545 Comments
User's avatar
Jeff H's avatar

"The best production Corvette I’ve ever driven was a fully-loaded C7 Grand Sport 7-speed..."

This is literally my dream car. In that Magnetic Gray, with blue hash mark decals on the front fenders and the black center stripe decal on the hood... I was so hoping that the combination of C8/Covid-19 panic would result in C7 GS's getting offloaded for $30k... man, that did not happen.

Jack... can you tell me a little more about the C7 GS?

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

That's cause the C8 is Ugly

Expand full comment
Chuck S's avatar

When the car first came out, I thought it was handsome. Over time, however, I have come to realize that it is anodyne - a generic representative of a supercar that mashes up bits and pieces of all the came before. all that and the proportions are off - the hips are too wide.

that said, I saw one in Sebring orange last weekend and loved the color.

Expand full comment
Nplus1's avatar

Funny, I hate that color, although I like orange. It's so plain. Makes the car look cheap.

Expand full comment
BKbroiler's avatar

The overall looks are "fine," but I hate the backside with a passion. It's got strange proportions and scale, which I think is because the trunk was designed to fit a pair of golf bags (?)

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Uncanny valley of sports cars

Expand full comment
sgeffe's avatar

The BRG and candyapple reds with ivory interiors are nice, too!

Expand full comment
Donkey Konger's avatar

It's like an uglified version of the McLaren GT-

or the McLaren GT is a beautified version of the C8 (though IIRC the McLaren entered production first)

Expand full comment
CLN's avatar

Very early in Covid, metro Detroit dealers were unloading GS Vettes in the mid 40s. I should have bought 2.

Expand full comment
Jeff H's avatar

Ugh... if only!

Is that your 2002 in the thumbnail?

Expand full comment
CLN's avatar

Yep

Expand full comment
Jeff H's avatar

Looks like a super cool build... I'd like to hear about that, too...

Expand full comment
CLN's avatar

Sure, I'm trying to write something up for Harambe...

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

looking forward to it

Expand full comment
Jeff H's avatar

Awesome... looking forward to it

Expand full comment
Donkey Konger's avatar

Excellent!

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

Those same cars fetch $60-70k now with 60,000 miles.

Expand full comment
CLN's avatar

don't make me cry...I also remember when late '70s 911s were sub $10k, and didn't buy one b/c I thought they were overpriced!

Expand full comment
-Nate's avatar

I really shoulda bought that gray market 1969 911S for $3k but it was a _lot_ of $ for me at the time.....

-Nate

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I had a thought a bit back "Maybe I'll buy a Viper. How much could they possibly be" logged onto autotrader or edmunds or something similar and then had a thought "Maybe not"

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

I have a 2019 C7 GS convertible with the manual. Watkins Glen Gray with the black hood decal. Everyone should drive one, as they are way better than you think. If you drove regular cars your whole life like I did, you have to recalibrate how you drive because of the Magneride and great handling and brakes. On the street the car stays flat in corners so it doesn’t give you the physical sensations you’re used to from normal cars. You don’t even need to use the brakes a lot. For regular corners you just turn the wheel and let the car do its thing with its high cornering limits. Prices are dropping on used C7’s, as prices on the better looking C6’s are rising slightly.

I definitely had imposter syndrome when I first bought it, but I was about to retire and wanted to buy something nice while I was still getting a paycheck. It was honestly a waste of time to own it in the Chicago suburbs, because there are no good curvy roads and everything is laid out on a grid. This car was made for the twisty mountain roads of NC where I now live. You can even have fun at the speed limit over here. The nicest car I had previously was a 944S2 Cabriolet. That was a great car that I loved, but compared to the C7, it was a VW Beetle.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

My dad had a c5. One of the rules of ownership was i wasnt allowed to drive it. That rule wasnt followed. My dad shouldve kept it.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

I’m glad I never had a car like this when I was young. It was much better that I learned how to really drive in an ‘86 GTI with 100hp.

There are used low mile Corvettes for sale everywhere. I just bought a ticket for a local charity raffle for a C4 with only 21k miles.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I wasnt even that young

Expand full comment
-Nate's avatar

As long as not crashed and everything works, why not buy a cheap high miler one ? .

