In response to the NASA-bashing, for anyone looking for the other side of the story:
Full disclosure: I've never run with SCCA. I'm a current NASA-licensed racer, and I've also run with WRL and various low-buck enduro series.
Jack's point about NASA not being a place to race prototypes seems fair. The disparity of NASA's "open" (all makes) Super Touring classes is pretty wide. The only Radical I've ever seen run in my NASA region was some guy who was the sole Super Touring Unlimited entrant, who basically had a track day through spec class traffic, then celebrated his overall win waving the Brazilian flag on his cool-down lap...
However, NASA is a GREAT place for racing Miatas, E30's, E36's, Mustangs, Camaros, and Corvettes... you know, the cars that most normal people can afford.
There's a defined pathway through NASA's HPDE program to go from track day novice to racing your favorite make wheel-to-wheel with other fans of your favorite make... The spec format means very, very close racing, with other very skilled racers. It's easy to look good when your car is really doing the work... it's much, much harder to look good when all the drivers are in the same car. My Spec Iron class would often qualify P3-P8 within a second of each other... I qualified P2 once in a field of about 10 Spec Iron Mustangs, and that remains one of my most cherished racing accomplishments, even more than TT and enduro wins...
Jack talked about a Spec Iron Mustang taking out his nose piece at considerable expense... usually when I got tagged by another SI buddy, we'd find each other in the paddock after the race to high-five and watch each other's video. Sometimes there might be a mark on the bumper... oh well. Used Mustang bumpers were around $100.
I'm sure it's a real thrill to drive a prototype, and even more thrilling to compete in one. That's not going to be feasible for most people... As the saying goes, no racing is cheap. But if you can afford the safety equipment for yourself and your car, you can go racing with NASA...
Correct. All NASA race cars must pass an annual tech inspection that verifies safety equipment is up to date... full roll cage, current seat/harnesses/nets, fire system, kill switch. The class director will also verify class-specific modifications...
Pinning this comment for visibility and because I think it makes a great case for NASA.
I'll do a NASA-centric article in the near future, but for the purposes of this discussion, I think the primary issue is: It would take a foolhardy person, or a very rich person, or someone who hasn't had a lot of experience watching NASA deal with their spec classes, to buy a new $45,000 car for the purpose of racing it with NASA.
I would bet every motorcycle I own plus half my watches on there being an SRF class in SCCA for some considerable time after NASA closes the book on the Rush SR guest class.
NASA had the most handsome flag waver back in 2006 at MidOhio for the first Nationals. I was moving cross country to Chicago from CT and traded a couple nights’ lodging for working the track for two days from a guy I “knew” on Corner-Carvers. Highlight was being on the platform on the back straight and having a Spec FFR lose his steering wheel literally right under me and hit the wall. IIRC he earned a helicopter ride for his troubles. I went back the next year to help again, and then I think they moved it out west and that was the end of my flagging career.
Which is all totally fine -- unless you just did a HELOC or sold everything you own to go racing in a Rush. There are quite a few non-racers out there who are thinking about selling their street cars to buy a Rush, and so on. That's risky IMO.
I prefer racing in NASA regions with enough racers to have split Lightning and Thunder groups. That said, they both have their issues.
Lightning is much more similarly paced across the board. HOWEVER, the Spec Miata and Spec E30 types tend to be pretty "full send" and crashy, which has it's own issues.
Thunder has huge pace discrepancy. I've been on track with a real deal IMSA LMP2 car while in an ST4 E90. I don't really love that, personally.
I'm of the mindset that prototypes shouldn't be on the track with sports cars, that is probably something that SCCA gets right, but I have never raced with SCCA either.
* A clear and documented process for resolving disputes on and off track, complete with appeals and the availability of external auditors. This also applies to tech inspection.
* NOT HAVING YOUR "SERIES LEADER" RACING AGAINST YOU AND DOING COMPLIANCE!!!!!!
* Not having a "group leader" who is too busy working on his car to actually watch the race he's supposed to be managing
* No bullshit dyno classes that are invariably won via multi-map ECUs.
...and the most important of all:
No, repeat, Zero, HPDE drivers at the event. That means that the days are MUCH shorter, and for most racers really only require your presence at the track for 5 or 6 hours total. There's plenty of parking. You don't have Corvettes with custom vinyl number plates ripping through the paddock at 40mph past children and fuel jugs. Instead of having to kill time while 4 classes of HPDE and a time trial class run, you can actually watch 5 or 6 other interesting races.
It's been a decade since I thought it was worth racing NASA anywhere but Mid-Ohio. I'd rather pull for an SCCA race than drive next door and race NASA at Mid-O.
The NASA Bashing makes you and your written article irrelevant and biased. Not to laugh but you should have done some fact checking. BTW how many life flights out of the run offs the last 2 years. Keep bashing and carting cars and drivers out by AMR. Meanwhile, the rest of us will keep seeing right thru you and your very weak attempt to wrap your disdain for the rush car in your hate for NASA. BTW, Bless those crippled and injured by the absolute take anyone at any level in any SCCA event and then blame the drivers when the inevitable happens. You’re right you guys have it figured out.
lol! How many lost events and classes this year in SCCA? The new owner of the SCCA clearly does not see things the old school way. Countless lost equipment and cars. Severe injuries. Numerous life flights. Mismanaged events that are staggering to drivers. Fights among your own volunteers and staff. Events where only a handful show up at all. Man wake up the only joke in racing right now is the SCCA and those that defend them like you!
I'll say this, and then I'll leave you be in peace -- SCCA is stronger in the Midwest than NASA is, that's where I race, that's what is primarily important to me.
The SCCA has no "owner", it a nonprofit held in trust by the members.
I was an SCCA CSR for about 20 years from 1991. During that time we handled all of the SCCA Spec classes: SR, SRF, Shelby Can Am, Panoz GT, and Formula Enterprises (FE). The ones that remain are SRF and FE. SRF offers the best competition, the best track support, the best reliability, continuing technical evolution, and compliance monitoring which is unsurpassed by any racing class. At any SCCA event you can count on a knowledgeable CSR to be on site with advice and parts. It takes a "big one" for a Saturday incident to keep you off of the track for Sunday. The FE does not offer the level of participation or support of the SRF but in my opinion, is still the most sensible open wheel option for SCCA. I've owned (3) Radical SR3's and they are superb race cars, and the BUSA versions are reliable and offer great racing or track day fun. Any reasonably competent mechanic or owner can prep and maintain these cars. I've been involved with Vintage Racing since the '90's and I'll post a follow up on how that option should be a consideration.
I drove my first vintage race at Road America in 1984 at the predecessor of the current WeatherTech vintage event which was the Chicago Historic Races. It was founded by Chicago restauranteur and Ferrari guy, Joe Marchetti. One of the treats associated with that event was the dinner hosted by Joe's Como Inn (Joe knew his Italian food). I qualified 3rd out of a big field of fifties and sixties sports cars and ahead of Joe's 250 SWB. I pulled off in turn 5 with fuel pick up problems ... ie ... it quit. I'd been on the outside of the fence for years watching F5000, Can Am, Trans Am and the June Sprints and I was racing (sort of) on that famous track in my 250GT.
A few years later, I became the SOWDIV CSR, primarily to write off my vintage racing and all the stuff needed to go racing. My passion was still old racing cars and over the years our shop ran F1, Can Am, F5000, F/Atl, F/Jr, lots of FF's and a few various sports racers. Most of my customers came for the SRF guys, and few FE guys who ran out of the shop. At one time we probably ran 10 FF's, all of which were the pre-'73 cigar bodied cars. Now days, with some groups, you can run a FF up to a current SCCA car. Back then, the cost was $16k to $25K. Guess what, same price today. A few guys wanted to go faster and we ended up running a bunch of F/Atlantics. They cost was $50K to $75K and they cost the same or less today. Here's the deal about racing vintage: first, with many clubs, if there's contact, you are done for the weekend and if it happens again, you can be out for the season. I can't tell you how many late nights at an SCCA race was spent putting an SRF back together after some bone head move on the track ... usually caused by the other bone head. FYI, crashes on any race car are expensive so any way to minimize that, maximizes the fun. No one wants to have their shit torn up and in vintage, that's much less likely to happen than in SCCA. Plus, in vintage, there are lots of very cool cars and in some cases historically important. Second, If you want to be out there learning or driving well within yourself, or driving something that's beyond your skill level to get close to 10-10's, that's fine too. Having said that, it does not mean that there aren't serious drivers and some great wheel to wheel competition ... either is fine. The full fender alternative in the real race car category are the sports racers. A nice S2000 will run a bit more than an FF, maybe $20K to $30K. A 2L sports racer was over $200K a few years ago but are $125K to $175K these days. If you can write the check, you can try anything out that you want to. You might look like a bozo being passed by a Radical in your McLaren Can Am, but you can do the Walter Mitty thing if you want to (also a great vintage event at R/Atl). I'm not a production car guy since I don't want to own a creeper, but a huge number of ways to go there as well. Vintage is a big tent with large events and small, prestige events (Monterey), and local, crazy cool cars and FV's and FF's, and S2000's ... whatever you want to try. Vintage events are all over the country. Note that American Vintage Racing is not what you see at Goodwood ... the no contact thing is not going on at Goodwood.
