I didn’t hate these when they first came out, I think that it would have failed just on marketing alone, there was always a push for people to go to larger offerings, people buying Cadillac were not into smaller, I think just the nature of people, I have always liked the idea of a more premium small car, Mini comes to mind.
Great read. To me, if Cadillac had launched with the 87, no one would have complained. But the first one was a very minor redo of the very coarse Cavalier. Maybe if they would gave added a euro quality engine from the get go? Of course, a bit more time for development would have helped too. Unlike the other cars mentioned, the Cimarrons greatest early failing was that it just looked too much like the car it was based on. And the car it shared showroom floor space with.
If they could have used the Firenz/Hawk dash as a starter, with a bit better interior trimmings, and the 1987 underpinnings (but with a five-speed stick or four-speed AOD), it would have been fine.
I actually liked the Cimmarrons. Yeah, they weren't exactly anything special, but it was a nice upgrade on a lower end car. I don't know if I would have spent the extra cash for a new one, but a slightly used older one would have been fine.
As a lessor of a hybrid CR-V I’ve always had a soft spot for these cars. I feel like they would have been epic 2 year old used cars. The ES arguably followed a similar trajectory to these cars. What we called the ES was basically a luxxed up version of the JDM Toyota Windom which was basically a Camry with different headlights and frameless glass. The 92 Windom and by extension the ES had considerably different look from the Camry (arguably more stylish than the LS) and sold very well from there on out. Ironically the ES is probably the closest thing one can buy to the 98’s, and Park Avenues you can buy today.
GM should have got a Rolls grill from the swap meet to class it up. You have to love the old greenhouse. Assuming passenger vehicles still exist in the future it would be nice if they either solved fitting airbags in skinny pillars or allowed consumers to sign a waiver accepting the risk
It is strange to me how many "badge engineered" cars I would love to own. It was between a xr4ti, rx7 and an e30 for a first car. I WILL own the two I passed on.
In hindsight the Cimmeron seems better than a lot of other crap available.
My mom loves, and did until she bought a v6 mustang, her Scion TC. Yes she was a professional secretary.
Was the Acura CL 3.2-S an Accord? They were awesome.
Additionally I lust after both a 318ti, the ultimate e30, fight me on that, AND the weird super charged manual MB hatch that was its near contemporary.
I rented an XR4Ti in Arizona when they came out and took it on dirt roads for quite a ways. It’s the only time I ever washed a rental car before I brought it back because it was caked with red dirt.
Under that truncated rear was the rear suspension of an e30, which is what made it fun. The z3 was similar in that regard. I don't think the interior styling of the z3 has held up.
Going from the sample size of 2 that I got to know, the main problem with the w203 MB "sports coupes" was that it was an entry-level MB with S-class repair costs and crap-class interior fittings.
That said, it was around $27k new, which is about $47k now and puts you in a well-equipped 230i. We dump on the modern state of cars, but this particular comparison is a great improvement. I'm no beemer-lover, but looked at a new 230i - VERY - hard this past spring.
I had a P11 Infiniti G20 and - to this day - curse Nissan for not giving us the SR20DET. Probably would've made around 190HP and it would've slapped around A4's with ease.
Still, it had one of the best combinations of ride, handling and steering I've experienced. And it was screwed together like it cost 3x as much.
I bought mine as a CPO, after I got fed up with the $1k repairs on my '94 Grand Cherokee. The final straw was the $1100 bill (in 2002 dollars, mind you) to fix the A/C.
The WHOLE DASH had to come out, piece by piece, to get to the compressor.
I was pretty young when the Cimarron came out so I missed the trashing that went on in the "enthusiast" mags of the day. But having been a hard core GM lover, I reflexively liked the Cimarron. I might be a little rusty here but the 1982 Cimarron was more different than the Cavalier than is commonly thought. The Cavalier had the dual square headlight setup while the Cimarron had the quad headlights. It didn't take long for Chevy to ape that look so it brought the Cimarron down.
