It's 8:02 on Thursday night, and "Loopy" has received north of $900 in contributions from ACF readers. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. There were so many of you who pitched it that it will take me through the weekend to contact and thank everyone individually -- but you've made a real difference for an animal who deserves to live with dignity for as long as she can make it.
Jack, ACFers, I'm blown away. I'm the reader who's fostering Loopy (mostly my lovely bride). Thank you to everyone for your generosity. I'm speechless.
We love being able to provide some comfort for these old cats. We foster through an organization that specializes in elderly cats. Loopy is our fifth. Out of those, 4 were tagged for euthanasia in the Philadelphia shelter system.
Thanks again gents. Seriously. As always this group goes above and beyond.
I think the odds are good, simply because the auto industry is so important to the macro economy. The auto manufacturers won’t like it publicly, but privately they will.
I was reminded the other day that tailpipe emissions in the 1990s were already cleaner than the ambient air in most urban areas. Meaning all emissions regulations have been absolute BS since then.
The key with fixing the EPA will be killing the CARB exemption and then firing as many EPA regulators as possible. No regulators, no further regulations. Then kill all existing regulations not passed by Congress.
if anything thats even more of a reason not to choose an ev. even if all the parts you mentioned did fail and needed to be replaced it would be far easier for someone in the income bracket who is looking at a 10 or 15 thousand dollar car to spread that 13k repair cost over many smaller "installments" of replacing individual components when they fail rather than 13k all at once for a battery.
No third owner of a Model 3 (which will have a trade in value under $10k at that point in the 2030s) will spend even $5k on it. It will become a junkyard car. People making $50k a year or less don't have that kind of money for car repairs.
If/when we get to this timeframe, it might be cost-prohibitive (both for the repair shops and OEMs) to support this.
I suspect we'll see them sent overseas where there will be looser regulations for repair shops, a more robust aftermarket SW ecosystem, and lower (non-US-level) customer expectations. You already see this with "totaled" Teslas, where many re-emerge in places like Turkey and SE Asia.
Most EVs live or die by software. I'd like to see what a 15yo Tesla is like a few years (or even months) after its last SW update.
There was an update last summer that borked the wireless connection and the wipers on my friend's Y. For a month, he basically drove around with a Nav map that couldn't update and wipers that randomly turned on a couple times per hour.
That said, a generation from now, there'll still be father and son drag races and hooning with their barnyard EVs. But the guys will be more like shade tree electrical engineers vs shade tree mechanical engineers.
Actually thanks to hefty depreciation on EVs, a Chevy Bolt is easily found for under $15,000 … and most have batteries that were replaced not long ago. So I guess Chevy strikes again.
A Cadillac ELR with <60,000 miles is about $16K. It has all the advantages of the Volt, Cadillac luxury, and I think it's the best looking Caddy made in the last 10 years.
I have come to the conclusion that BOP really is motorsport DEI, and that stage-managed sports car racing is just not doing it for me at this point. I was nauseated to see repeat cheater - his own team cheated in Indycar, which he also owns … that’s a Trump level Kleptocrat move - Roger Penske win at Daytona.
I offered this “take” to Butterfinger BB over at Jalopnik, so maybe he will run with it!
BOP has always annoyed me. The basic premise makes sense, "lets put a bunch of wildly disparate cars on the track and at least make it so they are close to the same speed", but its a system that is always going to be gamed. Either by cheating or by the liberal application of cash in the correct palms.
It seems to me that Balance of Performance is the conceptual opposite to the Index of Performance trophy given at Le Mans to the car with the best performance relative to engine displacement.
That being said, there are lots of sports that involve handicapping of some kind, including ballast on race cars and race horses. I suppose that one could say that weight classes in combat sports are a form of balancing performance. A middleweight fighting a heavyweight may both be fighting by the same rules, but that doesn't make it a fair fight.
It's a variant of the "strong men make good times" trope... everybody wants to get back to the "glory days" of sportscar racing without perhaps considering that the utterly lopsided domination and massive imbalance that characterized those eras essentially killed the fanbase.
The right way to do it is via a fixed set of technical regulations for displacement, size, and sophistication, with the understanding that this will lead to races in which cars win by 3 laps and others just quit.
I have nothing but disdain for the current LMP2-Hybrid class aka GTP but it DOES seem to put cars on the grid.
Let's hope BB takes your thoughts and runs with them. He's one of the most knowledgeable and adept racing journalists out there!
Well, our Tortie is a rescue (like all our cats), and even after 2 years is still a little skittish. She'll sit with us, but we can't pick her up or handle her much
We've had good luck with black cats. Supposedly they are less adoptable but ours have all been great
what is the american version of the Beetle, the peoples car, who will it come from, and when will it show up? if i had to place a wager, i'd say its decidedly NOT from an american make (which is unfortunate). ironically, it may also come from VW - the new jetta is the first one i can remember where the the base price of a new gen actually went DOWN, not up. the biggest issue, i think, is that you need to make something that stands on its own and doesnt have any luxury pretension or tries to be something its not. the G shock of cars, if you will.
Point taken but adjusted for inflation a 1950 beetle was actually less expensive than a 1908 model T. It's still actually OVER the range jack gave, which means we need something even cheaper.
That's why this is a difficult question. Americans won't accept (nor should they!) hordes of third world scooters. Minus rootless laptop class city hoppers, most Americans drive significant distances with people or things on a daily basis.
There should be a "kei car" class of vehicles available to Americans with bare bones saftey features and no tech. It would still be safer than a scooter
The original Honda Fit was a brilliant car, and it’s an excellent city car with excellent packaging, but I sold mine because I thought it was too small for the craziness that exists on Chicago highways. I wanted more metal around me.
The Honda fit WAS a brilliant vehicle. It was also a modern and pretty safe little car. If you sold it today at $15k all in and put stickers on it warning you of the "dangers" of driving a car without modern saftey features like a box of cigarettes, you could probably sell a lot of them.
Also, don't take the kei car comment as literal- it would be different to match Americans and our roads, but something of that ilk.
