, ~the same weight (105-110) and can actually drive her own car so I think my kid can sit in the front just fine. For the 6y/o I just keep it to surface streets and off the highway. We have a Bubble Bum little inflatable booster which meets the spirit of the law if not the letter and doesn’t jack up my seat bolsters. Anyway, just a counterpoint; in a few more years you could be driving a roadster with your son by your side having a blast. And if you add another kid, time spent with just one or the other is fantastic, especially taking the older one out away from his younger sibling. My kids are 5 years apart so when my youngest was a newborn my oldest loved taking a ride in “red car” to a playground or ice cream to get away from the baby for an hour; dad loved it too because who doesn’t want to escape a baby?
Also, I too live somewhere with no “sports car roads” and if I had any brains I would have traded the S2000 for a C6 or C7 a long time ago. Unfortunately, I don’t, and the heart wants what the heart wants, but driving a low-powered sports car where the roads are all straight flat and boring isn’t a ton of fun. I’d go Corvette over Miata, but I might try to see if the budget stretches to a C7 just for aesthetic and age (of the car) reasons.
My only fly in the ointment was that my darling baby boy paid such close attention that he turned into a _far_ better & faster driver than I ever was so instead of side by side he waits up ahead when he knows I'll enjoy the coffee or grub .
"Let me offer a potential counterpoint: depending on how often you need to haul the kid(s), and your risk tolerance (as well as that of their mother), a 2-seater is a fantastic bonding experience for the kid once they're old enough to ride in the front seat."
What a lovely, and completely true, comment. Thank you.
Damn. Time to buy another old stick shift Ranger to go for drives with my boy. I keep scheming on when he'll be old enough to ride on the back of a motorcycle but that's a ways away yet until I'd really feel ok about it. In the mean time we've been zipping around on this weird Velosolex 4600 FWD moped contraption that I scored off FB marketplace last week.
Good points about the bonding. Is the back seat until 12 a legal requirement it a recommendation? MA recommends 13, but by i don't think they can ticket you for it.
The Internet tells me NC miatas have latch anchors and you can manually disable the airbag.
The NB had the manual airbag disable with a key. No latches, but it will fit a rear facing seat with the belt if you're a bad father. Or so I hear. The NC has the latches and might have had an automatic weight sensor. One issue is that the door sills are so high they can't see out anyway, facing rear or forward, at least for a while.
My kids’ schools are like 5 25mph suburban blocks from our house, so whenever I have staggered pickup or drop off on nice days I take the convertible and they love it.
I forgot about e class coupes. That's an interesting idea. what do you think of the factory exhaust?
I've liked the w212 and considered one back when i wanted a sedan to chew highway miles. I went with a bmw 550 because I still enjoyed a manual transmission. I still don't think I'm ready for an automatic only driveway. I was impressed by the benz though.
isn't the coupe a c class with an e class powertrain? Anyway, they look great. The pillarless windows are really cool.
It's a great point that I'll get more chances to drive it if I pick something suitable for the family. That was actually part of my logic with the m3. I might be confusing the infant seat with the rear-facing convertible seat, but an adult male could sit in front of one for a short distance. The back seat of an e92 is huge for a coupe. Getting the kiddo in the seat was another story.
I can only speak for the NA version that I have, but the factory exhaust is nice. In comfort mode, the car starts in 2nd gear, and there's enough torque on tap that normal everyday driving rarely gets above 2.5k RPMs - under those scenarios you never hear the exhaust... which I personally like.
Get on it and play around a little bit (sport mode / 1st gear starts) - run the RPMs beyond 3k and you'll hear some anti-social noises. Some guys don't find it loud enough and they remove the secondary resonators; others go full aftermarket, usually Brabus.
Depends on what you're looking for. The E-coupe is more of a grand tourer. It can be sporty, but its base personality is comfortable, quiet muscle.
Early M278s had some turbo issues from what I read. But if they come up, it seems like they come up early, likely a used good example would have any issues address.
The 2010 and 2011 had the NA 5.5L M273 engine. The 2012 was kinda neat as it had the new 4.7L Twin Turbo M278 engine, but the older facelift design (separated headlights, that look like 4 distinct) vs the facelift combined headlights. 2013+ was new engine and facelift.