I agree the engine should have been better from the get go and the interior could have used a different dash like the later Skyhawk and Firenzas. But I won't expend too much ammo fighting the battle of who could care less so I'll stop here. Except to say I'd love to have an 87 or 88 five speed Cimarron right about now
Some fancy Opel Ascona you got there... tell ya what I'll take it off your hands for $700 if it starts ;)
It's not unheard of to tart up a lower-category vehicle to ridiculous levels (the price of the Cimarron made it the failure everyone talks about), the Cygnet was mentioned already in the comments, there was the lowest-of-the-low Austin Metro that got the same leather-clad treatment as the iQ, it was called a "Frazer-Tickford Metro" and on market for more money than a 944. Since Tickford was already at it, later they manufactured the MG Maestro Turbo, a supposed GTi-killer, sadly only built 500 times, and costing almost 5/3 of the Volkswagen, another halo model that mainly occupies 100.000-subscriber Youtube channels nowadays.
The Ford "Heritage Edition" Ranchero for $12.000 in 1979, as I understand it this was a standard Ranchero with vinyl stripes and the seats out of the Heritage Edition Thunderbird.
A bit closer to (my) home was the Škoda Octavia "Laurin & Klement", named after the founders of Škoda. This was the highest option you could get in this VW Golf with a trunk; you got leather seats, charcoal black carpet and headliner, big engines (well...) but since it was 'just' a Škoda, the doorcards were still vinyl, some equipment was not available that you could get in an A3, but it cost more than an A4 Audi. I've seen more press demonstrators than privately owned Octavia L&Ks.
My college roommate graduated a year behind me, just in time to get a great deal on an '82 Cimarron Convertible. New car interest rates were stratospheric at the time, well over 15% and his 10.3% new college graduate financing package was a steal. This ad shows a bit of the early 80's captive auto finance wars, without the "special incentives" like the new graduate rate. https://www.ebay.com/itm/304008710690
I had moved to Denver from Tennessee and his first engineering job was in San Diego so he stopped by for a week or two on the way to the left coast. Without any experience driving brand new cars at the time, it seemed nice enough for a tarted up Cavalier. He said there was also a bunch of money on the hood with his deal and he was happy with his new car. I have no idea how long he owned it.
I think the dead ass sins guy is wrong about this car. Built in preparation for a fuel crisis that never materialized until after it passed its expiration date this vehicle was a small bet for the future.
Never got to ride in the Caddy version of the J car but owned a 85 Cavalier picked up from a sketchy used car lot a friend had a connection at. $800 bucks for an 85 Cavalier that delivered Chinese and made a road trip from Milwaukee to Las Vegas and back. Never had any issues except the GM power steering illness that plagued cars of that era.
This also if memory serves correct the biggest GM copypasta in its history. All 5 car divisions plus Holden, Opel, Vauxhall, Izusu and the unforgettable Toyota Cavalier. Don't know if the General figured out how to make money on them but they had a lot of volume. To call this a failure is just revisionist history.
I don't disagree that the J-cars as a whole were not awful to GM, but what do you think about the damage that was done to Cadillac, "The Standard of the World?"
I am sure it played a part but it could have been just a historical footnote had GM not stopped making full size rwd automobiles, got rid of model names and produced the Catera. The only real Cadillac is the Escalade.
I'll say it, I'd rock one everyday. Fuck the haters of GM. I may be biased but GM use to try and hit the mark more often than not.
not saying this because the people who hate them told me to but these are pretty ugly
It's a freaking Duesenberg compared to a CR-V or, ye gods, a Dodge Hornet. :D
Not hyperbole. Truth
I didn’t hate these when they first came out, I think that it would have failed just on marketing alone, there was always a push for people to go to larger offerings, people buying Cadillac were not into smaller, I think just the nature of people, I have always liked the idea of a more premium small car, Mini comes to mind.
I'm a Mercury Lynx fan myself but Lincoln coulda Cygnetted that bitch.
My inner hipster would rock a Cygnett un-ironically.
Lincoln version of a Mercury Bobcat. The Mark 0.5.
Great read. To me, if Cadillac had launched with the 87, no one would have complained. But the first one was a very minor redo of the very coarse Cavalier. Maybe if they would gave added a euro quality engine from the get go? Of course, a bit more time for development would have helped too. Unlike the other cars mentioned, the Cimarrons greatest early failing was that it just looked too much like the car it was based on. And the car it shared showroom floor space with.