Agree. Definitely in the minority when I say I thought they were nice looking and well thought out. They were what they were and would rock one in a heartbeat if my accord commuter wasn’t still running strong and heading towards 240k.
Third World Indians proved to prefer motorbikes and used Marutis to being seen in a brand new "cheapest car in the world" Tata Nano. Why would working class and poor Americans act any differently?
i think the mentality of third world indians is a poor metric to judge the preferences of the american driving public. having covered transport is essential to most americans travel, work, and status recognition. scooters are the realm of the american dalits, doordash drivers, people who have hulu with ads, etc. plus, most americans suffer through real winter. have fun with a motorbike.
That's like saying that the Beetle wasn't mass produced in 1938. During its production run, the Ford Model T's price fell to $290. Adjusted for inflation, that is $5,383.85 even after the last regime tried to end the dollar.
had no idea it got that cheap. im sure this is part of why they were hellbent for a while on tarnishing Ford's good name (posthumously, a century later)
"From the people who brought you the “V6” with eight holes in the block"
As the erstwhile (it has since been replaced with yet *another* SPA-platform XC90) owner of a 2015 LR4 with exactly that engine...I've been trying to get to the bottom of why they did that. So, FoMoCo built all three generations of the AJ-V8 at its Bridgend, Wales plant through 2020, when that plant shut down. After that, JLR bought up all the tooling and moved it to its internal shop in Wolverhampton, England. It is not, strictly speaking, a Ford engine, and it bears no relation to the Ford Mod family and the current 5.0 Coyote V8. Development even began before FoMoCo purchased Jaguar. Anyway, between, I suppose, 2008-2020, FoMoCo was manufacturing the engine under contract, having sold Jaguar and Land Rover.
I suspect JLR needed a really cheap V6 engine and wanted to go the common route of building a shortened V6 on a V8 architecture...only supplier FoMoCo probably *required* a substantial tooling investment to build a shorter block, so JLR figured out a way to use the same block as the V8 with shorter heads, two fewer cylinders, and balancing shafts to make it all work.
An interesting alternative might have been to borrow the Volvo SI6 inline-6 engine, which was *also* produced at the Bridgend plant and which was even used in the Volvo-derived Freelander 2/LR2...but that engine was designed for transverse applications and it may have been pretty expensive to modify it for longitude use, as in most of the JLR cars. It also wasn't particularly potent.
---
"I don’t particularly cherish the idea of everyone driving a battery-powered car but it seems obvious to me that something in the $10,000-$15,000 range is necessary to make that happen."
It's quite obvious that no one in power cares about affordable new-car transportation. Why waste your time making a $15,000 car and have to worry about selling 300,000 of them a year to break even on amortization costs...when you can instead make a $45,000 car that's a gussied-up version of something much cheaper, and rake in the profit?
On top of that--and I deal with these people *frequently*--there's a contingent of individuals that really should be looking for a cheap, reasonable car, and who should be in the market for a $15,000-$20,000 car, but who will turn their noses up at anything that isn't good-looking and will then stretch their budget to uncomfortable levels to get something they *do* like. "I ought to be looking at a new Outlander Sport, but I want a loaded Bronco Sport for twice the price, instead."
So, when I was working, briefly, as a DRE on contract to JLR I asked this exact question.
The answer is interesting: it reduces vehicle complexity massively. It mounts at the same point, all the wiring harnesses, coolant, refrigerant, etc lines all hook up to the EXACT same place on the front end, etc. This keeps things easy on the assembly line but also saves a veritable fuckload of ED&D cost
The unlocking is pretty simple, you've been able to do this for 20+ years on JLR products if you know how to edit the car configuration file.
And wouldn't always using a V8 save even more? Don't forget that they also had to supercharge the V6 so it could make the LR4 move. Does a 1-2 mpg gain on the highway help that much with CAFE fines? Why did they ever need a V6?
The other question I have is why JLR never developed an AWD package for the XJ and XF with the V8. When those cars first got the V6 and the ZF 8AT for MY2013, only the V6 could be equipped with AWD. They never bothered to make a V8 + AWD version, even though obviously the packaging and placement was exactly the same. However, there were V8 + AWD + 8AT versions of the F-Type and F-Pace, not to mention all of the longitude Range Rover products, so it was feasible.
It was probably for the same reason FCA didn't develop an AWD + HEMI package for the LX cars when they moved to the ZF 8AT in 2015. Development costs versus expected sales numbers. I believe the take rate for the AWD + HEMI, prior to that, was something like 6% on the cars that offered it, so they just didn't carry that scarcely-purchased option over with the 8AT. The Charger Police Intercepts with the AWD + HEMI powertrain retained the Mercedes-Benz 5AT, and lasted through 2020.
Yes its all about CAFE numbers. CAFE has resulted in all sorts of design distortions and general stupidity over the years. And remember the test cycle for the fuel economy numbers used for the CAFE calcs is completely unrealistic (and different from the cycle used for the EPA mpg numbers on the sticker), which has led to all sorts of games, lies, cheats, and bizarre engine programming. Just KILL CAFE NOW. Please.
a) thank you for using "erstwhile", it's a disappearing word and I'm not sure why
b) Especially in America, people are always going to have their pride. If I understand the history of it, a lot of middle-class people traded in beater Stovebolt Chevies on Beetles that were then turned around and sold to the people who SHOULD have been in the Beetles. I don't even know how to begin to address the societal aspects of it.
The Rub(TM) of the Chevette is that it was reliable, so the new Chevette needs also to be reliable. Right now, reliability is a dumb shell game makers play. GM played that game before the Chevette with the Vega. Those things were awful, which forced them to make a good car fit to woo consumers.
When I say awful, I mean "had to take the mounts loose and jack it up to change the spark plugs" awful. Or "alu block with iron sleeves would self immolate and warp all surfaces" awful. Or "mechanical fuel injection from Europe? AYFKM?" awful.