This Brad Brownell business got me thinking of Bob Kane, the alleged creator of Batman.
Kane was a piece of shit in nearly every way one could imagine, without actually being Genghis Khan or John Wayne Gacy, but his stock in trade was the one that offends the craftsman in me TO THE CORE.
He wanted to become rich and famous without actually making an honest contribution to society.
He had other people do the work while he made off with the credit and the money.
After the mass-murdering conquerors and the sadistic psychopaths, the grifters are the lowest bottom-feeding scum of mankind.
The rumor is that "RADWOOD" was stolen in its entirety from an 80's-themed car show held by a church in Canton, Ohio. Fat Brad rarely did more than sell merch and run his mouth.
In most companies, you are generally promoted by mastering the job. So in theory, any CEO can perform any company task. Pro tip...don’t point this out to your current boss or HR.
In a genuine meritocracy, that’s true. In reality, the world is littered with horror stories of people who led companies and had no actual idea how anything was done, and they were often hired from outside rather than promoted from within.
Ryan Passey (I think) dropped one into his NA time attack car and won his class at Willow Springs some time ago. Stock engine with an E85 tune and some "headers" which were just straight pipes coming out of the integrated manifold.
Personally not the biggest fan of the bigger, lower revving engines in my personal Miata.
Recently became aware of these 3.0L V6 engine swaps created by a british firm for the NB (with plans for the NC and ND in future): https://www.rocketeercars.com/
Go for the Corvette. I have the e92 M3 now, and had the NC Miata as well. I sold the NC after I bought the M3. Before the NC I had a tastefully modified C6. I really miss my C6.
Having had the M3 you will miss the power in the NC.
Look for a 2008 or newer C6. The body control electronics are better in the later cars. Z51 at a minimum, or Grand Sport if you can swing an extra few grand. It would be worth it.
My wife says I suffer from scope creep when car hunting and she is correct. I'd take the high mileage Grand Sport over the low milage base C6 every day.
With all the changes life has brought for me over the past few years, including covid fun, job changes, location changes, etc., the one thing I've decided I will never, ever, do again is be forced to pay fancy repair bills on fancy cars at fancy mechanics. Screw that. If you can get past caring what other people think, you fun car life becomes much more carefree, inexpensive and enjoyable. And, yes, fun. I'd rather get something I can wrench on myself, or worst case scenario, be able to take to any corner garage anywhere. I'm honestly at a point in my life where I just don't give a flying fuck what my automotive choices say or mean to anyone, other then myself.
As your regular purveyor of cheap thrill, white trash hot rods and oft lamented fun machines; I’ve fortunately experience across the board here.
1. The convertible S197 + chassis car is easily the best variant of mustangs ever built, ESPECIALLY from an open air perspective. The suspension is legitimately good, the chassis doesn’t require subframe connectors or external support, and the 8.8 rears come stock with 31 spline axles and carbon clutches.
If purchasing a 4.6 3v car I HIGHLY recommend a 2009 if you want the early body style. The 09 is a standalone year for cylinder head changes that include cam follower upgrades and do NOT require a 2 piece spark plug. They also have the best drive by wire system. I cannot remember if they got the internal changes that the bullit received, but the 10 cars did. This includes beefier connecting rods and a special intake manifold. The upper end of the safe limit on a blown 3v is approximately 460rwhp. The Bullit and 10 cars can sustain 500.
Caveats being cam phasers on all. A perk is both 3v models use a 3550 transmission that although not as aggressively geared, is actually superior to the MT82.
The trunk opening is rather small given the available space. The rear seats don’t fold.
I had a coupe making 462rwhp with an intercooled v3 Si on a measly 8.5 psi. The 3v at the time made the most power per psi of any modular. I lived around the cars for years. They can easily be made into killer track weapons for any arena. Get a vented hood and or pull the weatherstrip if going very fast. Leave your grills unaltered. Stock clutches won’t take boost. PD > centrifugal if doing it again with the lower imposed redlines.