I remember being at Road America in the early 90s for the Can Am historics, it was one of the coolest racing memories I have, seeing those beasts and in some case their original drivers. Watching the field come down the hill and going by was fantastic.
INACURACIES and mis-representations about the RUSH SR
Full disclosure: I am the California Rush Dealer and the oldest and largest RUSH dealer in the U.S.
My first issue with this article is that you took and posted a photo of an old published newspaper coroner’s headline to attract attention to your article. This was a horrific tragedy. A Racer and husband lost his life and this happened March of 2024. Why the article now? Although you claim not to have a dog in the hunt, it sure comes across as very negative, 1 sided and frankly very much ill informed. Let me clear up all the mis-conceptions and statements made in this article about the car.
1) The fatality: The horrific event that you are now bringing up 6 months later was not something that had anything to do with the driver being in a RUSH per se (other than the fact that it was an open cockpit car. It would have happened in ANY open cockpit car (such as the 1's you recommend like the SRF and Radical) I was there. I was the 1st non emergency responder on scene. I saw the video (frame by frame) I later took possession of the car, then out of respect for the family and at their wishes had it crushed...I never want to witness anything like that again and don't wish it on any of our fellow racers. It should be noted that there are plenty of videos out there that show debris intrusion even through windshields on sedans. It was an act of God and a horrible tragedy...no one's fault.
2) Rush's "response": Rush did not create the Trident bar system as a result of the incident. Prototype examples of the bars can be seen on cars in videos back as far as October 2023 (you can see 2 examples by watching the Grid Life Laguna Seca race Oct 2023. The release of the Trident bars was already scheduled. It should be noted that these bars are an option and for those that still wish to order a car with the standard dual front accessory bars, they can. Drivers with the Trident bars are not complaining about "significant visibility" issues. Owners of older cars can even retro-fit the new Trident bars on their cars at certified installation centers. Somewhat similar type bars are obviously on Indy and F1 cars.
3) Claiming that Spec racer Fords have gone 40 years without an incident and are somehow safer in this regard is purely luck and I'm glad there have been no fatalities like this. Again, debris can effect any open cockpit car – and even closed windshielded cars.
4) You made a claim that Rush seemed “unaware of safety requirements” outside of NASA and the car was designed to compete within NASA. 100% totally false. The Rush SR was not designed to any such “NASA Specification” nor have we ever intended to run the car with NASA exclusively. We are well aware of the NP01 and have ZERO affiliation with NASA when it comes to this regard. To imply that the car is somehow “less safe” or built to a lesser standard is also false. For what its worth, I have my only son driving a RUSH and have witnessed crashes that would have totaled other cars but did minor to only moderate damage to the RUSH with NO damage to the driver cockpit or main chassis. The RUSH is every bit as tough or tougher than the Radical you mentioned and includes significant side intrusion protection. The Trident bars have been over engineered to exceed 7x the rigidity strength requirements. The car also has frontal crush zones/boxes and significant side intrusion bars.
5) NASA and Grid Life: You mention concern about buying a car that only competes in NASA or Grid Life and the possibility of a long term place to race outside of NASA. RUSH is in the final stages of SCCA homologation and is only weeks, if not days away from the final approval paperwork. Both SCCA SFR and Cal Club would love to see us join them and that is close to finalization. No worries here as there will soon be more places to race a Rush than most competitive cars.
6) Reliability and availability of parts: So we took delivery of our car Dec 2021 and have raced it and offered demo drives in it for 3 straight years now. We probably have more time and miles on our car than any typical owner would put on their cars in over 6 years time. It has been extremely reliable and provided you perform routine maintenance and preventative maintenance as outlined in the owners manual, there are no issues with the Suzuki powerplant and transmission. With over 240 cars on track across the US, Canada and Mexico, there have been only a very small handful of powertrain failures of any kind – and those may or may not have been somewhat caused by owner neglect or ignorance. You question maintenance costs being low based on your observations at a NASA event and compare that to SRF? Not sure how you could ascertain that. I can tell you that over 3 years, we spend less money on our RUSH than my son and I spent on his Shifter Kart we ran in SCUSA S2. Again, proper maintenance and a good dealer educating their customers is likely the key here.
7) Long term viability: I do agree that in theory, any race car company can go out of business and potentially leave owners without a parts supply. Rush semi officially launched at Sema in 2019…we were present at that launch. They survived COVID, doubled manufacturing space, launched Regional and National racing series, developed a 2nd car, the RUSH SRX, and are at a pace to sell nearly 100 cars a year! No one can guarantee the future, but the company is solid.
8) You touted that folks maybe should buy a SRF and they have 974 SRFs sold. That’s a lot of cars out there for sure, but it took them 40 years to sell that many. We are close to selling chassis 300 in really just over 3 years and with the exposure and visibility, sales are accelerating.
Finally, I’m not going to address the comparisons of the cars you mentioned: Miatas, SRF, Radical, I love all racecars and there is no 1 size fits all when it comes to making a choice to have a bunch of fun at the track. Choose any of these cars, or any spec sedan, and you will have the time of your life for sure! I just wonder why such obvious disgust with the RUSH such that you took so much time to investigate (on the surface) than formulate such a negative opinion about the car, and publish an article (using the fatality as click bait basically). It’s kind of not cool brother. I welcome the opportunity to offer you and your readers, a more comprehensive look and drive of the car and evaluate the trackside support we provide our customers in California, and across the country.
I've pinned your comment so people can read it. For the record -- I wrote this because I've had a dozen people or more come to me about the Rush. Having told all of them that they're better off in an SRF, I thought it would be reasonable and ethical to discuss it with my readers as well. I don't stand to benefit in any way. It's a free-to-read article and there are no ads here.
Thank you for your comprehensive comment. I have a few responses, which you're free to engage with or ignore as you see best.
You note:
"The fatality: The horrific event... would have happened in ANY open cockpit car (such as the 1's you recommend like the SRF and Radical) I was there" As I noted elsewhere, I'm neither a vehicle engineer nor an aero engineer. What I know is this: SRF hasn't had a fatality like that in 40 years of operation. If Radical has had a fatality like that, I'm not aware of it and neither are the Radical dealers with which I've spoken. So: why Rush, in the second year of operation? Maybe it's completely random. Maybe it's an aspect of how the car is designed. I'm not here to draw a conclusion.
"Rush did not create the Trident bar system as a result of the incident." I'll take your word for it -- I was informed about this during a conversation with Rush owners, who presumably aren't as close to the source as you are. As to visibility -- there sure is a lot of metal out there in front of the drivers.
"You made a claim that Rush seemed “unaware of safety requirements” outside of NASA and the car was designed to compete within NASA. 100% totally false." Not a claim -- simply repeating what an ApexSpeed reader reported after speaking directly with RAW about running the car outside NASA. His report was that RAW had no knowledge about safety standards elsewhere, nor (in his opinion) any desire to know about them.
"RUSH is in the final stages of SCCA homologation" For what class? Other than SRF, there's literally no sports-racer class in the SCCA that isn't ten seconds a lap faster, or more, most places.
"not sure how you could ascertain that. I can tell you that over 3 years, we spend less money on our RUSH than my son and I spent on his Shifter Kart we ran in SCUSA S2" Sir, I've seen Grand-Am teams spend less than winning SKUSA teams -- but I'll take your note on this.
"We are close to selling chassis 300 in really just over 3 years and with the exposure and visibility, sales are accelerating." Well, let's hope the company stays together and can support the cars in the long run. They're 38 years behind SCCA Enterprises in terms of proven durability.
"I just wonder why such obvious disgust with the RUSH such that you took so much time to investigate (on the surface) than formulate such a negative opinion about the car, and publish an article (using the fatality as click bait basically). It’s kind of not cool brother."
As I noted before, I'm just responding to reader questions and concerns. I have no personal interest in this, other than having made the decision to put my daughter in an SRF this year instead of a Rush.