(serious question, I doubt I'd buy one to keep) .

-Nate

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I've ridden my motorcycle once in the past 2 years. The Corvette would get driven even less. At this point, I should probably just sell the bike. It almost certainly needs new tires now and I'm just too busy to drive everything I already have. Next year, I should put the new tires on and drive it to work like I used to. Used to ride in the winter if there wasn't snow but now I'm a wuss.

Expand full comment
Amelius Moss's avatar

My first thought; it was the rule that wasn't kept and you stuffed it in a fence.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I did that with his GS400 at 16 years old. Thankfully that was his least favorite car he's ever owned and if I had done it in my car, my sister wouldn't have gotten out with just some bruising. Wrecked the car, police couldn't get through on the home line because someone was on AOL and cell phones weren't a thing yet.

Expand full comment
Amelius Moss's avatar

Oof…

Expand full comment
Donkey Konger's avatar

Let's get THAT driving for Harambe story. Have your dad write it up from his perspective too ;)

Expand full comment
AK47isthetool's avatar

I am not really very tribal, or at least with the enshittification of everything am post-tribal. That being said, I have always been a "Corvette Guy" in my heart of hearts. My die-hard Porsh-uh neighbor got a C7 GS a little before covid hit, and I, I needed the Mustang because I still must chauffeur the young sirs and madames to soccer practice.

Expand full comment
CLN's avatar

"You don’t even need to use the brakes a lot. For regular corners you just turn the wheel and let the car do its thing"

hahahahahahahaha

Expand full comment
Fat Baby Driver's avatar

I love doing that with unsuspecting passengers.

Expand full comment
Erik's avatar

I went to order one in Sterling Blue, but three things stopped me. 1) The dealership folks were total assholes, and wouldn’t let me test drive any C7, just to make sure I fit. Nope, their policy was that no one gets to drive anything but the car they bought. Life in Canada. 2) It sure felt like all 6’4 of me wouldn’t fit. At least not for the long drives I like to do. 3) Canadian buyers got no version of the US factory/ Corvette Museum pickup option. Damn shame. Seemed a sensational car. The last real Corvette.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

Sterling Blue looks fantastic and is pretty rare. I bought mine from a family run dealership that sold 100 Corvettes a year and really treated their customers like adults, no games. I wanted to drive a manual GS, but the only one they had was on the showroom floor. They promptly moved 2 other cars that were in the way through the big glass doors into their parking lot, then the GS, so that I could take the manual car for a test drive. I cut a great deal with them, too. I got 10% or a bit more off on my order. If I would have bought one out of their inventory I could have gotten 20% off (this was in 2018).

My only regret in the ordering process was not being able to go to Bowling Green and be the first one to start my car when it was still on the assembly line. I toured the assembly line previously, and watched a new owner be the first one to start his car. It was fantastic! The guy and the workers were so happy. Unfortunately, that option was not available when I ordered mine because they were installing their new paint shop. But I was glad I waited until the new paint shop came online. I had my car wrapped in PPF by the top installer in Chicago who wraps many high end cars. He told me that my car had the best paint job he’d ever seen on a GM car. If you are looking for a used C7, all the 2019’s were painted in the new shop, along with some late 2018’s. I did not order a C7 earlier in the model run because there were so many complaints about the paint jobs.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Who is the Chicago installer?

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

Chicago Auto Pros. They did a great job. I still buy some products from them and watch their YouTube channel. I last used their Lombard shop at I-355 and Butterfield.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Thanks. That's 15 minutes from me.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

I lived 15 minutes to the east.

Expand full comment
Thomas Hank's avatar

I still want the “commemorative” Admiral blue / white striped variant done up like the old ‘96s. It’s probably my favorite c7 aesthetically with the red guts. I’m sure they pull steep premiums.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

That was almost what I chose. Admiral Blue was a rare color, maybe because it was a darker blue than the one used on the C4. The other good combination that I saw in a Corvette ad but never on a real car was an American flag theme: white body, blue stripes, and red hash marks and a red interior.

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

I'll co-sign what my brother wrote

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a31423/corvette-grand-sport-pcoty/

And note further that the C7 GS, on track, is everything you could ever want in a street-legal coupe.