The Chevette had to be good because it was Chevy's "aw come on, gurl. You know I luh u." letter to the poors who were moving lots of units in all the other brands. They didn't make much per unit, but GMAC loved to amortize those things.
To truly capture the moment and the best qualities of the Chevette, GM, or whomever, will have to not mess around and they will have to build a good car intended to last 20 years or 400k miles, whichever comes first. That's a tall order with the current climate in automakers c-suites where squeezing the turnip happens at gunpoint.
I keep thinking about that Shelby con job where he appeared in the 90s and exclaimed "yee haw, I just found 100 paper titles in my attic. Time to make some Cobras and a suitcase of c-notes!" Why couldn't GM just get in the loophole business and make repop "kit car" Chevettes to side step the federalies? What if they showed up in a crate at your house, rather like a motorcycle from Amazon. No wheels on the car. You gotta charge the battery yourself. You have to fill the fluids. Etc. But you also get some sort of neato extra like a cool air freshener that makes the interior smell like an 80s GM car with that fuzzy seating surfaces stuff.
And what about a small gas turbine to power a gennie, so you could charge it anywhere?
I'm glad to hear about your weight gain. Part of staying on the long term path is straying every once in a while, which feels dumb and self-destructive, but it's science based "truth"
I'm doing sets of archer pushups before bed for some stupid reason. Don't listen to me.
Also, if you like Lorenzo's tale of brass balls, you might check out my fellow author Mona Lisa Foster @mona lisa's musings here. She's a Romanian immigrant and her family escaped the evil commies (no irony or sarc with that) back in the bad old days of walls and Soviet premiers with bird poop on their forehead. She has a good short book called "pretending to sleep" that's a fiction work about what it was like in Romania.
She's quite a hard right lady now, naturally. She's a great author and has stuff published all over, including Baen.
I'll listen to anyone who can do an archer pushup. My current goal is 62 normal pushups in 60 seconds, since I'm training with my son for the USAFA entrance test. Two nights ago I failed on the 59th one and actually injured my dick when I hit the ground... back at it again tonight, but I gotta roll to the side or something when it all goes wrong!
I heard Hegseth say he did 5 sets of 45 in the mornings or something like that a couple of days ago. I'm lucky to have strong wrists, because those archers are murder on the wristicles.
The USAFA competencies are a good guidepost. Way to support the kid continually and in healthy ways.
Those pushups look fun: the Ol' Thritis in my right wrist tells me those are a No Go.
Perhaps a PSA extolling the virtues of The Stranger is in Order: (Winter clouds scudding over gray water. Voice: "Mother died today") This could get weird
We've never talked about Mike Winnet, the guy who invented the word humblebrag, on here. He's an interesting character that would appeal to many ACFers
" Or "alu block with iron sleeves would self immolate and warp all surfaces""
Hang on, wasn't the Vega's initial novelty in that it was purely a aluminum block, no hard wearing liners or anything? It was supposed to save a lot of money on manufacturing cost. But famously went sideways and they had to put liners in anyways.
Thankfully my two cats each had the privilege to die in comfort surrounded by love; one in the vets office during the thick of Covid while I held his paw, the other curled on my pillow for one last night surrounded by her family. Hit me right in the feels, may my donation find Loopy well and close to the goal!
The earlier, Dacia-Logan-style cars were GREAT CARS! and I should have bought one new. However, they don't seem to hold up, and I don't know if that's because of the car or the owners.
I currently provide various services to seven felines, so the bucks were forked over. My Dad had an Orange chevette, stick ,when I was a kid. I carved my name with my nails into the trim and I remember how even a slight amount of sweat would glue me to the vinyl seat. We lived in Florida and my father didn’t like A/C, so I stayed wedged to that seat
Well, after bitching in public about it... I'd been down to 211-212 then popped up to 215 over the weekend. I took two days off weights because my left shoulder was feeling WAY loose... but this morning I was 210, so who knows how it all works? Not me.
Just fluctuations in water weight. I’m sure your diet and electrolyte intake is not consistent enough for daily numbers to be a reliable indicator.
Just one bout of chocolate chip pancakes would have you retaining a lot of extra water.
Also, make sure to supplement 5g of creatine a day. Excellent brain benefits as well. That and weightlifting are especially beneficial for people who have suffered TBIs.
I've taken so many shots to the kidneys (insert joke here, but it was largely cycling and sparring) that I'm kind of marginal in that regard... but I'm about to get another blood draw that should show me if I'm clear to supplement a bit.
Use a spreadsheet or app with some kind of moving average. Daily water fluctuations are all over the place. As long as the days weigh in is below the trendline and pulling it down, it's a win. I've used this old school web version off and on for like 20 years. https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/online/hdo.html
I have nothing but love and respect for the lowly Chevette. My first car was my Dad's 1979 Chevette, in the best possible spec: 4-speed manual, no a/c, 2-door hatchback, with cloth seats, beige on beige. My Dad bought it off the dealer lot brand-new, it was passed to me after he realized that there was no trade-in value against the '85 Tempo (5-speed, 2-door) that he replaced it with. The Chevette always started and was extremely tolerant of any shenanigans that I put it through. It was t-boned by a' 76 LTD in 1988, I transplanted the engine into a 1980 T-1000 body and ran it for 2 more years. I guess my opinion would be different if I had our neighbor's Chevette experience - a diesel with A/C. I wish I knew about the 2.8/3.4 conversion back in the day.
My first car was a 76 Chevette with the 1.4. It was a total piece of garbage but I have so many fond memories of that car that I'd own another in a heartbeat. I slept in it overnight to attend Dan's Bake Sale in Ft Collins when Rush Limbaugh came to town so I would have some decent parking. Wasn't that 1993 or so? When I sold it and acquired a Pontiac Phoenix with a 2.8 it seemed like moving from a Model T to an LS400.
Apparently, my parents got rid of their Opel GT for a new 1976 Chevette when I came along. Would any young family be caught dead today in something so small? Seems like a Highlander is the minimum size vehicle to haul a solitary kid anymore.