2. C6... Oh down the corvette rabbit hole I have fallen. I’ve owned a c5 coupe for over 10 years now, coming after selling said 3v and a brief stint with an 02 WS6 (wish I’d kept). At the time there were only c5 and c6 available and I greatly preferred the feel of the c5 and lamented the c6 interior and their Malibu / Cobalt feel. That said but what you like. Underneath they are literally near identical with around a 75% direct carryover in the early cars.
Skipping the c5 garble (buy an 01-03 only); the Ls3 - 2008 + c6 is absolutely the one to purchase. I wouldn’t be allowed to be swayed otherwise. You’ll also benefit from the tr6060. A z51 or GS will get you c5z styled gearing. This is great n/a and not so much with a power adder, so keep an end goal in mind.
All GS manual cars are dry sump and offer the much needed trans coolers that that c6z shares.
It is fairly easy to make @450 whp with a cam only ls3. Yes you can make more, 500 with ported heads but the super aggressive cams aren’t valve train friendly over time. The LS3 is still the best LS to build from in terms of boost or general longevity without getting into ls7 pitfalls.
The stock clutches and hydraulics are trash. Get a GOOD twin disc. That alone will keep fluids cleaner.
As noted you can make them into anything. With boost they will crush 600whp without haste. They still suffer from thinner ring lands and since mine just ate the #7 I’d take that slope with a grain of caution. A measly cammed and stock headed 03 LS1, I was making 642rwhp - it’s a lot. Probably too much for general street use despite what the internet says.
A very basic ls3 car with good cooling mods / suspension/ brakes would be near ultimate from a metrics standpoint.
Large and useful trunk and comically sized storage in the coupes. Can’t take your kid.
Steering and feedback is rather numb. Grip is there. Cars are super soft and grandpa friendly stock.
3. NC. I’ve only piloted a lightly modified NC PRHT with some Flyin’ goodies - I REALLY should have purchased that car in retrospect. It was noticeably roomier than my NB and bigger person friendly.
My NB had a FM II suspension beneath with a handful of bracing, bars, big rubber and decent brakes. It also wore an intercooled JRSC m45 with the ‘high boost’ pulley configuration. It was SO. MUCH. FUN. At @200whp it was a lower/mid 13 second car that was constant smiles. The feedback and the noises along with the ability to wring it out at will without dying or being instantly arrested with a 5 star GTA wanted level made it a wonderful street car.
The chassis was NOT great. This is where a blown NC would really shine. Phenomenal feedback, ability to make more power and far more robust driveline.
Cons - every Miata joke ever. Pride parades, limited storage, hot trunk (maybe not in an NC?) and no room for kids.
Super duper reliable fun if you can make it work for you and much lighter on the wallet. I am very heavily leaning towards a WHITE NC club with forced induction as a next toy; pending an ND doesn’t do it or I buy an s/c’d Elise. Sidenote: I drove my NB back to back with an Exige and actually preferred the Miata. Crazy talk I know.
4. Buy a Viper. Reasons: Yes.
Pinned, thank you!
I want to be you when I grow up.
I assure you there are better role models on here. I’ve plenty to look up to myself.
Always buy the Viper
I remember the first time i saw a viper when my dad was buying our minivan “dad. Lets get that” probably 30 years ago
I had a similar showroom experience with the Mitsubishi 3000GT. We came to look at the Galant and impulse bought an Expo LRV.
At least your family ended up with a real van out of the experience.
No matter what there will always be some car I have never ever heard of, and this is one of them. Mitsubishi even made a two door, removable hardtop model. Absolute insanity.
95s are in reach if I stretch the budget a bit (or a lot, depending on what I can negotiate with insurance)! Vipers look very 90s in the best possible way. I miss the 90s.
They aren’t crazy to insure at all from my experience. Was more money to own an SRT4. Likewise corvettes are cheap to insure. 95-99 are great choices as they are all forged and have the 708 factory “hot cam”. They are the go-to for those wanting forced induction or a bunch of nitrous. The later cars were considered “cream puffs” as they mellowed the cam out some. ABS came in 01-02 (it’s hard to find many 02s as they are extra limited production; likewise the GTS are “final edition” cars with a hodgepodge of the best parts over the years) That said it’s farce for populace as it was more a change in LSA and the smoother cams keep more duration. They are actually the fastest of the factory Gen 2 vipers n/a. Also received were revised pistons and heads. Given a 588 cui displacement I believe viper builds should remain all motor much like a Shelby Cobra.