Expand full comment
Chuck S's avatar

I am suddenly reminded that I now the average age of a Corvette buyer, though not yet of the largest age group of buyers.

Expand full comment
Sam's avatar

But tell me more about the Evora 400. A Vette, C5Z, C6Z, C7GS it doesn't matter, is the right car for me. But I'm a mid-millennial who grew up with uncles driving C3s and C4s, and every Cars and Coffee I go to is full of Vettes with their build sheets taped to the windshield, so I struggle seeing myself in that culture. The Evora is a bit of an odd duck, which is more my thing, I drove a 280zx and a CB7 Accord instead of a S13 and an EG hatch in high school, I bought a Mazdaspeed3 instead of an Evo or STi. Should I hide my feelings about Jorts and Air Monarchs deep inside and get the wise on paper choice, or should I continue to be "different", and buy an Evora 400?

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

Evoras are cool. Watch the Savage Geese videos on them for great information.

Expand full comment
G Jetson's avatar

You must drive them both, and decide based on that. I chose an '05 Elise over anything else in that era, because I liked how it felt. Maybe it was to be different as much as the feel or anything else, but I sure was happy with it. So ... not only the feel of the car itself, but how it made me feel about it.

Corvette feels heavy. Elise feels light. Evora may split the difference.

Expand full comment
Donkey Konger's avatar

This is the right answer. Test drives are priceless.

Expand full comment
S2kChris's avatar

Evoras have some deal where replacing the clutch is a 5-figure job because you have to remove and then reinstall and align all the bodywork in the rear. That’s the biggest drawback of them I’m aware of. Not saying Corvettes are cheap, but they aren’t like that.

Expand full comment
Colin's avatar

Is that real?? That’s ridiculously stupid

Expand full comment
Colin's avatar

#resonates

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I'm voting Walz Harris because I too have a Beretta A400. It's a nice gun.

Expand full comment
S2kChris's avatar

(Seal yelling) Gaaaayyyyy

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Lol. Like im voting.

Expand full comment
John Marks's avatar

I just went down to City Hall and cast a write-in vote for Egg McMuffin.

Which is a spoof on Evan McMullen, an Arabic-speaking former CIA operative who set up intelligence networks in the Mideast for 10 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_McMullin

In other words... a real man.

Not a fatbag who gropes beauty-contest girls and who makes vulgar comments about his daughter's attractiveness. BTW, DJT Blasphemed the Holy Eucharist, and I hope that he receives his proper reward ASAP.

john

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

Well, let's hope for the sake of your cultured distaste that this unpleasant person is comprehensively defeated by a pair of lizard demons who will hasten the murder and torture of Christians in this country by 20 percent.

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

"DJT Blasphemed the Holy Eucharist"

how might that match up against the irish catholic biden being vehemently pro abortion

Expand full comment
BKbroiler's avatar

He's been more Sgt Schultz-y re: abortion, I think, than - say - giving out abortion gift cards

Expand full comment
SBO-very online guy's avatar

i really cannot tell if this is satire or not. bravo.

Expand full comment
Ice Age's avatar

I'm voting for Trump. He took a bullet, so it's the least I could do.

But truth be told, if anyone else were on the ballot, I'd write in Jean-Luc Picard or Optimus Prime.

Expand full comment
tinman93's avatar

I am voting for the Wu Tang Clan.

Presidents come and presidents go, but Wu Tang is forever!

Expand full comment
Ronnie Schreiber's avatar

Speaking of the Eucharist, did you see Whitmer's stunt? Trump may be vulgar but the people running the Democratic party despise you.

Expand full comment
Harry's avatar

His daughter is objectively hot. I don't know what it says about this country that the first thing that comes up when you search her is NOT the pic of her on the runway with a single boob hanging out. That was news in the tristate area even before his rise on the apprentice.

Expand full comment
Amelius Moss's avatar

What a throwaway of a vote. At least Mayor McCheese has executive experience.