My uncle bought a new 1979 Chevette. It was a 4 speed with A/C that had to have worked once in its life. That became the family heirloom as it was passed to another uncle who passed it on to dad where it was neglected to death. I drove it some after turning 16 and remember being seared onto the maroon vinyl seats in the Oklahoma sun. The door panels were a series of charming shades of purple before dad fashioned new ones from wood paneling.
I know of a diesel Chevette that could likely be picked up for a song. I want it of course but the 1980s GM cheap interior smell coupled with rodent odors nauseates me enough to keep it a dream. It would be fun to see how much traffic I could obstruct trying to merge onto I-25 though.
With Uber/Lyft and a general lack of desire to drive on the part of younger people, I don't know how successful a car like the Chevette would be these days. I'm eternally grateful for cars like it though and the freedom they provided. It was also a catalyst for being able to fix cars and not be beholden to a "professional" mechanic.
What year Phoenix? I had an 81 hatchback with 4 and auto (had a messed up left knee at the time). When things weren’t falling apart and the brakes weren’t locking up it was great - hauled a lot of stuff, went thru all sorts of mountain snow without chains, bombed around on some crazy rocky roads. Finally dumped it for an Accord Lxi 5sp.
Mine was a 1980. I've had two of them, both hatchbacks. Oddly enough, my last one lives on in junkyard photos on Murilee Martin's webpage. The first one needed a new steering rack and that led to the first time I ever flung a tool in anger. The front pump sheared in the automatic trans and one of dad's buddies encouraged me to fix it instead of junking the car. I don't really remember the rear brake lockup but I do remember doing rear brakes and finding the emergency brake spring imbedded in one of the shoe linings. My biggest complaint was with the 2SE carburetor. The engineers should have been prosecuted for that hesitating, flooding, bogging piece of crap.
not just the safety ball, but the durability ball also. and they just took the fore-aft I4 and V6 engines and rotated them 90 degrees without moving the attached components making it a PITA to work on.
I also remember cursing that carb. And the oil filter position on the back of the transverse engine against the firewall. Grrrr. And the crappy engine mount that failed. And the cloth seats that disintegrated at 50,000 miles. And the crappy auto trans that died at 60,000 miles. And I seem to recall having to disassemble the dash several times.
Honest to God just yesterday on the drive to work I passed a 2-door Tempo heading the opposite direction. Spun my head much faster than any C8 ever will.
oddball survivors always get my attention faster, and for longer, than anything exotic. case in point: the nearly pristine first-gen Subaru Brat I saw in traffic earlier this week. the want was strong.
man, fuck BaT and auctions in general and the people willing to spend real money on something like a Brat only to place it at the center of a cars and coffee circle-jerk.
BaT is a decent platform that brings a national audience to cars that would never receive it otherwise. it serves as a clearinghouse for anything interesting to be sold at the highest price. does this inflate value to a "national high bid"? yes. does it incentivize people to spend the money to keep things like brats in tact and nice, knowing they can monetize it later? also yes. ultimately, its a net positive for classic and interesting cars, knowing there is a highly liquid secondary market with a fairly efficient pricing system.
Saw a nicely preserved Plymouth Reliant a couple years back in a parking. It wasn't large, but still could seat 6 and had room in the trunk. Either they were better at packaging or possibly less content to find space for
It's 8:02 on Thursday night, and "Loopy" has received north of $900 in contributions from ACF readers. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. There were so many of you who pitched it that it will take me through the weekend to contact and thank everyone individually -- but you've made a real difference for an animal who deserves to live with dignity for as long as she can make it.
God bless you all.
more money than the average OnlyFans model makes in a month. congrats loopy!
Loopy is better looking.
I was gonna make a hairy pussy joke but I'll let it lie.
I never let a hairy pussy lie.
*sob*
That's been the problem.
truly wonderful
Jack, ACFers, I'm blown away. I'm the reader who's fostering Loopy (mostly my lovely bride). Thank you to everyone for your generosity. I'm speechless.
We love being able to provide some comfort for these old cats. We foster through an organization that specializes in elderly cats. Loopy is our fifth. Out of those, 4 were tagged for euthanasia in the Philadelphia shelter system.
Thanks again gents. Seriously. As always this group goes above and beyond.
God bless, sir.
You have my donation. Neat idea.
I am oddly optimistic at what nonsense this administration has shown to be willing and capable to dismantle.
/Waiting with baited breath for Trump's "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!" moment.
Does this mean we force all the evs to move to Oklahoma?
Is there a big EV landfill in Oklahoma?
I think the odds are good, simply because the auto industry is so important to the macro economy. The auto manufacturers won’t like it publicly, but privately they will.
I was reminded the other day that tailpipe emissions in the 1990s were already cleaner than the ambient air in most urban areas. Meaning all emissions regulations have been absolute BS since then.
The key with fixing the EPA will be killing the CARB exemption and then firing as many EPA regulators as possible. No regulators, no further regulations. Then kill all existing regulations not passed by Congress.
if anything thats even more of a reason not to choose an ev. even if all the parts you mentioned did fail and needed to be replaced it would be far easier for someone in the income bracket who is looking at a 10 or 15 thousand dollar car to spread that 13k repair cost over many smaller "installments" of replacing individual components when they fail rather than 13k all at once for a battery.
even if its not 13k its still a massive singe repair bill even if i do somehow sell the battery for more than nothing
anyway in 10 years that wont be a 200k mile tesla but a 300 or 400k mile one
Nobody will be replacing batteries in decade old model 3s. Much too expensive.
No third owner of a Model 3 (which will have a trade in value under $10k at that point in the 2030s) will spend even $5k on it. It will become a junkyard car. People making $50k a year or less don't have that kind of money for car repairs.
they are not 3rd owners of Teslas.
If/when we get to this timeframe, it might be cost-prohibitive (both for the repair shops and OEMs) to support this.
I suspect we'll see them sent overseas where there will be looser regulations for repair shops, a more robust aftermarket SW ecosystem, and lower (non-US-level) customer expectations. You already see this with "totaled" Teslas, where many re-emerge in places like Turkey and SE Asia.