Very cool investment pieces either way. Maybe not like a Euro exotic just yet but far different from the slowly deflating balloon of a corvette. I basically stole mine peak Covid, purchasing 3 days after Christmas. Was a bit of a perfect storm. Still my favorite purchase despite any character flaws or draw backs.
you had me at "white trash hot rods and oft lamented fun machines"
It’s all I know.
what more is there to know?
Women and finance are probably worth investigating haha
great info, thanks!
Goddamn. This might make me plunge into a S197 instead of a third gen f body like my body wants to do.
I’ve built those too haha. Had an 88 formula for awhile and have been through every iteration possible building and changing a friends z28 while growing up.
3rd gens are cool for their weight and can be monsters accordingly since GM never really changed anything chassis wise until the Zeta cars. The heavy doors and pin issues are annoying along with the overall packaging. Hatch glass is stupid heavy. Unless you get a car with an Australian (92 350 cars) rear, the 10 bolts are all poop. Not a fan of trans options and the tunnel is a bit limiting.
Build whatever you like though. Those are very different vehicles altogether and tastes are subjective.
Fire away with any specific questions to either.
As a 4.6L ragtop S197 owner (2006), I was gonna chime in, but Thomas articulated this better than I ever could.
My answer to any toy car discussion now is Corvette or Miata. I'd probably love the Miata even more if I fit in the damn things, but I don't think Mazda believes that there is anyone 6'4 tall in the world. Though for the extra size, Corvettes don't really give you that much more room. Both cars give the added joy of being cheap and easy to fix and run. And, you can just hop in and drive them anywhere. Try that in your fancy eye-talian exotic.
I'd actually recommended at an Aston Martin Owners Club meet, that Aston should scrap all the cars they currently make, and by the rights to the C7 from GM. Even have GM do the assembly. Aston would get the best car they ever made, and they could add the fancy leather, paint, badges and trim in England, and continue to pretend they are an actual car builder. They'd even get hand built, hand signed engines back again. What could be better? Oddly, the AMOC crew didn't share my enthusiasm.
And btw, I don't include the C8 in my recommendation.
This reminds me of the finest Aston Martin of modern times, the Cygnet
That is truly weird how Aston handled it. I understand the need for it, but it could have been marketed under a separate Aston brand, kinda like what Tickford was in the 80s, when they were doing fancy, mini Aston, Capris and Metros. But that total moron Ulrich Bez doubled down, and said it was as much of an Aston as Bonds DB5. Idiot.
Well, let's see what the market has to say:
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/aston-martin/cygnet/2011/937627
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/aston-martin/db9/2010/966200
CYGS UP
HOES DOWN
The market is stupid
it is. it's why everyone drives crossovers and no one drives cool wagons
I mean, it’s a novelty.
That doesn’t mean it’s good.
I really like the Toyota iQ so I suspect I'd enjoy the Cygnet
You probably would. Me, I never liked the iQ, and the Cygnet just reminds me of those stupid-ass MSCHF Big Red Boots that took off last year. Overrated and unnecessary.
Personally, if I were going to spend far too much money a small “British” car with donor development from another country, it would be the MINI Inspired by Goodwood, which was essentially an R56 MINI with an interior designed by Rolls-Royce, including some of the materials Rolls-Royce uses. It’s rather less known about than the infamous Cygnet and much more to my liking.
I saw a Cygnet at Le Mans in 2018!
And maybe Larry Strulovich’s PR offensive is paying off - he has quadrupled headcount in that department - and clearly all of my favorite influencers enjoyed their free trip to the Maybourne Riviera on the launch event … but I find the revised DB12 a fairly interesting car.