If they could have used the Firenz/Hawk dash as a starter, with a bit better interior trimmings, and the 1987 underpinnings (but with a five-speed stick or four-speed AOD), it would have been fine.
I actually liked the Cimmarrons. Yeah, they weren't exactly anything special, but it was a nice upgrade on a lower end car. I don't know if I would have spent the extra cash for a new one, but a slightly used older one would have been fine.
I kinda did too - especially the latter years.
As a lessor of a hybrid CR-V I’ve always had a soft spot for these cars. I feel like they would have been epic 2 year old used cars. The ES arguably followed a similar trajectory to these cars. What we called the ES was basically a luxxed up version of the JDM Toyota Windom which was basically a Camry with different headlights and frameless glass. The 92 Windom and by extension the ES had considerably different look from the Camry (arguably more stylish than the LS) and sold very well from there on out. Ironically the ES is probably the closest thing one can buy to the 98’s, and Park Avenues you can buy today.
GM should have got a Rolls grill from the swap meet to class it up. You have to love the old greenhouse. Assuming passenger vehicles still exist in the future it would be nice if they either solved fitting airbags in skinny pillars or allowed consumers to sign a waiver accepting the risk
I miss large windows in cars. My '91 940 had such great visibility.
Thick A and C pillars suck.
I also miss convertibles where the doors don’t come up higher than your shoulders like modern convertibles.
Sign me up for that waiver.
It is strange to me how many "badge engineered" cars I would love to own. It was between a xr4ti, rx7 and an e30 for a first car. I WILL own the two I passed on.
In hindsight the Cimmeron seems better than a lot of other crap available.
My mom loves, and did until she bought a v6 mustang, her Scion TC. Yes she was a professional secretary.
Was the Acura CL 3.2-S an Accord? They were awesome.
Additionally I lust after both a 318ti, the ultimate e30, fight me on that, AND the weird super charged manual MB hatch that was its near contemporary.
I like the XR4Tis too. Saw a pretty nice one in Nauvoo, IL a few years ago. With the "Swiss cheese" alloys.
I rented an XR4Ti in Arizona when they came out and took it on dirt roads for quite a ways. It’s the only time I ever washed a rental car before I brought it back because it was caked with red dirt.
I don't wanna fight, but the 318ti wasn't an E30....
it was a weirdly truncated thing
not a fan personally
One of our greatest achievements back in the day was stuffing an entire 5.0 Explorer engine the rear hatch of my buddy’s 318ti at the local yonke.
Under that truncated rear was the rear suspension of an e30, which is what made it fun. The z3 was similar in that regard. I don't think the interior styling of the z3 has held up.
Going from the sample size of 2 that I got to know, the main problem with the w203 MB "sports coupes" was that it was an entry-level MB with S-class repair costs and crap-class interior fittings.
That said, it was around $27k new, which is about $47k now and puts you in a well-equipped 230i. We dump on the modern state of cars, but this particular comparison is a great improvement. I'm no beemer-lover, but looked at a new 230i - VERY - hard this past spring.
I had a P11 Infiniti G20 and - to this day - curse Nissan for not giving us the SR20DET. Probably would've made around 190HP and it would've slapped around A4's with ease.
Still, it had one of the best combinations of ride, handling and steering I've experienced. And it was screwed together like it cost 3x as much.
an sr20det would have turned those things into missiles
assuming silvia numbers it would have started at 200hp and bolt ons would have pushed it past 250 easily
also it would have made the sr20dets cheaper which is the real reason i wish they made them like that
I think they would've needed a beefier transmission as well. But ultimately, they just didn't want the G20 to compete with the I30/35.
The G20 was the toughest car to sell you could possibly imagine. I think I sold four of them in a whole summer.
I bought mine as a CPO, after I got fed up with the $1k repairs on my '94 Grand Cherokee. The final straw was the $1100 bill (in 2002 dollars, mind you) to fix the A/C.
The WHOLE DASH had to come out, piece by piece, to get to the compressor.