Except for the EOL software updates.
Most EVs live or die by software. I'd like to see what a 15yo Tesla is like a few years (or even months) after its last SW update.
There was an update last summer that borked the wireless connection and the wipers on my friend's Y. For a month, he basically drove around with a Nav map that couldn't update and wipers that randomly turned on a couple times per hour.
That said, a generation from now, there'll still be father and son drag races and hooning with their barnyard EVs. But the guys will be more like shade tree electrical engineers vs shade tree mechanical engineers.
Yep, the software will brick at some point, and battery packs will be "No Longer Available".
Actually thanks to hefty depreciation on EVs, a Chevy Bolt is easily found for under $15,000 … and most have batteries that were replaced not long ago. So I guess Chevy strikes again.
Chevy Volts are also relatively cheap now.
There are some NICE Volts out there!
I wonder if I'd always regret not getting a Prius for that particular commuting task, however.
A Cadillac ELR with <60,000 miles is about $16K. It has all the advantages of the Volt, Cadillac luxury, and I think it's the best looking Caddy made in the last 10 years.
Since this is the racing thread (of sorts):
I have come to the conclusion that BOP really is motorsport DEI, and that stage-managed sports car racing is just not doing it for me at this point. I was nauseated to see repeat cheater - his own team cheated in Indycar, which he also owns … that’s a Trump level Kleptocrat move - Roger Penske win at Daytona.
I offered this “take” to Butterfinger BB over at Jalopnik, so maybe he will run with it!
BOP has always annoyed me. The basic premise makes sense, "lets put a bunch of wildly disparate cars on the track and at least make it so they are close to the same speed", but its a system that is always going to be gamed. Either by cheating or by the liberal application of cash in the correct palms.
It seems to me that Balance of Performance is the conceptual opposite to the Index of Performance trophy given at Le Mans to the car with the best performance relative to engine displacement.
That being said, there are lots of sports that involve handicapping of some kind, including ballast on race cars and race horses. I suppose that one could say that weight classes in combat sports are a form of balancing performance. A middleweight fighting a heavyweight may both be fighting by the same rules, but that doesn't make it a fair fight.
It's a variant of the "strong men make good times" trope... everybody wants to get back to the "glory days" of sportscar racing without perhaps considering that the utterly lopsided domination and massive imbalance that characterized those eras essentially killed the fanbase.
The right way to do it is via a fixed set of technical regulations for displacement, size, and sophistication, with the understanding that this will lead to races in which cars win by 3 laps and others just quit.
I have nothing but disdain for the current LMP2-Hybrid class aka GTP but it DOES seem to put cars on the grid.
Let's hope BB takes your thoughts and runs with them. He's one of the most knowledgeable and adept racing journalists out there!
I've always wanted to be a dept, and a lert too.
Ha
The world needs more a lerts and a depts!
There're plenty of people out there derping, and that's kinda both combined.
Where does NASCAR fall into this equation?
Somewhere else... that's a pure spectator sport IMO.
godspeed LL. may our meager shekels provide you comfort.
It has been FAR from meager this morning, led by you and other motherflippin' heroes like you.
Kicked in a little late. We have a tortoise shell so I have a soft spot for them
Torties and calicos are the best cats. this is objectively true.
Well, our Tortie is a rescue (like all our cats), and even after 2 years is still a little skittish. She'll sit with us, but we can't pick her up or handle her much
We've had good luck with black cats. Supposedly they are less adoptable but ours have all been great
I fall asleep with my rescue tortie purring on my chest every night. It's the best.
Oh yes. Warm, purring cat is one of life's pleasures
Our orange tabby is like this. She'll sit on you but go sprinting off if you move in the slightest bit
I’ve heard that calicos are the feline equivalent of redheads! 😂😂 Gotta be careful with ‘em!
My donation was just put through.
The last of the surviving 1987 Chevettes will likely still be on the road when all of 2025 model year EVs have been bricked.
correction: "Chevettes will likely still be on the road when all of 2025 model year *cars* have been bricked"
correction: "Chevettes will likely still be on the road when the roads have all disappeared."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhSC4C43wgc
"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads."
Back to the Future, Ghostbusters, Predator....
Can never get tired of any of them. Classics all.
Unless those roads have salt on them ..
All I can contribute is this song from my childhood. No AC, no FM, and no regrets. In my Chevette. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFRe4Xddwbs
what is the american version of the Beetle, the peoples car, who will it come from, and when will it show up? if i had to place a wager, i'd say its decidedly NOT from an american make (which is unfortunate). ironically, it may also come from VW - the new jetta is the first one i can remember where the the base price of a new gen actually went DOWN, not up. the biggest issue, i think, is that you need to make something that stands on its own and doesnt have any luxury pretension or tries to be something its not. the G shock of cars, if you will.
The Beetle was Germany's Model-T Ford. This is why our history must be taught.
Point taken but adjusted for inflation a 1950 beetle was actually less expensive than a 1908 model T. It's still actually OVER the range jack gave, which means we need something even cheaper.
about the only thing cheaper that can move under its own power is a motorbike
hey look i found out why the third world uses them so much
That's why this is a difficult question. Americans won't accept (nor should they!) hordes of third world scooters. Minus rootless laptop class city hoppers, most Americans drive significant distances with people or things on a daily basis.
There should be a "kei car" class of vehicles available to Americans with bare bones saftey features and no tech. It would still be safer than a scooter
"Kei car" - not on the 405, thanks.
If you can afford to turn your nose up at cheap, covered mobility, then you are not the target audience
Kei cars are too small and underpowered.
The original Honda Fit was a brilliant car, and it’s an excellent city car with excellent packaging, but I sold mine because I thought it was too small for the craziness that exists on Chicago highways. I wanted more metal around me.
The Honda fit WAS a brilliant vehicle. It was also a modern and pretty safe little car. If you sold it today at $15k all in and put stickers on it warning you of the "dangers" of driving a car without modern saftey features like a box of cigarettes, you could probably sell a lot of them.