There is a likelihood that shoppers would be able to select between a DBS / Vanquish trim level of the DB12 featuring a V12 (albeit twin-turbo), a manual transmission, and real buttons on the center stack and dashboard and Ferrari’s “F167” (the 812 Superfast successor) that will be V12 (naturally aspirated but potentially hybridized) with paddles and touch screens only.
Isn't that the car Clarkson referred to as a dishwasher?
I think the AMOC didn't dig the idea because it would be a soulless Aston. At that point, just spend less money on a Corvette, which will put down better numbers.
The only point I can see in Aston ownership is sould/character of the car. There's absolutely no objective way in which their cars outperform their competition.
But they haven't built a car with soul in almost a quarter century. It's so bad, they had to use the word soul in their marketing. Turn the damn car on, and it says it has soul. If you are trying so hard, you ain't got it. No car they built since 2000 has been as good as the comparable Corvette. (All the cars before then were even worse as cars, but did have character and soul. ) They have just been a second rate exotic since Bez took over, leaning heavily on their Bond mystique, because they have nothing else.
Well, they have the styling, which is almost enough to make up for the rest of it.
I guess if you never drive it. But they also basically had one design for the best part of 25 years. Designed by Keith Helflett at Jaguar no less, and tweaked by Ian Callum. They basically just broke out thr tracing paper, and tweaked to fit every new chassis. Until Reichman came along and screwed the whole thing up. Now even the beauty of design is gone.
I'll admit the latest iterations have lost something. But I had no problem with the prior design sticking around for so long. Hate new for the sake of new, which results in giant-mawed BMWs, insectoid Toyota crossovers, etc. By contrast, I admire Chrysler and Volvo for their ten-year design cycles and overall restraint.
The era of the big sniff has been a disaster for BMW
I think I'd still take a DB9 over a C5, but I don't disagree with most of this.
Aston is very much a second rate exotic, and the prices reflect it.
I disagree that Aston Martins haven’t had soul. The parts-bin 80s and 90s models did, and the gorgeous 2000s-era Ford ones did, too. They were never as good as a contemporary Corvette or Porsche anything, but they had character in spades (Volvo electrical architecture notwithstanding). But they were beautifully flawed, like most British cars.
I’d love to get my hand on a manual-transmission Vantage or DB9, but they’ll likely be priced out of my reach by the time I want to pull that trigger.
I was in a similar situation... young dad, east coast, spare car... (Although my budget was not quite as robust.)
My advice, get the most fun car that can pitch-hit family duty. As your kiddo (or perhaps kiddos) get older - you can expose them to the joys of autos - because you can fit them in a car with a usable back seat. You'll also get more seat time in your toy as it'll be more functional.
I went with an E550 coupe. Wanted a 'stang - but found the E-class coupes were a bit underappreciated and oddly were cheaper. They also have a bigger much more usable back seat, compared to a Mustang. You won't fit a rear facing car seat (in either). But forward facing and booster is fine. Mine's an older one with the NA V8 - but the newer ones (2012+) got twin turbo V8s. They can easily put down 450+ hp with mild modifications.
You can get a good example in the 15k to 20k range - and a great one for just under your 30k budget.
GL!
Huh. I never considered an E Class coupe, that's actually a great suggestion!
I'd sure love to have one.
Those pillarless windows are so cool. If I can afford a good cruiser in the next year to pair with my dumbass Bronco, these are on the list. Even the six cylinder wouldn't be a bad choice.
Arguably a GOOD choice since that's known to be a dependable and low-cost engine by Benz standards anyway.
I think it was you that wrote an article a while back about that gen E350 being the last "real" Benz or whatever. I don't know if I'd attach that much romance to it, BUT they have grown on me a lot. Just seem like a lovely place to spend a lot of time.
I'm still trying to buy my father's E350. Doubt I will succeed.
NO LOWBALLERS! I know what I have!
I can't really argue the Mercedes, I'm down to two and they're endless if (IMO) worthwhile money pits as ALL German cars need constant touching even when they're perfect .
Yes, there is such a thing as a perfect Mercedes but then you'll want to drive it and if you drive it you'll want to do so at 9/10th's even in town so there goes the "perfect" and i don't even smoke .
-Nate
Just got me looking at W212 wagons for my wife...