Expand full comment
Gianni's avatar

Rumor is Harris was knocking boots with the mayor when she worked at McD’s.

https://babylonbee.com/news/source-says-kamala-was-promoted-at-mcdonalds-after-having-affair-with-mayor-mccheese

Expand full comment
Andy's avatar

I have a good story about the MT900, as probably the only ACF subscriber to have been involved in litigation about its copyright. I represented the designer of the car who brought the design to Mosler. In the process I came across Mosler himself and wasn't overly impressed with the company's ethics.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

For being actors, you’d think those guys wouldn’t look so awkward.

There’s something about the false masculinity exhibited by Walz and others that repels me. I can’t really articulate why. The best I can do is channel my inner Zommer and say that it gives me “the ick”.

Expand full comment
Julian's avatar

I think part of the awkwardness is that they're acting out a role that they only know of as a caricature. These guys have never interacted with a real "traditional American male" so they can't nail the role because it's inherently a big joke about someone else. No different than if you asked them to portray an African tribesman, then asked them if it was accurate.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

He creeps me out. I’m sure he also creeps out some wise Moms, too.

Expand full comment
Sir Morris Leyland's avatar

Faking it makes both their deficiencies and their habitual dishonesty more obvious.

To the former, it is basically the difference between "Chris Farley in jeans and a flannel shirt" and "the Chris Farley Chippendales skit." To the latter, at one of the last events before his assassination, JFK was handed a ten-gallon hat, which he politely refused to wear, because he knew what he was, an East Coast Harvard guy, and what he was not, a cowboy or a Texan.

Expand full comment
Pete Madsen's avatar

Like Tyrus said tonight, Walz is mashed potates in a hat.

Expand full comment
Donkey Konger's avatar

Gay or straight, there has not been a man in history with limper wrists than Walz

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

"I’d like to see the frontal area numbers for both, maybe that would tell the tale."

my money is on an aero focus towards higher downforce for track work with the low drag setup for that car being not nearly as slippery as the bugatti

"CARB (California Air Resources Board) required a 25.8lb flywheel"

anyone know why something like this would be specified unless its an oem component

"at least one of whom does porn"

bro what

"maybe I’m voting for Trump because I really do harbor racist notions"

this is very amusing to me because the most racist people i know dont want to vote for trump because of how pro isreal and pro black he is combined with doing basically nothing for whites lol

Expand full comment
Jeff Weimer's avatar

Not just porn, *gay* porn. Lanre Idewu, the black guy. ("Man enough to braid my daughter's hair!")

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

i was unaware yet somehow knew in my heart of hearts that wasnt ever going to be a straight guy

Expand full comment
Boom's avatar

Carb would not specify a flywheel, that is a bullshit statement.

Expand full comment
S B's avatar

The CARB flywheel comment in a low production car like the Mosler could be similar to how CARB handles LS swap cars. The swapped car must retain all donor car factory emissions equipment, including cats. And I believe you can't change the headers or intake, either. Perhaps "factory emissions equipment" includes the flywheel?

I don't live in California

Expand full comment
CLN's avatar

The gasoline fight is so funny. That and the walk-off scene near the end are my favorites.

Expand full comment
Mozzie's avatar

Wait, wait, wait. You're telling me the guy bailed on on archery elk camp to go pheasant hunting which doesn't end until January? Since I'm not on social media, can someone look to see if there's a bow in sight?

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

Nobody but Walz was allowed to carry a weapon on the "hunt", a fact that went entirely unremarked upon by the loyal state media.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Shouldve sent cheney with him. Is he dead? I think hes dead

Expand full comment
sgeffe's avatar

He probably got better! 😂🙄

Expand full comment
S2kChris's avatar

And Walz didn’t fire his apparently. Either he was shit at it, or he didn’t want to piss off the other side with him killing an animal. So “I’ll go on a hunt, but only if I don’t have to kill anything.” That’s where he (they) are. Christ.

Expand full comment
Ronnie Schreiber's avatar

He had trouble loading it.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I have two berettas. Very nice guns. If i was going on a hunt as a vp

Candidate, id probaby get a browning.

Expand full comment
Henry C.'s avatar

If instead he had used an AA12 and went all Dwayne Camacho with it, the bit might have worked.

There's a story floating around about him and an underage male student that sounds too detailed to be made up.