Also, don't take the kei car comment as literal- it would be different to match Americans and our roads, but something of that ilk.
Agree. Definitely in the minority when I say I thought they were nice looking and well thought out. They were what they were and would rock one in a heartbeat if my accord commuter wasn’t still running strong and heading towards 240k.
Third World Indians proved to prefer motorbikes and used Marutis to being seen in a brand new "cheapest car in the world" Tata Nano. Why would working class and poor Americans act any differently?
i think the mentality of third world indians is a poor metric to judge the preferences of the american driving public. having covered transport is essential to most americans travel, work, and status recognition. scooters are the realm of the american dalits, doordash drivers, people who have hulu with ads, etc. plus, most americans suffer through real winter. have fun with a motorbike.
That's like saying that the Beetle wasn't mass produced in 1938. During its production run, the Ford Model T's price fell to $290. Adjusted for inflation, that is $5,383.85 even after the last regime tried to end the dollar.
had no idea it got that cheap. im sure this is part of why they were hellbent for a while on tarnishing Ford's good name (posthumously, a century later)
100%. There is nothing that the elites hate like someone who improved the lives of everyone.
"From the people who brought you the “V6” with eight holes in the block"
As the erstwhile (it has since been replaced with yet *another* SPA-platform XC90) owner of a 2015 LR4 with exactly that engine...I've been trying to get to the bottom of why they did that. So, FoMoCo built all three generations of the AJ-V8 at its Bridgend, Wales plant through 2020, when that plant shut down. After that, JLR bought up all the tooling and moved it to its internal shop in Wolverhampton, England. It is not, strictly speaking, a Ford engine, and it bears no relation to the Ford Mod family and the current 5.0 Coyote V8. Development even began before FoMoCo purchased Jaguar. Anyway, between, I suppose, 2008-2020, FoMoCo was manufacturing the engine under contract, having sold Jaguar and Land Rover.
I suspect JLR needed a really cheap V6 engine and wanted to go the common route of building a shortened V6 on a V8 architecture...only supplier FoMoCo probably *required* a substantial tooling investment to build a shorter block, so JLR figured out a way to use the same block as the V8 with shorter heads, two fewer cylinders, and balancing shafts to make it all work.
An interesting alternative might have been to borrow the Volvo SI6 inline-6 engine, which was *also* produced at the Bridgend plant and which was even used in the Volvo-derived Freelander 2/LR2...but that engine was designed for transverse applications and it may have been pretty expensive to modify it for longitude use, as in most of the JLR cars. It also wasn't particularly potent.
---
"I don’t particularly cherish the idea of everyone driving a battery-powered car but it seems obvious to me that something in the $10,000-$15,000 range is necessary to make that happen."
It's quite obvious that no one in power cares about affordable new-car transportation. Why waste your time making a $15,000 car and have to worry about selling 300,000 of them a year to break even on amortization costs...when you can instead make a $45,000 car that's a gussied-up version of something much cheaper, and rake in the profit?
On top of that--and I deal with these people *frequently*--there's a contingent of individuals that really should be looking for a cheap, reasonable car, and who should be in the market for a $15,000-$20,000 car, but who will turn their noses up at anything that isn't good-looking and will then stretch their budget to uncomfortable levels to get something they *do* like. "I ought to be looking at a new Outlander Sport, but I want a loaded Bronco Sport for twice the price, instead."
So, when I was working, briefly, as a DRE on contract to JLR I asked this exact question.
The answer is interesting: it reduces vehicle complexity massively. It mounts at the same point, all the wiring harnesses, coolant, refrigerant, etc lines all hook up to the EXACT same place on the front end, etc. This keeps things easy on the assembly line but also saves a veritable fuckload of ED&D cost
The unlocking is pretty simple, you've been able to do this for 20+ years on JLR products if you know how to edit the car configuration file.
That’s very good to know; I figured it was something like that.
As for the CCF thing, they inherited that from Ford and it’s not particularly novel. Most brands do stuff like that.
I had to edit the CCF files on my LR4 to enable adaptive cruise (along with adding the radar, bracket and gap switch button pack).
All of this makes perfect sense -- but you just KNOW Sir William Lyons would have said, "ah, sod that, let's just put the big engine in ALL OF THEM."
And wouldn't always using a V8 save even more? Don't forget that they also had to supercharge the V6 so it could make the LR4 move. Does a 1-2 mpg gain on the highway help that much with CAFE fines? Why did they ever need a V6?
The other question I have is why JLR never developed an AWD package for the XJ and XF with the V8. When those cars first got the V6 and the ZF 8AT for MY2013, only the V6 could be equipped with AWD. They never bothered to make a V8 + AWD version, even though obviously the packaging and placement was exactly the same. However, there were V8 + AWD + 8AT versions of the F-Type and F-Pace, not to mention all of the longitude Range Rover products, so it was feasible.
It was probably for the same reason FCA didn't develop an AWD + HEMI package for the LX cars when they moved to the ZF 8AT in 2015. Development costs versus expected sales numbers. I believe the take rate for the AWD + HEMI, prior to that, was something like 6% on the cars that offered it, so they just didn't carry that scarcely-purchased option over with the 8AT. The Charger Police Intercepts with the AWD + HEMI powertrain retained the Mercedes-Benz 5AT, and lasted through 2020.
Yes its all about CAFE numbers. CAFE has resulted in all sorts of design distortions and general stupidity over the years. And remember the test cycle for the fuel economy numbers used for the CAFE calcs is completely unrealistic (and different from the cycle used for the EPA mpg numbers on the sticker), which has led to all sorts of games, lies, cheats, and bizarre engine programming. Just KILL CAFE NOW. Please.
There's a plotline here where a reincarnated Lyons and Jeremy Clarkson overthrow the British government over CO2 regulations
a) thank you for using "erstwhile", it's a disappearing word and I'm not sure why
b) Especially in America, people are always going to have their pride. If I understand the history of it, a lot of middle-class people traded in beater Stovebolt Chevies on Beetles that were then turned around and sold to the people who SHOULD have been in the Beetles. I don't even know how to begin to address the societal aspects of it.