As I told another commenter here, my primary "issue" with the Rush is that it is yet another tool with which the for-profit trackday pimps can use to get rich while continuing to damage the SCCA. I don't like the danger aspect to running a Rush in a NASA group -- and I've run a sports racer in mixed groups plenty of times, it's more a case of me not wanting novice drivers to be exposed to the danger. It may not be "cool" to discuss the Rush in the context of a driver fatality, but if I wanted to be "cool" I'd be racing Formula Atlantic. :)
I wish you and your compatriots all the luck in the world. I'd rather see your customers in the SRF3, helping to continue the existence of the one nationwide spec sports-racer class of any size, but who knows? Maybe RAW will sell a thousand of these things and they will get their own SCCA class -- or they'll combine with SRF3, which seems like the logical way to handle it. In the meantime, I'll continue to advise drivers to choose SRF over the Rush product, partially because the car is almost certain to be supported into the future and partially because club racing will always be morally superior to for-profit psuedo-pro racing franchises.
Fact check much?? So many inaccuracies it borders on defamation. JB’s article is the written form of everything that is wrong with the SCCA and why they alone are responsible for its downfall. I mean he almost sounds like he has forgotten the 3 life flights and countless destroyed cars from the run offs and the sprints all less than 6 months ago. Imagine knowing the current severity and massive issues within the SCCA and still writing this arrogant POS article. Here’s some usable advice to the author… don’t worry about the spec in the eyes of others while there is a log in yours!
Thoughts on SM for completeness? It's obviously cheaper than smx5 and will have big fields literally everywhere. Advantage of both is you can also run them in the various cheap Enduro series. I'd love a full post series on "so you want to go wheel to wheel racing". This post is most of the way to one of them. I'm a ways from needing it because I've only done a few hpdes in rented SMish miatas on street tires. I'm thinking about picking up an NC miata to use for street driving and de and maybe smxing it down the road.
It's an absolute blast. Not sure where you're located, but the Friday track days at Palmer in MA are great. https://www.palmermotorsportspark.com/experiences.aspx?ID=div1. $1095 for a day of 4 30 minute sessions on track with an instructor in a miata, all inclusive. (other than damage). If you're willing to spend in that ballpark on a day of fun, it's totally worth it, imo. If you buy your own car, your per day cost will be a lot lower, but if you can only do 1 or a few days a year, renting is cheaper, and you can't beat the convenience of just showing up and driving.
Yeah, the instructors I've had were pretty good. The first time he mostly focused on learning the line around the track, talking me through it as we went. Later on the first day, I started to have the basics of getting around the track memorized, freeing him up to coach me toward going faster. This past year the track came back quick (helped by the fact that there's an Asetto Corsa mod of the track now and I ran some simulated laps ahead of time. This allowed this times instructor to focus on correcting stuff. My biggest issues are being too active with the steering, and diving to the apex instead of bending it in carrying more speed. Simracing definitely shortens the learning curve a lot, I was quicker than most of the novice group. Getting a point by from a 911 in a miata is immensely satisfying.
I came here to ask this question, so for all my forum expats 2nded. I've kicked the can down the road on road racing long enough and at this point in my life if I'm going to do it I want to start with a plan.
I deliberately left SM off my list for a few reasons, including:
0. The newest eligible car is, literally, a vintage car by most measures. Most of the SMs out there have either celebrated their 25th birthday or are about to. Any donor car you find is going to be old as well, with all that entails.
1. The price of being truly competitive is more than most people want to pay. The price of NOT being competitive is getting bumped out of the way by arrogant wannabe Sennas with $15k engines.
2. I think larger drivers often put themselves at risk in these cars, particularly with regard to door bars and seat positioning.
3. There are very few parts, and very few donor cars, and NO bargains, left.
It should also be said that SM is not in the same speed range as SMX5, Global, Rush, SRF, or any of the other classes discussed. They REALLY ARE slow cars.
In 2005, you were probably an idiot NOT to consider Spec Miata. In 2025, I think there are better options.
I drove a Spec E30 last year, just filling in for a sick driver in an enduro -- those are OLD cars now, my God, most of them will be 40 years old pretty soon. Still a lot of fun to drive, albeit because they have terrible grip :)
If you like old BMW's might I suggest looking into SpecE46. Plenty of donor E46 330's available, and the car can be driven in BWMCCA, NASA or with small modifications, SCCA T3. Running costs are pretty low, cars are very solid, handle very well and are fun to drive. Only downside is good used race cars can sell for $30 - 50k, but are way safer than a Rush. Definitely faster and more modern than a SM, Spec E30 or Spec3. Lots of parts still available. Usually classed in NASA in Lightning (here in the NE) so you don't need to spend the entire race dodging Vipers and Corvettes . Added benefit: take it to DE's and pass 911's and Caymans at tracks like Lime Rock and Palmer ;)
Not sure which enduro series you’re looking at but I can give you a pretty thorough list of pros and cons regarding Champcar enduros and why I haven’t missed them since I started racing with SCCA.
If you’re in MA/New England (assuming from your Palmer comment below) you should know the New Hampshire Kart Association (NHKA) is a great option to start if you’re interested/open to karting for your wheel-to-wheel fix.
Very friendly and supportive club environment, multiple teams providing tent support and affordable arrive & drive options, good field sizes with over 100 drivers at each race day. I’ve never had a field smaller than 15.
I actually live in NH. I've been meaning to come out to an NHKA event to check it out. Which class do you run? What's a ballpark cost to arrive and drive?
I run Lo206, which is probably the most popular engine in the club at this point. Depending on who you rent from a full race day in 206 could cost $400-$600 for the kart plus the club fees of about $150/race. I’m not sure what 2-stroke costs per day.
I didn’t have any wheel-to-wheel experience before starting. Just autocross, simracing, indoor karting leagues, and one (1) HPDE.
For the first couple of races in the season they have a “safety course” in the morning for newbies where you will run with just other newbies in open practice.
They’ll watch to see that you can control your kart, throw flags to make sure you see and respond to them, and if confident in your abilities will permit you to move into the race in the afternoon.
Email Don and let him know you want to arrive and drive. He makes it very easy, though you do need your own gear.
You need to watch the NHKA’s website in the winter/spring for when club membership signups and safety course registrations open.
Well this car talk timing is funny, I was just considering calling the race shop I fire sold my mustang to. But also did anyone ever get any more info on that florida shop that does ND Miata V8 swaps? That looks like a pretty sweet setup if it’s legit…
I've never talked to or read about someone who actually owned a V8 Roaster or FlyinMiata car to know if their packages are fully baked or if they have the typical swap challenges as the owner puts miles on the car. Even if they are not 100% sorted and you have to do a bit of it after delivery their prices are decent if your are honest with yourself about the costs involved.
As to the last option being a real race car, what are the driver dimension limits for the vehicle in the picture? Not shopping, just curious if I were to win the lottery.
I used to race karts with a guy that ran Club Formula Continental in a Reynard chassis. He let me sit in the car once, without his molded seat insert. I couldn’t quite get my shoulders between the frame rails. The rest was tight but doable. For reference, I’m 6 feet tall, 230ish pounds, wear a size 50 jacket, built like someone who lifts weights and likes pizza.
That's not what I wanted to hear. For me weight is not an issue, but legroom is. Articles like these are not helping the frugal readership avoid temptation.
I just got a light sniff. The next time I went there I had my arm up inside it under the engine and played with the fuel pump wires so he could do a compression test without the thing starting. Turns out the starter solenoid wire was just loose
The "new" car that sits in the barn now was built as a Sports Renault in 1986. Still going strong, and absolutely ready for the SRF3 conversion.
At the last Nelson Ledges race there were five or six Alliances and Encores in attendance, as well! The SR front wheel is the original Alliance steel wheel. The SR rear wheel is that wheel with a section welded in.
What could go wrong with a French car built in AMC's antiquated Kenosha plant?
I suppose that made more sense than building a Fiat 127 is a Eastern Bloc Polish factory, but Malcolm Bricklin still sold a lot more Yugos than AMC sold Alliances/Encores.
Sports Renaults were very susceptible to over-rev damage ... valves hit pistons. We had an over-rev/fine schedule starting at 5500 RPM as I recall and did a leak down after every rental. Changing engines Saturday night was very common. +
Is there any value in the new "SCCA Club Spec" thing?
Your SRF enthusiasm really resonates with me, especially since my attempt to squeeze into an MX5 about 20 years ago was not entirely successful and I cringe at Mustang repair costs. But the idea of one vehicle that could be used for all events, including trackdays (IIRC prototype style cars are generally unwelcome at trackdays?) and RallyCross, appeals to me.
I’ve been intrigued by Club Spec as well as I look for a potential replacement for the Mini. What would be your choice between the Miata and the Mustang? I keep leaning towards something making V8 noises.
Having talked to a retired F1 driver about these hypercars, his experience is mixed to say the least. He bought a Valkyre, had repeated issues with it, to which the AM service centre responded with the canned "they all do that, sire". So he sold that, and bought an AMG One, that he managed to drive a whole 5 miles around his Monaco home before it laid down with a computer issue.