If there is anything that will get my wife out of an SUV, a benz wagon is probably it.
Worth a shot!
Back when my employer had the vax gun aimed at my head, aside from searching for potential new employers I also had to figure a way to economically replace two company lease cars. Used E-class wagons were at the top of the list to replace our Durango, and while I'm happy the pressure was released and I didn't have to go through all that, I do occasionally lament the fact that there ISN'T a navy blue 4-Matic with tastefully applied chrome trim in my driveway right now.
If you recall, you helped talk me into it! (A few years ago I asked about an XKR, an E-Coupe, a Tour X, and maybe something else, I was all over the place.)
YES! I remember
It's been dependable and reasonable to maintain. The coupe is a bit of bastard child between an E-Class Sedan and a C-Class coupe. Lots of parts shared between the two. Speaking of which, that's probably my only compliant - figuring out part numbers. What the hell from a W204 / W212 fits the W207. Haven't had any issue getting parts or having service done (find a good indy or DiY) - it's actually a pretty simple car in general, not just by MB standards. In my (few) years or ownership and internet research, there doesn't seem to be an Achille's heel with them - aside from the rear-sub frame brace rusting pre-maturely, which MB (as of last year) now warranties for 20 years / unlimited miles. NA V8 M273 issues were sorted by the E-Class. Early M278s (2012 / TT V8s) did had some issues though.
Speaking of which, I thought my sub-frame did have an issue (my car looks super clean underneath, it's never seen road salt) as it's handling has been a little floaty as of late. They rust from the inside out, so unless they are really bad, it's hard to visually inspect. Took it to the MB dealership - was told the subframe brace was fine, but my front shocks were leaking. Which I suppose is fair, after 90,000 miles and frequent trips to the garbage roads NYC has to offer. Quote: $3800
Thought the dealership was trying to screw me, but after determining the correct part numbers (my car has the Vehicle Dynamic Ride control ....effin' magnets... how do they work??) - I found it was $1500 each. THAT was a bit of a shock to me - UNTIL about 15 min of Googling later I find the parts are made by Monroe (which is also stamped on my current front shocks) - they are $250 each when ordering the Monroe part number.
Long story long, just watch out for the markup.
What do you have to watch out for with the M278s?
“My advice, get the most fun car that can pitch-hit family duty. As your kiddo (or perhaps kiddos) get older - you can expose them to the joys of autos - because you can fit them in a car with a usable back seat. You'll also get more seat time in your toy as it'll be more functional.”
Let me offer a potential counterpoint: depending on how often you need to haul the kid(s), and your risk tolerance (as well as that of their mother), a 2-seater is a fantastic bonding experience for the kid once they're old enough to ride in the front seat. My kids love riding in the S2000 and I guarantee it has nothing to do with HP/L, the best manual trans ever, or a limited slip. It’s because they get to sit in the front seat and have 1:1 time with dad.
My personal rule was they can go in the car once they graduate to a booster from a 5-pt seat in height and weight (my kids are large for the their age so the age rule is kinda silly). IL law I believe says back seat until 12, but my 11y/o has been over 5’ for a couple years and the lady down the street (former Big 10 cheerleader) is several inches shorter, ~the same weight (105-110) and can actually drive her own car so I think my kid can sit in the front just fine. For the 6y/o I just keep it to surface streets and off the highway. We have a Bubble Bum little inflatable booster which meets the spirit of the law if not the letter and doesn’t jack up my seat bolsters. Anyway, just a counterpoint; in a few more years you could be driving a roadster with your son by your side having a blast. And if you add another kid, time spent with just one or the other is fantastic, especially taking the older one out away from his younger sibling. My kids are 5 years apart so when my youngest was a newborn my oldest loved taking a ride in “red car” to a playground or ice cream to get away from the baby for an hour; dad loved it too because who doesn’t want to escape a baby?
Also, I too live somewhere with no “sports car roads” and if I had any brains I would have traded the S2000 for a C6 or C7 a long time ago. Unfortunately, I don’t, and the heart wants what the heart wants, but driving a low-powered sports car where the roads are all straight flat and boring isn’t a ton of fun. I’d go Corvette over Miata, but I might try to see if the budget stretches to a C7 just for aesthetic and age (of the car) reasons.