Cimarrons here and on Hagerty today - what a feast!
"See the U.S.A. in Your Chevrolet!"
"Drive Your Cimarron to Cimarron!" (which was not opened until December 4, 1985, somewhat late in this model's life)
In the UK the Mk2 Cavalier, which looks a lot like this, was a superb car. Not sure of the differences.
I was pretty young when the Cimarron came out so I missed the trashing that went on in the "enthusiast" mags of the day. But having been a hard core GM lover, I reflexively liked the Cimarron. I might be a little rusty here but the 1982 Cimarron was more different than the Cavalier than is commonly thought. The Cavalier had the dual square headlight setup while the Cimarron had the quad headlights. It didn't take long for Chevy to ape that look so it brought the Cimarron down.
I agree the engine should have been better from the get go and the interior could have used a different dash like the later Skyhawk and Firenzas. But I won't expend too much ammo fighting the battle of who could care less so I'll stop here. Except to say I'd love to have an 87 or 88 five speed Cimarron right about now
Some fancy Opel Ascona you got there... tell ya what I'll take it off your hands for $700 if it starts ;)
It's not unheard of to tart up a lower-category vehicle to ridiculous levels (the price of the Cimarron made it the failure everyone talks about), the Cygnet was mentioned already in the comments, there was the lowest-of-the-low Austin Metro that got the same leather-clad treatment as the iQ, it was called a "Frazer-Tickford Metro" and on market for more money than a 944. Since Tickford was already at it, later they manufactured the MG Maestro Turbo, a supposed GTi-killer, sadly only built 500 times, and costing almost 5/3 of the Volkswagen, another halo model that mainly occupies 100.000-subscriber Youtube channels nowadays.
The Ford "Heritage Edition" Ranchero for $12.000 in 1979, as I understand it this was a standard Ranchero with vinyl stripes and the seats out of the Heritage Edition Thunderbird.
A bit closer to (my) home was the Škoda Octavia "Laurin & Klement", named after the founders of Škoda. This was the highest option you could get in this VW Golf with a trunk; you got leather seats, charcoal black carpet and headliner, big engines (well...) but since it was 'just' a Škoda, the doorcards were still vinyl, some equipment was not available that you could get in an A3, but it cost more than an A4 Audi. I've seen more press demonstrators than privately owned Octavia L&Ks.
My college roommate graduated a year behind me, just in time to get a great deal on an '82 Cimarron Convertible. New car interest rates were stratospheric at the time, well over 15% and his 10.3% new college graduate financing package was a steal. This ad shows a bit of the early 80's captive auto finance wars, without the "special incentives" like the new graduate rate. https://www.ebay.com/itm/304008710690
I had moved to Denver from Tennessee and his first engineering job was in San Diego so he stopped by for a week or two on the way to the left coast. Without any experience driving brand new cars at the time, it seemed nice enough for a tarted up Cavalier. He said there was also a bunch of money on the hood with his deal and he was happy with his new car. I have no idea how long he owned it.
I think the dead ass sins guy is wrong about this car. Built in preparation for a fuel crisis that never materialized until after it passed its expiration date this vehicle was a small bet for the future.
Never got to ride in the Caddy version of the J car but owned a 85 Cavalier picked up from a sketchy used car lot a friend had a connection at. $800 bucks for an 85 Cavalier that delivered Chinese and made a road trip from Milwaukee to Las Vegas and back. Never had any issues except the GM power steering illness that plagued cars of that era.
This also if memory serves correct the biggest GM copypasta in its history. All 5 car divisions plus Holden, Opel, Vauxhall, Izusu and the unforgettable Toyota Cavalier. Don't know if the General figured out how to make money on them but they had a lot of volume. To call this a failure is just revisionist history.
I don't disagree that the J-cars as a whole were not awful to GM, but what do you think about the damage that was done to Cadillac, "The Standard of the World?"
I am sure it played a part but it could have been just a historical footnote had GM not stopped making full size rwd automobiles, got rid of model names and produced the Catera. The only real Cadillac is the Escalade.
...and even Escalade is actually a truck. O tempora, o mores!