The AMG One is endlessly fascinating to me. It is ungodly expensive and technologically impressive, yet I have not really heard anything good about it at all! Everything I have heard is that it's relatively slow and incredibly prone to breaking in ways both novel and expensive.
It just did a Nürburgring record lap, beating a GT2 RS by 14 seconds. But the Porsche was faster in every corner... it seems the One makes up the speed with DRS on the straights.
> the newly-revitalized Sports Renault race groups for people who want to turn better-than-Spec-Miata laps in a car they can buy for $6,000 and run on steel wheels.
This sounds right up my Lo206-racing Timex-wearing alley. How are they different (and so much cheaper) than the existing SRF? I can’t imagine supporting the original Renault engines in current year.
Della Torre breaks it all down. I'm aware of at least one SR for sale for $7,000. While spare parts aren't omnipresent, the fact that they sold about 500 SRs and maybe 400 of them went to SRF2 means that there should be plenty of racing spares around.
I much prefer reading material like this to the drowning in political sorrows that chased away reader Alan recently. I've found myself commenting much less in the past month or two, although I've never considered unsubscribing.
On the topic of racing, I'm still not able to stomach the costs involved. I don't see a world where I ever have the money to race anything with four wheels. You've definitely convinced me not to drop $50k on an experiment so mission accomplished with this piece!
If you can stomach the personal risk, roadracing motorcycles is much less expensive. Many regions have a "modern vintage" class where the bikes need to be ten years old. Super cheap speed.
Jack's experience with a dingdong in NASA costing him a few grand in parts could cost a $100k hospital bill on a bike. Racing bikes with amateurs seems absolutely insane to me.
It is insane, in a fantastic way. The Colorado club (MRA) is good, and actually has a great safety record. You still want good medical insurance, for sure.
It's also a young man's game. Based on what happened the last time I crashed a bike at 30mph, I don't think I would be able to tolerate a 130mph incident.
You can get killed or hurt in a kart pretty easily -- but the vast majority of kart spins/crashes are harmless. On the bike, EVERY incident involves hitting the ground.
The hidden benefit of the UK's National Health Service. One could race bikes without thinking of the direct cost of injury. "Racing bikes with amateurs" wasn't so bad, because everyone knew that any crash was going to hurt; it engendered a certain respect for the risks, which seems a contrast with car racers.
we have people dying in hospital hallways in some places
massive overrun and abuse of the system in large part from "new canadians" who call ambulances for stubbed toes and go to the hospital for minor cuts and scrapes
we also have a problem with overbooked family doctors leaving so thats a problem too
the lord has seen fit to bless both my family and myself with good health so at least i have that
I evangelize karts elsewhere in this thread so allow me to do it again!
If you have an outdoor kart track near you look into Lo206 (or similar 4-stroke karting.)
A brand new race-ready kart is $5K. Our tires are $250 a set and can last a season. I use maybe a gallon of gas in a race day. Engine rebuilds/replacements are like $1K every two years.
We go slow and sound like lawnmowers, but you’re wheel-to-wheel in a purpose-built race vehicle. Drafting is very important so racing is close and exciting but the speeds are lower so the danger is lower.
Many clubs and tracks have arrive and drive offerings for very reasonable prices. This is what I do since I don’t have space to own my own kart yet. I would not be racing if not for Lo206. I am very thankful it exists.
" What follows is my public and expressed opinion on the matter, which is worth what you’re paying to read it." ~ actually Jack as a seasoned driver your thoughts & comments are, IMO heavily weighted to the positive .
I hate to sound so flip about death but : 'that's racing !' . I don't race specifically because I've crashed and am now crippled and etc., etc. so I prefer to drive / ride my slow vehicles quickly, this is _very_ different from actually going fast .
You make these "Rush" cars sound like glorified go carts .
In the end this entire thing is another Rich folks thing, if I had $45K to spend I'd be in hog heaven .
In regard to the relative rarity of the Suzuki GSX-S mill, per my understanding it's just one of those times where the supersport variant (GSX-R) was "retuned" with milder cams/etc. Presumably in this automotive application having the "meat" of the power available at lower RPM makes sense. But it also makes me wonder, if it's running a motorcycle engine, how swappable it might be. Would a Bandit 1250 motor of the roughly similar era bolt up, or a Hayabusa mill? In a pinch, you could take a GSXR motor and rebuild to GSX-S specs by swapping the old cams, etc in.
At some point, after Rush Auto Works goes out of business, the remaining racers will have to come up with a "legal engine cookbook". Maybe they'll just go full GSX-R!
here at the Speedrome the "Legends" cars swapped from the old FJ1200 based mills to I think(?) 3cyl liquid cooled FJ09 motors. There was quite a knowledge base and cottage industry that had gotten built up around tuning those old FJ1200 motors. A double edged sword: plenty of cheap restorable FJ1200s got cut up as engine donors, but on the flip side a guy with an FJ1200 could send it off for for a big bore build and end up with a 160-200hp fire breather to spruce up his old bike.
Yeah, the Legends and the Thunder Roadsters were both 1250cc FJ engines. The TRs are now on Hayabusa and the Legends have a $5,700 MT09 package available, which is really nice.
Are Thunder Roadsters a decent option here or is it yet another case of “just do SRF or SMX5”? Seems like they would be faster than a spec MX5 at least
Here in the Midwest at least, the Thunder Roadster group leader made the move to Rush SR and took a half dozen drivers with him. I liked TR a lot more when the cars cost $10k, not the $35k they fetch now.
In response to the NASA-bashing, for anyone looking for the other side of the story:
Full disclosure: I've never run with SCCA. I'm a current NASA-licensed racer, and I've also run with WRL and various low-buck enduro series.
Jack's point about NASA not being a place to race prototypes seems fair. The disparity of NASA's "open" (all makes) Super Touring classes is pretty wide. The only Radical I've ever seen run in my NASA region was some guy who was the sole Super Touring Unlimited entrant, who basically had a track day through spec class traffic, then celebrated his overall win waving the Brazilian flag on his cool-down lap...
However, NASA is a GREAT place for racing Miatas, E30's, E36's, Mustangs, Camaros, and Corvettes... you know, the cars that most normal people can afford.
There's a defined pathway through NASA's HPDE program to go from track day novice to racing your favorite make wheel-to-wheel with other fans of your favorite make... The spec format means very, very close racing, with other very skilled racers. It's easy to look good when your car is really doing the work... it's much, much harder to look good when all the drivers are in the same car. My Spec Iron class would often qualify P3-P8 within a second of each other... I qualified P2 once in a field of about 10 Spec Iron Mustangs, and that remains one of my most cherished racing accomplishments, even more than TT and enduro wins...
Jack talked about a Spec Iron Mustang taking out his nose piece at considerable expense... usually when I got tagged by another SI buddy, we'd find each other in the paddock after the race to high-five and watch each other's video. Sometimes there might be a mark on the bumper... oh well. Used Mustang bumpers were around $100.
I'm sure it's a real thrill to drive a prototype, and even more thrilling to compete in one. That's not going to be feasible for most people... As the saying goes, no racing is cheap. But if you can afford the safety equipment for yourself and your car, you can go racing with NASA...
"GREAT place for racing Miatas"
colour me interested
i imagine these are not street legal track rats if theyre running wheel to wheel
Correct. All NASA race cars must pass an annual tech inspection that verifies safety equipment is up to date... full roll cage, current seat/harnesses/nets, fire system, kill switch. The class director will also verify class-specific modifications...
Pinning this comment for visibility and because I think it makes a great case for NASA.
I'll do a NASA-centric article in the near future, but for the purposes of this discussion, I think the primary issue is: It would take a foolhardy person, or a very rich person, or someone who hasn't had a lot of experience watching NASA deal with their spec classes, to buy a new $45,000 car for the purpose of racing it with NASA.
I would bet every motorcycle I own plus half my watches on there being an SRF class in SCCA for some considerable time after NASA closes the book on the Rush SR guest class.
NASA had the most handsome flag waver back in 2006 at MidOhio for the first Nationals. I was moving cross country to Chicago from CT and traded a couple nights’ lodging for working the track for two days from a guy I “knew” on Corner-Carvers. Highlight was being on the platform on the back straight and having a Spec FFR lose his steering wheel literally right under me and hit the wall. IIRC he earned a helicopter ride for his troubles. I went back the next year to help again, and then I think they moved it out west and that was the end of my flagging career.
Ah yes, the same wall that multiple people hit in the 2007 National Championships, and again in the 2008 National Championships!
It doesn't seem to me that Rush is staking any long term claim with NASA. As with almost every NASA class, it's going to vary region by region.
Right now they seem to have made their home with Gridlife, but again, we'll see how long that lasts. Maybe they'll fall in with SCCA eventually.