A good plan Chris ;
My only fly in the ointment was that my darling baby boy paid such close attention that he turned into a _far_ better & faster driver than I ever was so instead of side by side he waits up ahead when he knows I'll enjoy the coffee or grub .
In the big picture this is a win-win but damn .
-Nate
"Let me offer a potential counterpoint: depending on how often you need to haul the kid(s), and your risk tolerance (as well as that of their mother), a 2-seater is a fantastic bonding experience for the kid once they're old enough to ride in the front seat."
What a lovely, and completely true, comment. Thank you.
100%. I love going places with mine. The 84 911 is great and 91 Cummins is better.
Damn. Time to buy another old stick shift Ranger to go for drives with my boy. I keep scheming on when he'll be old enough to ride on the back of a motorcycle but that's a ways away yet until I'd really feel ok about it. In the mean time we've been zipping around on this weird Velosolex 4600 FWD moped contraption that I scored off FB marketplace last week.
I would love a c7. I think it looks much better than the c5 or c6. I would have to find one with high miles for it to fit in the budget.
Good points about the bonding. Is the back seat until 12 a legal requirement it a recommendation? MA recommends 13, but by i don't think they can ticket you for it.
The Internet tells me NC miatas have latch anchors and you can manually disable the airbag.
The NB had the manual airbag disable with a key. No latches, but it will fit a rear facing seat with the belt if you're a bad father. Or so I hear. The NC has the latches and might have had an automatic weight sensor. One issue is that the door sills are so high they can't see out anyway, facing rear or forward, at least for a while.
They can't ticket you in a two seat car. That's the loophole.
So far, no Miata rides for my 3yr old daughter! Every year I pitch the idea to my wife. I'll keep trying.
My kids’ schools are like 5 25mph suburban blocks from our house, so whenever I have staggered pickup or drop off on nice days I take the convertible and they love it.
Based and unlikely enthusiast choice, although I'm not a Mercedes fan
I forgot about e class coupes. That's an interesting idea. what do you think of the factory exhaust?
I've liked the w212 and considered one back when i wanted a sedan to chew highway miles. I went with a bmw 550 because I still enjoyed a manual transmission. I still don't think I'm ready for an automatic only driveway. I was impressed by the benz though.
isn't the coupe a c class with an e class powertrain? Anyway, they look great. The pillarless windows are really cool.
It's a great point that I'll get more chances to drive it if I pick something suitable for the family. That was actually part of my logic with the m3. I might be confusing the infant seat with the rear-facing convertible seat, but an adult male could sit in front of one for a short distance. The back seat of an e92 is huge for a coupe. Getting the kiddo in the seat was another story.
@Bugersandbeer - Sorry for the late reply.
I can only speak for the NA version that I have, but the factory exhaust is nice. In comfort mode, the car starts in 2nd gear, and there's enough torque on tap that normal everyday driving rarely gets above 2.5k RPMs - under those scenarios you never hear the exhaust... which I personally like.
Get on it and play around a little bit (sport mode / 1st gear starts) - run the RPMs beyond 3k and you'll hear some anti-social noises. Some guys don't find it loud enough and they remove the secondary resonators; others go full aftermarket, usually Brabus.
Depends on what you're looking for. The E-coupe is more of a grand tourer. It can be sporty, but its base personality is comfortable, quiet muscle.
Early M278s had some turbo issues from what I read. But if they come up, it seems like they come up early, likely a used good example would have any issues address.
The 2010 and 2011 had the NA 5.5L M273 engine. The 2012 was kinda neat as it had the new 4.7L Twin Turbo M278 engine, but the older facelift design (separated headlights, that look like 4 distinct) vs the facelift combined headlights. 2013+ was new engine and facelift.
This Brad Brownell business got me thinking of Bob Kane, the alleged creator of Batman.
Kane was a piece of shit in nearly every way one could imagine, without actually being Genghis Khan or John Wayne Gacy, but his stock in trade was the one that offends the craftsman in me TO THE CORE.
He wanted to become rich and famous without actually making an honest contribution to society.