Expand full comment
AJS's avatar
Oct 16Edited

I was going to bring up Reuss and the ZR1 yesterday but figured Jack would be on the case without me going off topic in a thread aimed at helping one of our own.

What really baffles about Markey Mark insisting he be the one at the wheel for the top speed run - while an engineer rode shotgun - is that several people on hand have gone sub-8 at the 'Ring, including Aaron Link who did a 7:41 in a porky fifth-gen Camaro ZL1 in 2011, not to mention that Chevy brought along Jeff Fuckin Gordon just to watch while an executive who makes just shy of $18 million per year plays racer for the cameras? The whole thing reeks of insecurity... but I, for one, am pretty impressed by the result even though I still think the Z06 (and the Z07 from two gens ago) is the one to get.

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

seems pretty insulting to drag jeff along when he didnt even get to drive the thing

Expand full comment
AJS's avatar

It was even an oval track!

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

and hes literally one of the most qualified people to drive exactly that

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Maybe GM was hoping to save 18mm dollars

Expand full comment
AJS's avatar

Took me a sec... but then real deal lol

Expand full comment
Tom Klockau's avatar

*Dr. Evil laughter*

Expand full comment
Brian Horecky's avatar

this comment is awesome! so absurd that this guy makes 18 million. i dont understand how any of these companys think that high of a salary is justified. Would love to see a show where is was like an undercover assistant or secretary for a big ceo type and just show that they dont do a damn thing all day.

Expand full comment
Nplus1's avatar

The CEO of Reddit was compensated almost $200 million last year. 18 million is a bargain!

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

To make it suck!

Expand full comment
Tom Klockau's avatar

Reddit CEO: so we could buy and sell you...how many times?

Secretary: 32.

Reddit CEO: hey, it's gone up since lunch!

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I'm currently at the point of the year where I don't do a damn thing all day. Random phone call here or there but the workload is so light it all gets handed off to employees. That's pretty much 10/15 - 12/1. I'll probably get some continuing professional education in.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

That’s this company. Most of the work gets done from January through the 4th of July. By then, everyone is on vacation and don’t return until after Labor Day. The Euros and their 6-8 week vacations have a lot to do with that. After which, everyone tries to ram through projects until about Thanksgiving. Nothing gets done again until after New Year.

This leaves some people with A LOT of downtime.

Expand full comment
Mozzie's avatar

Don't wait until Christmas to cram all the CPEs in.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

C6 Carbon/Z07 is the best Corvette ever made. 30 years from now people will look at them they way they do L-88s today.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I really want a c6 but i am lame and wont buy one

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

i believe in you

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

With # 4 on the way, it’s not a sensible purchase. At least i can shoot my guns. I don't really drive anywhere without the family

Expand full comment
S2kChris's avatar

Do you bring your family to work? Drive it there. That’s where 75% of my S2000 miles accumulate at this point.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I live 2.5 miles from work. Takes 7 minutes to get there. 13 by bicycle. 90% of my driving is family road trips

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

Same. I've gone back and forth on this a million times. I got tired of dealing with stupid GM/Corvette people and Corvette issues. Dollar for dollar you can't beat it, but I kind of want a fresh start. My original plan was a Viper but I don't fit in them well.

Lately, I've been able to get my adrenaline fix from riding ATVs. Part of me worries that by the time I want another sports car that anything appealing will be too old and a money pit to own and operate. There's just not much out there that I find interesting these days.

This is how it must've felt for guys in the 70s.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Part of my issue is the S4 is already fast enough to get me into a lot of trouble. And if I really want to go stupid fast again, I'll get another litre bike. I figure my next sports car will be in 15 years or so when the kids are mostly grown up. Hopefully it's not all electric hell by then.

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

That or the 427 convertible.

Expand full comment
Nplus1's avatar

That's the one. Sometimes they seem expensive compared to other Vettes, then I remember they had stickers over $90k in 2013.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

My only complaint about those is half of them seem to have that stupid blue interior. There's a few ones floating around that are red or black. Those are the ones to have, IMO.

Now that I think about it, a convertible would probably be more desirable than a fixed roof anyway.