The Rub(TM) of the Chevette is that it was reliable, so the new Chevette needs also to be reliable. Right now, reliability is a dumb shell game makers play. GM played that game before the Chevette with the Vega. Those things were awful, which forced them to make a good car fit to woo consumers.
When I say awful, I mean "had to take the mounts loose and jack it up to change the spark plugs" awful. Or "alu block with iron sleeves would self immolate and warp all surfaces" awful. Or "mechanical fuel injection from Europe? AYFKM?" awful.
The Chevette had to be good because it was Chevy's "aw come on, gurl. You know I luh u." letter to the poors who were moving lots of units in all the other brands. They didn't make much per unit, but GMAC loved to amortize those things.
To truly capture the moment and the best qualities of the Chevette, GM, or whomever, will have to not mess around and they will have to build a good car intended to last 20 years or 400k miles, whichever comes first. That's a tall order with the current climate in automakers c-suites where squeezing the turnip happens at gunpoint.
I keep thinking about that Shelby con job where he appeared in the 90s and exclaimed "yee haw, I just found 100 paper titles in my attic. Time to make some Cobras and a suitcase of c-notes!" Why couldn't GM just get in the loophole business and make repop "kit car" Chevettes to side step the federalies? What if they showed up in a crate at your house, rather like a motorcycle from Amazon. No wheels on the car. You gotta charge the battery yourself. You have to fill the fluids. Etc. But you also get some sort of neato extra like a cool air freshener that makes the interior smell like an 80s GM car with that fuzzy seating surfaces stuff.
And what about a small gas turbine to power a gennie, so you could charge it anywhere?
I'm glad to hear about your weight gain. Part of staying on the long term path is straying every once in a while, which feels dumb and self-destructive, but it's science based "truth"
I'm doing sets of archer pushups before bed for some stupid reason. Don't listen to me.
Also, if you like Lorenzo's tale of brass balls, you might check out my fellow author Mona Lisa Foster @mona lisa's musings here. She's a Romanian immigrant and her family escaped the evil commies (no irony or sarc with that) back in the bad old days of walls and Soviet premiers with bird poop on their forehead. She has a good short book called "pretending to sleep" that's a fiction work about what it was like in Romania.
She's quite a hard right lady now, naturally. She's a great author and has stuff published all over, including Baen.
I'll listen to anyone who can do an archer pushup. My current goal is 62 normal pushups in 60 seconds, since I'm training with my son for the USAFA entrance test. Two nights ago I failed on the 59th one and actually injured my dick when I hit the ground... back at it again tonight, but I gotta roll to the side or something when it all goes wrong!
A quiet victory for thumbdicks everywhere.
I heard Hegseth say he did 5 sets of 45 in the mornings or something like that a couple of days ago. I'm lucky to have strong wrists, because those archers are murder on the wristicles.
The USAFA competencies are a good guidepost. Way to support the kid continually and in healthy ways.
Those pushups look fun: the Ol' Thritis in my right wrist tells me those are a No Go.
Perhaps a PSA extolling the virtues of The Stranger is in Order: (Winter clouds scudding over gray water. Voice: "Mother died today") This could get weird
Yes they are not arthritis friendly. Ouchie
best humblebrag I've read in some time:
_Two nights ago I failed on the 59th one and actually injured my dick when I hit the ground._
We've never talked about Mike Winnet, the guy who invented the word humblebrag, on here. He's an interesting character that would appeal to many ACFers
At my age that many reps is basically a repetitive stress injury and I avoid them like 'one rep max' nonsense.
" Or "alu block with iron sleeves would self immolate and warp all surfaces""
Hang on, wasn't the Vega's initial novelty in that it was purely a aluminum block, no hard wearing liners or anything? It was supposed to save a lot of money on manufacturing cost. But famously went sideways and they had to put liners in anyways.
Yes. Previous to nikasil the only remedy was iron. Even then they would overheat and warp beyond repair.
Thankfully my two cats each had the privilege to die in comfort surrounded by love; one in the vets office during the thick of Covid while I held his paw, the other curled on my pillow for one last night surrounded by her family. Hit me right in the feels, may my donation find Loopy well and close to the goal!
THANK YOU sir.
That poor kitty looks scared .
I'll keep paying for the content here as I find it very dollar worthy .
FUCK raul castro and any other communist believer .
Major Orestes Lorenzo Perez << this is a true hero and patriot .
I keep trying to tell you alls that the Chevette may not be your cuppa tea but it _IS_ a viable transportation solution .
" So we need a Chevette EV." ~ _NO_ , ABSOLUTELY NOT . why punish young and poor drivers ? .
Isn't that bottom dollar Nissan....? versa? thing supposed to be the current hair shirt ? .
-Nate
The earlier, Dacia-Logan-style cars were GREAT CARS! and I should have bought one new. However, they don't seem to hold up, and I don't know if that's because of the car or the owners.
Oh, well ;
I hope I never need to buy another vehicle, my truck is in VGC so I hope to keep that to the end of my driving days (? dayze ?) .
-Nate
I currently provide various services to seven felines, so the bucks were forked over. My Dad had an Orange chevette, stick ,when I was a kid. I carved my name with my nails into the trim and I remember how even a slight amount of sweat would glue me to the vinyl seat. We lived in Florida and my father didn’t like A/C, so I stayed wedged to that seat
Yikes!
nearly as good as a bucket seat then
THANK YOU, expect an email tonight!
Congrats on the weightloss
Well, after bitching in public about it... I'd been down to 211-212 then popped up to 215 over the weekend. I took two days off weights because my left shoulder was feeling WAY loose... but this morning I was 210, so who knows how it all works? Not me.
Just fluctuations in water weight. I’m sure your diet and electrolyte intake is not consistent enough for daily numbers to be a reliable indicator.