He had other people do the work while he made off with the credit and the money.
After the mass-murdering conquerors and the sadistic psychopaths, the grifters are the lowest bottom-feeding scum of mankind.
Gil Kane > Bob Kane.
The rumor is that "RADWOOD" was stolen in its entirety from an 80's-themed car show held by a church in Canton, Ohio. Fat Brad rarely did more than sell merch and run his mouth.
I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you!
Yep, that's the story I heard.
Likewise. Brad apparently doesn’t value friends if they aren’t of the left coast car Twitter variety.
Kane screwed Bob Finger for sure but there's nothing wrong with work-for-hire talent. Harley Earl couldn't draw but the men and women he hired could.
Do I really need to learn PCB design if I have an idea for guitar pedal?
In most companies, you are generally promoted by mastering the job. So in theory, any CEO can perform any company task. Pro tip...don’t point this out to your current boss or HR.
In a genuine meritocracy, that’s true. In reality, the world is littered with horror stories of people who led companies and had no actual idea how anything was done, and they were often hired from outside rather than promoted from within.
The “Peter Principle!” One rises to the level of their own incompetence!
Nothing wrong with hiring people who are better than you at something you need to be done.
As long as you give them credit and a cut.
NC Miata, but with an LS swap. Expensive and impractical, but you can now achieve flight without wings.
That's the only way I will have an NC again. The chassis is great. The engine is not.
Really makes me wonder what the "correct" amount of power is. It's somewhere between stock and LS, but I'm not sure where. 180whp? 200whp?
The LFX swap (about 325hp) is probably about right, but if I were spending the money I'd have to spring for the LS. Damn scope creep...
Ryan Passey (I think) dropped one into his NA time attack car and won his class at Willow Springs some time ago. Stock engine with an E85 tune and some "headers" which were just straight pipes coming out of the integrated manifold.
Personally not the biggest fan of the bigger, lower revving engines in my personal Miata.
Recently became aware of these 3.0L V6 engine swaps created by a british firm for the NB (with plans for the NC and ND in future): https://www.rocketeercars.com/
An example mazdaspeed NB sold on BAT recently: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-mazda-mazdaspeed-mx-5-miata-16/
I want one (possibly even in NB chassis) but want one in an NC even more
Also - aren't there other engine swaps?
Have seen turbocharged and supercharged 2.5L NCs on BringATrailer and should have bid
Stricly speaking, you can put most anything in there. The K series is possibly the most popular non-Mazda swap, and it makes a lot of sense.
To Adam: Get the Corvette.
Go for the Corvette. I have the e92 M3 now, and had the NC Miata as well. I sold the NC after I bought the M3. Before the NC I had a tastefully modified C6. I really miss my C6.
Having had the M3 you will miss the power in the NC.
Look for a 2008 or newer C6. The body control electronics are better in the later cars. Z51 at a minimum, or Grand Sport if you can swing an extra few grand. It would be worth it.
At that point might as well go for a 427! :)
My wife says I suffer from scope creep when car hunting and she is correct. I'd take the high mileage Grand Sport over the low milage base C6 every day.
"Scope creep" - love it. Although as a PMP I should hate it.
I'm the same way, though - always thinking for a little more, we can get something better, and so on and on...
Me too. Somehow, my search for a 1996-1998 Lincoln Mark VIII turned into a search for a 2012-2014 Bentley Continental GT.
I mean, they’re both large-ish personal luxury coupes of sorts, no?
Bentleys really do know how to depreciate.
With all the changes life has brought for me over the past few years, including covid fun, job changes, location changes, etc., the one thing I've decided I will never, ever, do again is be forced to pay fancy repair bills on fancy cars at fancy mechanics. Screw that. If you can get past caring what other people think, you fun car life becomes much more carefree, inexpensive and enjoyable. And, yes, fun. I'd rather get something I can wrench on myself, or worst case scenario, be able to take to any corner garage anywhere. I'm honestly at a point in my life where I just don't give a flying fuck what my automotive choices say or mean to anyone, other then myself.
And I'm not sure why my answer ended up there, as I was responding to a different post. Oh well.