Expand full comment
Nplus1's avatar

If it were a Porsche with a Yachting Blue interior, people would be creaming themselves over that.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

WELCOME TO AUTOPIANS HOLY GRAILS. HERE'S THIS PORSCHE WITH BLUE INTERIOR AND A BLUE TOP WITH RACING STRIPES. HOW COOL IS THAT? PLEASE LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE AND DONATE TO OUR PATREON. EXCLUSIVE PERKS INCLUDE LIVEBLOGS OF DAVID TRACY LIVING IN A MOLD-INFESTED CAMPER.

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

I like the blue interior and would seek it out!

Expand full comment
Donkey Konger's avatar

This is the one, IMO. Many appear to be expensive.

Expand full comment
Matthew Horgan's avatar

Amen.

Expand full comment
Nplus1's avatar

There's almost nothing I hate more than top level people taking interesting opportunities from rank and file. "You know what? You did all the work to make this happen, but I'm going to claim the glory. Thanks, Loser!"

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

"Oh but you can sit next to me while I do it."

Expand full comment
Colin's avatar

In the mil the culture is the exact opposite. Give all the cool things to hard working enlisted, and all the test flights to the head pilots.

Expand full comment
Julian's avatar

I really like your take on the obsession modern Left (and its urban base) with the “outdoorsy image.” I can’t tell you how many Tacomas and 4Runners I see kitted out and driven by some dude in flannel that’s never seen dirt. It always makes me wonder why, but I guess there is something that they don’t want to lose, and want to project, that they’re still in touch and outdoorsy.

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

The idea of being an outdoorsman is so attractive, and so deeply resonant in the American male psyche, that even a simulacrum or unconscious parody of reality can be deeply satisfying.

Expand full comment
Julian's avatar

It also seems, based on appearances, that it becomes even more satisfying the further it is from reality.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

Me and my camping buds used to call the urban flannel shirt crowd the “indoor outdoorsmen”.

Expand full comment
Ark-med's avatar

We used to call them Bohemian homeless

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

The best way to experience any subculture is by adding tiny snackable parts of it to your fancy normal life!

Expand full comment
Amelius Moss's avatar

As a young teenager bowhunting with Dad I got to spend an 18° night sleeping on the ground in a tent and then rode a climbing tree stand down like a broken elevator after it let go it's grasp. Fuck that outdoorsman shit.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

I grew up deer hunting (rifle) with my dad and both of my grandfathers. Always found it boring as hell. Get up early, sit on your ass and freeze, repeat. The real challenge here, IMO, is patience. It's almost like golf in that regard.

Eventually I was deemed old enough to go bird hunting, which completely changed things for me.. The dogs are going crazy. You're running after them. Gunpowder and cigar smoke fill the air. Obviously marksmanship is important, but training and working with the dogs adds an entirely different layer to things. My Brittany was the best dog I've ever had.

Sometimes I feel guilt for not carrying on the legacy of deer hunting within the family. When I lived up north, the deer would literally walk up to the porch. There's no sport in that. Plus, I kind of hate venison. I can't in good conscience take an easy "kill" for something that'll go to waste just because my forefathers did it.

That said, I'd love to do actual big game hunting. My dream has always been to hunt Cape Buffalo or Rhinos in Africa, but I'd settle for Elk or Bear closer to home.

Expand full comment
S2kChris's avatar

When I was younger, I asked my FIL why he loved deer hunting so much. I said it sure sounded miserable being cold and quiet in a tree for hours and hours covered in deer piss. He said “I have a wife and three daughters, anything that requires hours of silence is great.”

Now I have a wife and two daughters and I enjoy deer hunting. Honestly the hunt itself is OK, I do love the solitude and connection with nature. But what I love more is the work leading up to it, the working on stands and trying to read the woods and farming food plots and other hard work with likeminded men. That’s the real reward. As well as the marksmanship angle, anything with firearms I enjoy.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Do you pheasant hunt or just the orange guys?