Which is all totally fine -- unless you just did a HELOC or sold everything you own to go racing in a Rush. There are quite a few non-racers out there who are thinking about selling their street cars to buy a Rush, and so on. That's risky IMO.
I prefer racing in NASA regions with enough racers to have split Lightning and Thunder groups. That said, they both have their issues.
Lightning is much more similarly paced across the board. HOWEVER, the Spec Miata and Spec E30 types tend to be pretty "full send" and crashy, which has it's own issues.
Thunder has huge pace discrepancy. I've been on track with a real deal IMSA LMP2 car while in an ST4 E90. I don't really love that, personally.
I'm of the mindset that prototypes shouldn't be on the track with sports cars, that is probably something that SCCA gets right, but I have never raced with SCCA either.
What I tell every NASA racer who hasn't run with SCCA: Go try it, and expect to be amazed by:
* Lower entry fees, better refund policies, free annual tech inspection
* A clear and documented process for resolving disputes on and off track, complete with appeals and the availability of external auditors. This also applies to tech inspection.
* NOT HAVING YOUR "SERIES LEADER" RACING AGAINST YOU AND DOING COMPLIANCE!!!!!!
* Not having a "group leader" who is too busy working on his car to actually watch the race he's supposed to be managing
* No bullshit dyno classes that are invariably won via multi-map ECUs.
...and the most important of all:
No, repeat, Zero, HPDE drivers at the event. That means that the days are MUCH shorter, and for most racers really only require your presence at the track for 5 or 6 hours total. There's plenty of parking. You don't have Corvettes with custom vinyl number plates ripping through the paddock at 40mph past children and fuel jugs. Instead of having to kill time while 4 classes of HPDE and a time trial class run, you can actually watch 5 or 6 other interesting races.
It's been a decade since I thought it was worth racing NASA anywhere but Mid-Ohio. I'd rather pull for an SCCA race than drive next door and race NASA at Mid-O.
The NASA Bashing makes you and your written article irrelevant and biased. Not to laugh but you should have done some fact checking. BTW how many life flights out of the run offs the last 2 years. Keep bashing and carting cars and drivers out by AMR. Meanwhile, the rest of us will keep seeing right thru you and your very weak attempt to wrap your disdain for the rush car in your hate for NASA. BTW, Bless those crippled and injured by the absolute take anyone at any level in any SCCA event and then blame the drivers when the inevitable happens. You’re right you guys have it figured out.
NASA sucks and everybody knows it. I have a NASA national championship podium, I'm not guessing at what sucks about it.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather run NASA than Gridlife or PCA Club. :)
lol! How many lost events and classes this year in SCCA? The new owner of the SCCA clearly does not see things the old school way. Countless lost equipment and cars. Severe injuries. Numerous life flights. Mismanaged events that are staggering to drivers. Fights among your own volunteers and staff. Events where only a handful show up at all. Man wake up the only joke in racing right now is the SCCA and those that defend them like you!
I'll say this, and then I'll leave you be in peace -- SCCA is stronger in the Midwest than NASA is, that's where I race, that's what is primarily important to me.
The SCCA has no "owner", it a nonprofit held in trust by the members.
I was an SCCA CSR for about 20 years from 1991. During that time we handled all of the SCCA Spec classes: SR, SRF, Shelby Can Am, Panoz GT, and Formula Enterprises (FE). The ones that remain are SRF and FE. SRF offers the best competition, the best track support, the best reliability, continuing technical evolution, and compliance monitoring which is unsurpassed by any racing class. At any SCCA event you can count on a knowledgeable CSR to be on site with advice and parts. It takes a "big one" for a Saturday incident to keep you off of the track for Sunday. The FE does not offer the level of participation or support of the SRF but in my opinion, is still the most sensible open wheel option for SCCA. I've owned (3) Radical SR3's and they are superb race cars, and the BUSA versions are reliable and offer great racing or track day fun. Any reasonably competent mechanic or owner can prep and maintain these cars. I've been involved with Vintage Racing since the '90's and I'll post a follow up on how that option should be a consideration.
I for one would love a full guest post from you elaborating on these ideas and experiences!
That makes two of us.
Pinned for insight. thank you!!!
I drove my first vintage race at Road America in 1984 at the predecessor of the current WeatherTech vintage event which was the Chicago Historic Races. It was founded by Chicago restauranteur and Ferrari guy, Joe Marchetti. One of the treats associated with that event was the dinner hosted by Joe's Como Inn (Joe knew his Italian food). I qualified 3rd out of a big field of fifties and sixties sports cars and ahead of Joe's 250 SWB. I pulled off in turn 5 with fuel pick up problems ... ie ... it quit. I'd been on the outside of the fence for years watching F5000, Can Am, Trans Am and the June Sprints and I was racing (sort of) on that famous track in my 250GT.
A few years later, I became the SOWDIV CSR, primarily to write off my vintage racing and all the stuff needed to go racing. My passion was still old racing cars and over the years our shop ran F1, Can Am, F5000, F/Atl, F/Jr, lots of FF's and a few various sports racers. Most of my customers came for the SRF guys, and few FE guys who ran out of the shop. At one time we probably ran 10 FF's, all of which were the pre-'73 cigar bodied cars. Now days, with some groups, you can run a FF up to a current SCCA car. Back then, the cost was $16k to $25K. Guess what, same price today. A few guys wanted to go faster and we ended up running a bunch of F/Atlantics. They cost was $50K to $75K and they cost the same or less today. Here's the deal about racing vintage: first, with many clubs, if there's contact, you are done for the weekend and if it happens again, you can be out for the season. I can't tell you how many late nights at an SCCA race was spent putting an SRF back together after some bone head move on the track ... usually caused by the other bone head. FYI, crashes on any race car are expensive so any way to minimize that, maximizes the fun. No one wants to have their shit torn up and in vintage, that's much less likely to happen than in SCCA. Plus, in vintage, there are lots of very cool cars and in some cases historically important. Second, If you want to be out there learning or driving well within yourself, or driving something that's beyond your skill level to get close to 10-10's, that's fine too. Having said that, it does not mean that there aren't serious drivers and some great wheel to wheel competition ... either is fine. The full fender alternative in the real race car category are the sports racers. A nice S2000 will run a bit more than an FF, maybe $20K to $30K. A 2L sports racer was over $200K a few years ago but are $125K to $175K these days. If you can write the check, you can try anything out that you want to. You might look like a bozo being passed by a Radical in your McLaren Can Am, but you can do the Walter Mitty thing if you want to (also a great vintage event at R/Atl). I'm not a production car guy since I don't want to own a creeper, but a huge number of ways to go there as well. Vintage is a big tent with large events and small, prestige events (Monterey), and local, crazy cool cars and FV's and FF's, and S2000's ... whatever you want to try. Vintage events are all over the country. Note that American Vintage Racing is not what you see at Goodwood ... the no contact thing is not going on at Goodwood.
I remember being at Road America in the early 90s for the Can Am historics, it was one of the coolest racing memories I have, seeing those beasts and in some case their original drivers. Watching the field come down the hill and going by was fantastic.
Hey Andy, the ground actually shook. We ran an ex-George Fuller Shadow DN4 a few years later.
The ground DID shake, you're so right. Very cool you were involved.
INACURACIES and mis-representations about the RUSH SR
Full disclosure: I am the California Rush Dealer and the oldest and largest RUSH dealer in the U.S.
My first issue with this article is that you took and posted a photo of an old published newspaper coroner’s headline to attract attention to your article. This was a horrific tragedy. A Racer and husband lost his life and this happened March of 2024. Why the article now? Although you claim not to have a dog in the hunt, it sure comes across as very negative, 1 sided and frankly very much ill informed. Let me clear up all the mis-conceptions and statements made in this article about the car.
1) The fatality: The horrific event that you are now bringing up 6 months later was not something that had anything to do with the driver being in a RUSH per se (other than the fact that it was an open cockpit car. It would have happened in ANY open cockpit car (such as the 1's you recommend like the SRF and Radical) I was there. I was the 1st non emergency responder on scene. I saw the video (frame by frame) I later took possession of the car, then out of respect for the family and at their wishes had it crushed...I never want to witness anything like that again and don't wish it on any of our fellow racers. It should be noted that there are plenty of videos out there that show debris intrusion even through windshields on sedans. It was an act of God and a horrible tragedy...no one's fault.
2) Rush's "response": Rush did not create the Trident bar system as a result of the incident. Prototype examples of the bars can be seen on cars in videos back as far as October 2023 (you can see 2 examples by watching the Grid Life Laguna Seca race Oct 2023. The release of the Trident bars was already scheduled. It should be noted that these bars are an option and for those that still wish to order a car with the standard dual front accessory bars, they can. Drivers with the Trident bars are not complaining about "significant visibility" issues. Owners of older cars can even retro-fit the new Trident bars on their cars at certified installation centers. Somewhat similar type bars are obviously on Indy and F1 cars.