Just one bout of chocolate chip pancakes would have you retaining a lot of extra water.
Also, make sure to supplement 5g of creatine a day. Excellent brain benefits as well. That and weightlifting are especially beneficial for people who have suffered TBIs.
I've taken so many shots to the kidneys (insert joke here, but it was largely cycling and sparring) that I'm kind of marginal in that regard... but I'm about to get another blood draw that should show me if I'm clear to supplement a bit.
Use a spreadsheet or app with some kind of moving average. Daily water fluctuations are all over the place. As long as the days weigh in is below the trendline and pulling it down, it's a win. I've used this old school web version off and on for like 20 years. https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/online/hdo.html
no. number on dumbbell only go up. make voices in head happy.
I have nothing but love and respect for the lowly Chevette. My first car was my Dad's 1979 Chevette, in the best possible spec: 4-speed manual, no a/c, 2-door hatchback, with cloth seats, beige on beige. My Dad bought it off the dealer lot brand-new, it was passed to me after he realized that there was no trade-in value against the '85 Tempo (5-speed, 2-door) that he replaced it with. The Chevette always started and was extremely tolerant of any shenanigans that I put it through. It was t-boned by a' 76 LTD in 1988, I transplanted the engine into a 1980 T-1000 body and ran it for 2 more years. I guess my opinion would be different if I had our neighbor's Chevette experience - a diesel with A/C. I wish I knew about the 2.8/3.4 conversion back in the day.
My first car was a 76 Chevette with the 1.4. It was a total piece of garbage but I have so many fond memories of that car that I'd own another in a heartbeat. I slept in it overnight to attend Dan's Bake Sale in Ft Collins when Rush Limbaugh came to town so I would have some decent parking. Wasn't that 1993 or so? When I sold it and acquired a Pontiac Phoenix with a 2.8 it seemed like moving from a Model T to an LS400.
Apparently, my parents got rid of their Opel GT for a new 1976 Chevette when I came along. Would any young family be caught dead today in something so small? Seems like a Highlander is the minimum size vehicle to haul a solitary kid anymore.
My uncle bought a new 1979 Chevette. It was a 4 speed with A/C that had to have worked once in its life. That became the family heirloom as it was passed to another uncle who passed it on to dad where it was neglected to death. I drove it some after turning 16 and remember being seared onto the maroon vinyl seats in the Oklahoma sun. The door panels were a series of charming shades of purple before dad fashioned new ones from wood paneling.
I know of a diesel Chevette that could likely be picked up for a song. I want it of course but the 1980s GM cheap interior smell coupled with rodent odors nauseates me enough to keep it a dream. It would be fun to see how much traffic I could obstruct trying to merge onto I-25 though.
With Uber/Lyft and a general lack of desire to drive on the part of younger people, I don't know how successful a car like the Chevette would be these days. I'm eternally grateful for cars like it though and the freedom they provided. It was also a catalyst for being able to fix cars and not be beholden to a "professional" mechanic.
What year Phoenix? I had an 81 hatchback with 4 and auto (had a messed up left knee at the time). When things weren’t falling apart and the brakes weren’t locking up it was great - hauled a lot of stuff, went thru all sorts of mountain snow without chains, bombed around on some crazy rocky roads. Finally dumped it for an Accord Lxi 5sp.
Mine was a 1980. I've had two of them, both hatchbacks. Oddly enough, my last one lives on in junkyard photos on Murilee Martin's webpage. The first one needed a new steering rack and that led to the first time I ever flung a tool in anger. The front pump sheared in the automatic trans and one of dad's buddies encouraged me to fix it instead of junking the car. I don't really remember the rear brake lockup but I do remember doing rear brakes and finding the emergency brake spring imbedded in one of the shoe linings. My biggest complaint was with the 2SE carburetor. The engineers should have been prosecuted for that hesitating, flooding, bogging piece of crap.
The packaging and general engineering of the X-car Phoenix was REMARKABLE. Too bad GM dropped the safety ball at the last minute.
Something they seem to repeat all too often.
not just the safety ball, but the durability ball also. and they just took the fore-aft I4 and V6 engines and rotated them 90 degrees without moving the attached components making it a PITA to work on.
I also remember cursing that carb. And the oil filter position on the back of the transverse engine against the firewall. Grrrr. And the crappy engine mount that failed. And the cloth seats that disintegrated at 50,000 miles. And the crappy auto trans that died at 60,000 miles. And I seem to recall having to disassemble the dash several times.
Picked up for a song? What song?
Nothing by the Red Hot Chili Peppers, I hope.
They suck.
Honest to God just yesterday on the drive to work I passed a 2-door Tempo heading the opposite direction. Spun my head much faster than any C8 ever will.
oddball survivors always get my attention faster, and for longer, than anything exotic. case in point: the nearly pristine first-gen Subaru Brat I saw in traffic earlier this week. the want was strong.
That thing would fetch REAL money on BaT.
man, fuck BaT and auctions in general and the people willing to spend real money on something like a Brat only to place it at the center of a cars and coffee circle-jerk.
/endrant
BaT is a decent platform that brings a national audience to cars that would never receive it otherwise. it serves as a clearinghouse for anything interesting to be sold at the highest price. does this inflate value to a "national high bid"? yes. does it incentivize people to spend the money to keep things like brats in tact and nice, knowing they can monetize it later? also yes. ultimately, its a net positive for classic and interesting cars, knowing there is a highly liquid secondary market with a fairly efficient pricing system.
Saw a nicely preserved Plymouth Reliant a couple years back in a parking. It wasn't large, but still could seat 6 and had room in the trunk. Either they were better at packaging or possibly less content to find space for
Same. Saw a teal two door Topaz in nice shape in traffic. Major double take. Supercars? Keep 'em.
I always had a thing for pre-facelift Stratus R/T coupes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/regularcarreviews/comments/oxq0e4/2004_dodge_stratus_rt_the_car_you_get_because_its/
Don't ask me why, cause I don't know myself.
It'll chirp the tires in second, that is pretty damn fast for 1986.