3) Claiming that Spec racer Fords have gone 40 years without an incident and are somehow safer in this regard is purely luck and I'm glad there have been no fatalities like this. Again, debris can effect any open cockpit car – and even closed windshielded cars.
4) You made a claim that Rush seemed “unaware of safety requirements” outside of NASA and the car was designed to compete within NASA. 100% totally false. The Rush SR was not designed to any such “NASA Specification” nor have we ever intended to run the car with NASA exclusively. We are well aware of the NP01 and have ZERO affiliation with NASA when it comes to this regard. To imply that the car is somehow “less safe” or built to a lesser standard is also false. For what its worth, I have my only son driving a RUSH and have witnessed crashes that would have totaled other cars but did minor to only moderate damage to the RUSH with NO damage to the driver cockpit or main chassis. The RUSH is every bit as tough or tougher than the Radical you mentioned and includes significant side intrusion protection. The Trident bars have been over engineered to exceed 7x the rigidity strength requirements. The car also has frontal crush zones/boxes and significant side intrusion bars.
5) NASA and Grid Life: You mention concern about buying a car that only competes in NASA or Grid Life and the possibility of a long term place to race outside of NASA. RUSH is in the final stages of SCCA homologation and is only weeks, if not days away from the final approval paperwork. Both SCCA SFR and Cal Club would love to see us join them and that is close to finalization. No worries here as there will soon be more places to race a Rush than most competitive cars.
6) Reliability and availability of parts: So we took delivery of our car Dec 2021 and have raced it and offered demo drives in it for 3 straight years now. We probably have more time and miles on our car than any typical owner would put on their cars in over 6 years time. It has been extremely reliable and provided you perform routine maintenance and preventative maintenance as outlined in the owners manual, there are no issues with the Suzuki powerplant and transmission. With over 240 cars on track across the US, Canada and Mexico, there have been only a very small handful of powertrain failures of any kind – and those may or may not have been somewhat caused by owner neglect or ignorance. You question maintenance costs being low based on your observations at a NASA event and compare that to SRF? Not sure how you could ascertain that. I can tell you that over 3 years, we spend less money on our RUSH than my son and I spent on his Shifter Kart we ran in SCUSA S2. Again, proper maintenance and a good dealer educating their customers is likely the key here.
7) Long term viability: I do agree that in theory, any race car company can go out of business and potentially leave owners without a parts supply. Rush semi officially launched at Sema in 2019…we were present at that launch. They survived COVID, doubled manufacturing space, launched Regional and National racing series, developed a 2nd car, the RUSH SRX, and are at a pace to sell nearly 100 cars a year! No one can guarantee the future, but the company is solid.
8) You touted that folks maybe should buy a SRF and they have 974 SRFs sold. That’s a lot of cars out there for sure, but it took them 40 years to sell that many. We are close to selling chassis 300 in really just over 3 years and with the exposure and visibility, sales are accelerating.
Finally, I’m not going to address the comparisons of the cars you mentioned: Miatas, SRF, Radical, I love all racecars and there is no 1 size fits all when it comes to making a choice to have a bunch of fun at the track. Choose any of these cars, or any spec sedan, and you will have the time of your life for sure! I just wonder why such obvious disgust with the RUSH such that you took so much time to investigate (on the surface) than formulate such a negative opinion about the car, and publish an article (using the fatality as click bait basically). It’s kind of not cool brother. I welcome the opportunity to offer you and your readers, a more comprehensive look and drive of the car and evaluate the trackside support we provide our customers in California, and across the country.
Hi Jeff,
I've pinned your comment so people can read it. For the record -- I wrote this because I've had a dozen people or more come to me about the Rush. Having told all of them that they're better off in an SRF, I thought it would be reasonable and ethical to discuss it with my readers as well. I don't stand to benefit in any way. It's a free-to-read article and there are no ads here.
Thank you for your comprehensive comment. I have a few responses, which you're free to engage with or ignore as you see best.
You note:
"The fatality: The horrific event... would have happened in ANY open cockpit car (such as the 1's you recommend like the SRF and Radical) I was there" As I noted elsewhere, I'm neither a vehicle engineer nor an aero engineer. What I know is this: SRF hasn't had a fatality like that in 40 years of operation. If Radical has had a fatality like that, I'm not aware of it and neither are the Radical dealers with which I've spoken. So: why Rush, in the second year of operation? Maybe it's completely random. Maybe it's an aspect of how the car is designed. I'm not here to draw a conclusion.
"Rush did not create the Trident bar system as a result of the incident." I'll take your word for it -- I was informed about this during a conversation with Rush owners, who presumably aren't as close to the source as you are. As to visibility -- there sure is a lot of metal out there in front of the drivers.
"You made a claim that Rush seemed “unaware of safety requirements” outside of NASA and the car was designed to compete within NASA. 100% totally false." Not a claim -- simply repeating what an ApexSpeed reader reported after speaking directly with RAW about running the car outside NASA. His report was that RAW had no knowledge about safety standards elsewhere, nor (in his opinion) any desire to know about them.
"RUSH is in the final stages of SCCA homologation" For what class? Other than SRF, there's literally no sports-racer class in the SCCA that isn't ten seconds a lap faster, or more, most places.
"not sure how you could ascertain that. I can tell you that over 3 years, we spend less money on our RUSH than my son and I spent on his Shifter Kart we ran in SCUSA S2" Sir, I've seen Grand-Am teams spend less than winning SKUSA teams -- but I'll take your note on this.
"We are close to selling chassis 300 in really just over 3 years and with the exposure and visibility, sales are accelerating." Well, let's hope the company stays together and can support the cars in the long run. They're 38 years behind SCCA Enterprises in terms of proven durability.
"I just wonder why such obvious disgust with the RUSH such that you took so much time to investigate (on the surface) than formulate such a negative opinion about the car, and publish an article (using the fatality as click bait basically). It’s kind of not cool brother."
As I noted before, I'm just responding to reader questions and concerns. I have no personal interest in this, other than having made the decision to put my daughter in an SRF this year instead of a Rush.
As I told another commenter here, my primary "issue" with the Rush is that it is yet another tool with which the for-profit trackday pimps can use to get rich while continuing to damage the SCCA. I don't like the danger aspect to running a Rush in a NASA group -- and I've run a sports racer in mixed groups plenty of times, it's more a case of me not wanting novice drivers to be exposed to the danger. It may not be "cool" to discuss the Rush in the context of a driver fatality, but if I wanted to be "cool" I'd be racing Formula Atlantic. :)
I wish you and your compatriots all the luck in the world. I'd rather see your customers in the SRF3, helping to continue the existence of the one nationwide spec sports-racer class of any size, but who knows? Maybe RAW will sell a thousand of these things and they will get their own SCCA class -- or they'll combine with SRF3, which seems like the logical way to handle it. In the meantime, I'll continue to advise drivers to choose SRF over the Rush product, partially because the car is almost certain to be supported into the future and partially because club racing will always be morally superior to for-profit psuedo-pro racing franchises.
Fact check much?? So many inaccuracies it borders on defamation. JB’s article is the written form of everything that is wrong with the SCCA and why they alone are responsible for its downfall. I mean he almost sounds like he has forgotten the 3 life flights and countless destroyed cars from the run offs and the sprints all less than 6 months ago. Imagine knowing the current severity and massive issues within the SCCA and still writing this arrogant POS article. Here’s some usable advice to the author… don’t worry about the spec in the eyes of others while there is a log in yours!
answered pretty much everything i wanted to know or ask about these weird looking things
"This Formula Continental sold for $16,000 on Bring-A-Trailer."
maybe i dont need to go to university after all
real race cars require zero explanation as to what they are
Thoughts on SM for completeness? It's obviously cheaper than smx5 and will have big fields literally everywhere. Advantage of both is you can also run them in the various cheap Enduro series. I'd love a full post series on "so you want to go wheel to wheel racing". This post is most of the way to one of them. I'm a ways from needing it because I've only done a few hpdes in rented SMish miatas on street tires. I'm thinking about picking up an NC miata to use for street driving and de and maybe smxing it down the road.
" I've only done a few hpdes in rented SMish miatas on street tires"
how did that go for you because ive been interested in just that sort of thing for a little while
It's an absolute blast. Not sure where you're located, but the Friday track days at Palmer in MA are great. https://www.palmermotorsportspark.com/experiences.aspx?ID=div1. $1095 for a day of 4 30 minute sessions on track with an instructor in a miata, all inclusive. (other than damage). If you're willing to spend in that ballpark on a day of fun, it's totally worth it, imo. If you buy your own car, your per day cost will be a lot lower, but if you can only do 1 or a few days a year, renting is cheaper, and you can't beat the convenience of just showing up and driving.
now that looks very appealing
probably a great way to come to grips with the handling of a car very similar to my own seeing as theres instruction provided
Yeah, the instructors I've had were pretty good. The first time he mostly focused on learning the line around the track, talking me through it as we went. Later on the first day, I started to have the basics of getting around the track memorized, freeing him up to coach me toward going faster. This past year the track came back quick (helped by the fact that there's an Asetto Corsa mod of the track now and I ran some simulated laps ahead of time. This allowed this times instructor to focus on correcting stuff. My biggest issues are being too active with the steering, and diving to the apex instead of bending it in carrying more speed. Simracing definitely shortens the learning curve a lot, I was quicker than most of the novice group. Getting a point by from a 911 in a miata is immensely satisfying.
"Getting a point by from a 911 in a miata is immensely satisfying"
i can only imagine
sim racing does have its benefits ive noticed
I came here to ask this question, so for all my forum expats 2nded. I've kicked the can down the road on road racing long enough and at this point in my life if I'm going to do it I want to start with a plan.
I'll do something ASAP.
I deliberately left SM off my list for a few reasons, including:
0. The newest eligible car is, literally, a vintage car by most measures. Most of the SMs out there have either celebrated their 25th birthday or are about to. Any donor car you find is going to be old as well, with all that entails.
1. The price of being truly competitive is more than most people want to pay. The price of NOT being competitive is getting bumped out of the way by arrogant wannabe Sennas with $15k engines.
2. I think larger drivers often put themselves at risk in these cars, particularly with regard to door bars and seat positioning.
3. There are very few parts, and very few donor cars, and NO bargains, left.
It should also be said that SM is not in the same speed range as SMX5, Global, Rush, SRF, or any of the other classes discussed. They REALLY ARE slow cars.
In 2005, you were probably an idiot NOT to consider Spec Miata. In 2025, I think there are better options.
Everything you said here also applies to Spec E30 and Spec3 racing.
I drove a Spec E30 last year, just filling in for a sick driver in an enduro -- those are OLD cars now, my God, most of them will be 40 years old pretty soon. Still a lot of fun to drive, albeit because they have terrible grip :)
If you like old BMW's might I suggest looking into SpecE46. Plenty of donor E46 330's available, and the car can be driven in BWMCCA, NASA or with small modifications, SCCA T3. Running costs are pretty low, cars are very solid, handle very well and are fun to drive. Only downside is good used race cars can sell for $30 - 50k, but are way safer than a Rush. Definitely faster and more modern than a SM, Spec E30 or Spec3. Lots of parts still available. Usually classed in NASA in Lightning (here in the NE) so you don't need to spend the entire race dodging Vipers and Corvettes . Added benefit: take it to DE's and pass 911's and Caymans at tracks like Lime Rock and Palmer ;)
Unless you're a 25 yo Asian kid who likes changing wheels and brake pads more than driving.
In decent hands E46s with a cage and good tires are quick.
Speaking as one of the local Miata fans, a thumbnail breakdown of the various series from SM to Cup would be interesting.
Not sure which enduro series you’re looking at but I can give you a pretty thorough list of pros and cons regarding Champcar enduros and why I haven’t missed them since I started racing with SCCA.
If you’re in MA/New England (assuming from your Palmer comment below) you should know the New Hampshire Kart Association (NHKA) is a great option to start if you’re interested/open to karting for your wheel-to-wheel fix.
Very friendly and supportive club environment, multiple teams providing tent support and affordable arrive & drive options, good field sizes with over 100 drivers at each race day. I’ve never had a field smaller than 15.
I actually live in NH. I've been meaning to come out to an NHKA event to check it out. Which class do you run? What's a ballpark cost to arrive and drive?
I run Lo206, which is probably the most popular engine in the club at this point. Depending on who you rent from a full race day in 206 could cost $400-$600 for the kart plus the club fees of about $150/race. I’m not sure what 2-stroke costs per day.
I rent from Don at DRT Racing. https://www.drracingkartnorthamerica.com/
The last race of the season is this Saturday, though I sadly will not make it.
That's pretty doable. How did you get started? Do they have like a noob practice day or something?
I didn’t have any wheel-to-wheel experience before starting. Just autocross, simracing, indoor karting leagues, and one (1) HPDE.
For the first couple of races in the season they have a “safety course” in the morning for newbies where you will run with just other newbies in open practice.
They’ll watch to see that you can control your kart, throw flags to make sure you see and respond to them, and if confident in your abilities will permit you to move into the race in the afternoon.
Email Don and let him know you want to arrive and drive. He makes it very easy, though you do need your own gear.
You need to watch the NHKA’s website in the winter/spring for when club membership signups and safety course registrations open.
Lo206 is great!
might sell my nc miata 2.5 swap soon. where you located?
New Hampshire. I have family in PA, so I regularly pass through MA/NY/CT/NJ.
O alright. Im kind of far then in Indiana.
Well this car talk timing is funny, I was just considering calling the race shop I fire sold my mustang to. But also did anyone ever get any more info on that florida shop that does ND Miata V8 swaps? That looks like a pretty sweet setup if it’s legit…
I don't see why it wouldn't be legit. The fellow appears to have given it a LOT of thought. And the Flyin Miata car was brilliant.
For sure, but it’s one thing to do it with one car but another to do it to many customer cars on a timetable
I looked into what it would take to V8 swap my Miata. Promptly went out and bought a Corvette.
Which is THE better and most logical response. Signed... a long suffering v8 swapper.
Do you still have your ‘84? The V8 should’ve been in there already! 😂😂
Or did you LS-or-something-swap it?
I've never talked to or read about someone who actually owned a V8 Roaster or FlyinMiata car to know if their packages are fully baked or if they have the typical swap challenges as the owner puts miles on the car. Even if they are not 100% sorted and you have to do a bit of it after delivery their prices are decent if your are honest with yourself about the costs involved.
As to the last option being a real race car, what are the driver dimension limits for the vehicle in the picture? Not shopping, just curious if I were to win the lottery.
I used to race karts with a guy that ran Club Formula Continental in a Reynard chassis. He let me sit in the car once, without his molded seat insert. I couldn’t quite get my shoulders between the frame rails. The rest was tight but doable. For reference, I’m 6 feet tall, 230ish pounds, wear a size 50 jacket, built like someone who lifts weights and likes pizza.
although I appreciate the input, it doesn't let me dismiss the expensive hobby on the grounds of fitment.
I’m not good at dismissing expensive hobbies. Or helping others do so.
A six-footer who weighs 200 could fit.
Formula Enterprises cars will fit ME and people larger than I am.
I've also successfully raced a Formula Vee! Some of the Vees and Firsts out there are very simpatico for larger drivers.
That's not what I wanted to hear. For me weight is not an issue, but legroom is. Articles like these are not helping the frugal readership avoid temptation.
Well you should go sit in one, JUST TO SEE!
Just like the first taste is free?
I just got a light sniff. The next time I went there I had my arm up inside it under the engine and played with the fuel pump wires so he could do a compression test without the thing starting. Turns out the starter solenoid wire was just loose
The first time I went to ADT's place I spent most of our conversation sat in SRF #7. I fit very well!
"Better Option Zero: SRF and SRF3"
Somewhere, Roy Lunn is smiling.
The "new" car that sits in the barn now was built as a Sports Renault in 1986. Still going strong, and absolutely ready for the SRF3 conversion.
At the last Nelson Ledges race there were five or six Alliances and Encores in attendance, as well! The SR front wheel is the original Alliance steel wheel. The SR rear wheel is that wheel with a section welded in.
I came very close to buying an Alliance new. It was probably a wise decision that I didn't.
At the price you mentioned, I might getting a Sports Renault but the G forces would likely make me sick.
Neat cars, but they didn't seem to last a long time.
What could go wrong with a French car built in AMC's antiquated Kenosha plant?
I suppose that made more sense than building a Fiat 127 is a Eastern Bloc Polish factory, but Malcolm Bricklin still sold a lot more Yugos than AMC sold Alliances/Encores.
Imagine if AMC had sold 400,000 Alliances.
I'd be driving a Concord to work
Eagle SX/4 for me.
AMC did sell more Alliances and Encores than Malcolm Bricklin sold Yugos. AMC sold about as many Alliances in 1983 as Yugo sold from 1985-1992.
Sports Renaults were very susceptible to over-rev damage ... valves hit pistons. We had an over-rev/fine schedule starting at 5500 RPM as I recall and did a leak down after every rental. Changing engines Saturday night was very common. +
Makes sense. They're all owner-driven now so I suspect there's more care being taken with them.
And the heater cores tended to explode into the front passenger footwell!
Knew a couple people who dealt with that! Big bowl of “not good,” to paraphrase Peter DeLorenzo! Skin grafts ain’t fun!
Although by 1986, those weren’t half bad—had a buddy with a loaded 5-speed DL Sedan of that vintage, and it served him well, as I recall.
can you explain the point A to point B on average enthusiast to SRF/smx5 racer? i think it would be a benefit to many.
Yes sir, I'll do it as a separate article.
Is there any value in the new "SCCA Club Spec" thing?
Your SRF enthusiasm really resonates with me, especially since my attempt to squeeze into an MX5 about 20 years ago was not entirely successful and I cringe at Mustang repair costs. But the idea of one vehicle that could be used for all events, including trackdays (IIRC prototype style cars are generally unwelcome at trackdays?) and RallyCross, appeals to me.
I think it's great, I think they chose the right cars, and I really hope it succeeds.
Perhaps a "Club Spec" vs "Spec Racer" article would be of interest to many.
I’ve been intrigued by Club Spec as well as I look for a potential replacement for the Mini. What would be your choice between the Miata and the Mustang? I keep leaning towards something making V8 noises.
Barely and probably not related:
For those who want to go fast, but not really race (?), AND waste a bunch of money, there's this:
https://www.rodin-cars.com/models/fzero/
somebody saw the redbull x2010 car from gran turismo and tried to make it real
That's an absolutely insane amount of power for something so light.
That's faster and can generate more downforce (and the accompanying corner Gs) than a current F1 car.
Besides the ability to slap the roof of it and saying that "well, we've done it" what is this good for?
"It has to look like an accident or my family won't get the insurance money."
The venn of people who want it, who can afford it, and who can operate it safely: is an empty space.
Having talked to a retired F1 driver about these hypercars, his experience is mixed to say the least. He bought a Valkyre, had repeated issues with it, to which the AM service centre responded with the canned "they all do that, sire". So he sold that, and bought an AMG One, that he managed to drive a whole 5 miles around his Monaco home before it laid down with a computer issue.
The AMG One is endlessly fascinating to me. It is ungodly expensive and technologically impressive, yet I have not really heard anything good about it at all! Everything I have heard is that it's relatively slow and incredibly prone to breaking in ways both novel and expensive.
It just did a Nürburgring record lap, beating a GT2 RS by 14 seconds. But the Porsche was faster in every corner... it seems the One makes up the speed with DRS on the straights.
Jack, I would assume that you could operate it safely—but would you even desire it?
What is the use case when there’s no one to race against?
Oh I don't think I'm qualified to drive it. You'd want some LMP1 seat time first, at a minimum.
Interesting that it looks like an IndyCar or other open-wheel deal from the front, but it’s really a modern take on a Can-Am.
I could see how someone would need seat time next to a professional before they go wadding the thing up into an armco barrier!
> the newly-revitalized Sports Renault race groups for people who want to turn better-than-Spec-Miata laps in a car they can buy for $6,000 and run on steel wheels.
This sounds right up my Lo206-racing Timex-wearing alley. How are they different (and so much cheaper) than the existing SRF? I can’t imagine supporting the original Renault engines in current year.
Yeah, the newest Renault engine in the US is 35 years old. How many parts can possibly left to rebuild them after 35 years of racing?
https://imola.motorsportreg.com/sport-renault-americas-obscure-purpose-built-road-racer/
Della Torre breaks it all down. I'm aware of at least one SR for sale for $7,000. While spare parts aren't omnipresent, the fact that they sold about 500 SRs and maybe 400 of them went to SRF2 means that there should be plenty of racing spares around.
And I was hesitant to spend the few hundred bucks to go back to dynamic golds in my irons.
I don't feel poor, but I guess I am.
If it's any consolation, I turned in my last country-club membership in 2010. Can't do BOTH.
It isn't.
I much prefer reading material like this to the drowning in political sorrows that chased away reader Alan recently. I've found myself commenting much less in the past month or two, although I've never considered unsubscribing.
On the topic of racing, I'm still not able to stomach the costs involved. I don't see a world where I ever have the money to race anything with four wheels. You've definitely convinced me not to drop $50k on an experiment so mission accomplished with this piece!
If you can stomach the personal risk, roadracing motorcycles is much less expensive. Many regions have a "modern vintage" class where the bikes need to be ten years old. Super cheap speed.
Jack's experience with a dingdong in NASA costing him a few grand in parts could cost a $100k hospital bill on a bike. Racing bikes with amateurs seems absolutely insane to me.
It is insane, in a fantastic way. The Colorado club (MRA) is good, and actually has a great safety record. You still want good medical insurance, for sure.
It's also a young man's game. Based on what happened the last time I crashed a bike at 30mph, I don't think I would be able to tolerate a 130mph incident.
True. I'll be 53 this month, and my racing days are through. Autocross and track days are about it.
How does crashing karts compare? I don't know how well they are protected but some of the ones I have seen it looks like they are hanging out there.
You can get killed or hurt in a kart pretty easily -- but the vast majority of kart spins/crashes are harmless. On the bike, EVERY incident involves hitting the ground.
The hidden benefit of the UK's National Health Service. One could race bikes without thinking of the direct cost of injury. "Racing bikes with amateurs" wasn't so bad, because everyone knew that any crash was going to hurt; it engendered a certain respect for the risks, which seems a contrast with car racers.
ive thought of the same thing over here but the problem with canadian healthcare is simply getting in
its free if you can survive long enough to get treatment
What’s the ER situation up there?
we have people dying in hospital hallways in some places
massive overrun and abuse of the system in large part from "new canadians" who call ambulances for stubbed toes and go to the hospital for minor cuts and scrapes
we also have a problem with overbooked family doctors leaving so thats a problem too
the lord has seen fit to bless both my family and myself with good health so at least i have that
Similar story here, these days…
I'm not opposed to it, but you still need a truck or trailer, a suitable bike, all the gear. Super cheap is still no joke.
I evangelize karts elsewhere in this thread so allow me to do it again!
If you have an outdoor kart track near you look into Lo206 (or similar 4-stroke karting.)
A brand new race-ready kart is $5K. Our tires are $250 a set and can last a season. I use maybe a gallon of gas in a race day. Engine rebuilds/replacements are like $1K every two years.
We go slow and sound like lawnmowers, but you’re wheel-to-wheel in a purpose-built race vehicle. Drafting is very important so racing is close and exciting but the speeds are lower so the danger is lower.
Many clubs and tracks have arrive and drive offerings for very reasonable prices. This is what I do since I don’t have space to own my own kart yet. I would not be racing if not for Lo206. I am very thankful it exists.
" What follows is my public and expressed opinion on the matter, which is worth what you’re paying to read it." ~ actually Jack as a seasoned driver your thoughts & comments are, IMO heavily weighted to the positive .
I hate to sound so flip about death but : 'that's racing !' . I don't race specifically because I've crashed and am now crippled and etc., etc. so I prefer to drive / ride my slow vehicles quickly, this is _very_ different from actually going fast .
You make these "Rush" cars sound like glorified go carts .
In the end this entire thing is another Rich folks thing, if I had $45K to spend I'd be in hog heaven .
-Nate
(edited for terrible spelling)
In regard to the relative rarity of the Suzuki GSX-S mill, per my understanding it's just one of those times where the supersport variant (GSX-R) was "retuned" with milder cams/etc. Presumably in this automotive application having the "meat" of the power available at lower RPM makes sense. But it also makes me wonder, if it's running a motorcycle engine, how swappable it might be. Would a Bandit 1250 motor of the roughly similar era bolt up, or a Hayabusa mill? In a pinch, you could take a GSXR motor and rebuild to GSX-S specs by swapping the old cams, etc in.
At some point, after Rush Auto Works goes out of business, the remaining racers will have to come up with a "legal engine cookbook". Maybe they'll just go full GSX-R!
here at the Speedrome the "Legends" cars swapped from the old FJ1200 based mills to I think(?) 3cyl liquid cooled FJ09 motors. There was quite a knowledge base and cottage industry that had gotten built up around tuning those old FJ1200 motors. A double edged sword: plenty of cheap restorable FJ1200s got cut up as engine donors, but on the flip side a guy with an FJ1200 could send it off for for a big bore build and end up with a 160-200hp fire breather to spruce up his old bike.
Yeah, the Legends and the Thunder Roadsters were both 1250cc FJ engines. The TRs are now on Hayabusa and the Legends have a $5,700 MT09 package available, which is really nice.
Are Thunder Roadsters a decent option here or is it yet another case of “just do SRF or SMX5”? Seems like they would be faster than a spec MX5 at least
Here in the Midwest at least, the Thunder Roadster group leader made the move to Rush SR and took a half dozen drivers with him. I liked TR a lot more when the cars cost $10k, not the $35k they fetch now.
You should ask him why, and how it's going.