Expand full comment
S2kChris's avatar

I’ve been wanting to get into pheasant or duck hunting, but have to start from scratch. Some buddies from skeet and I have been talking about doing it. But I bumbled into deer hunting on level 10/10 (private land access, built out stands, lots of willing mentors, etc etc) and would be starting at 0/10 for bird hunting. Doesn’t mean I won’t but the barriers to entry are much higher. I’ve been toying with getting into bow hunting for deer in addition to gun hunting, problem is Sept/Oct is much busier for me (kids sports and budget season for work) than mid-late November when gun season runs.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

See, I can get on with that you describe. There is real work being put in there.

I said this below, but I take offense to the guys who just throw bags of corn on the ground all year and then set up a blind 50' away come fall and "nail" a deer with their crossbow. Maybe it's a Michigan thing, but I find nothing tough or cool about that.

FWIW, that seems to be the preferred way to hunt for the <50 crowd around here. Even though it was kind of boring when I was a kid, at least they did actual hunting.

Expand full comment
Mozzie's avatar

Doesn't MI allow crossbows during archery season? If yes, that might be part of it.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

First free minute today was 8:49 pm. Walking in the woods for a few hours sounds amazing

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I want to go bird hunting. Ive never been and my networking skills are on the low side. I did join the aurora gun club if the other acf member here ever wants to shoot

Expand full comment
Steve Ward's avatar

You better make the perfect shot with those, otherwise you will just mightily piss off a Cape Buffalo or Rhino.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

The risk is the appeal, IMO. That's what makes it a worthwhile endeavor. It's not just being 110% confident in your shot, but doing so under pressure. Not to mention the type of rifle you have to use for that kind of game.

I try not to disparage deer hunting, but I see modern deer hunting as more deer harvesting than anything else. Maybe it's a Michigan thing, but guys will throw down bait all year in a few spots and throw up a trail camera nearby.

Come fall, they'll throw up a tree stand or blind ~10 yards from the bait pile(s). The deer will walk up to the same pile it's eaten off of all year and then the guy will shoot it. To me, there's no sport in that and . If you are doing it to feed your family, by all means to ahead. I don't see it being anything worth bragging about.

Expand full comment
S2kChris's avatar

Where we hunt baiting is illegal. So the work is before the hunt, finding game trails, determining how to locate stands, building and maintaining food plots, etc etc. So yeah, you show up, hop in the stand, and shoot the deer when it shows up, but it’s a lot like that old joke about the wise old guy showing up to fix the machine by tapping it with a hammer for $10k; tap the hammer $10, knowing where to tap, $9,990.

Expand full comment
Doug's avatar

I grew up bird hunting with my dad and brother. We also ran black Labradors in field trials. About 10 minutes of fun just crammed into 10-12 hour days. I was always cold cause I was always growing out of clothes. I stopped going hunting in my 20's but a V flight of geese overhead always makes me smile. A black lab is asleep next to me on the sofa as I right this now. My brother still hunts and I love to hear about his hunts.

Expand full comment
Amelius Moss's avatar

"About 10 minutes of fun just crammed into 10-12 hour days."

So like autocross.

Expand full comment
Doug's avatar

Although I have not autocrossed in decades, I could be talked into it. But not the hunting

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

GOD DAMN IT YOU BEAT ME TO IT

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

You forgot standing out in a sea of asphalt for an hour chasing cones while other people had fun in their cars.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Just dont die in the shitter ☠️

Expand full comment
Ice Age's avatar

Is that why soyboys all have beards?

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Shaving kinda sucks

Expand full comment
MD Streeter's avatar

I may be in the top five least manly men here and I keep sideburns but... This week I decided shaving sucks enough that I might go with a beard again for a little while. I'm going to have to trim my sideburns down this weekend to match it up, but at least that'll get me out of having to shave for three or so months.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I basically use a wahl peanut every 3-4 weeks to take my beard back down to a 5 o'lock shadow and restart the process. In the winter, I'll go until it starts to itch.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

That’s what I do. I grew a beard right after high school so I could get into bars without being carded. It was a different world back then. In high school we would go to the Mexican neighborhood nearby and buy booze at the liquor store where the clerk was behind bulletproof glass and they would put your purchase in a small plexiglass revolving door to get it to you with no contact. We would wear our high school jackets, too. They would sell to anyone who could reach the counter.

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

essentially

Expand full comment
JPDFR's avatar

I believe it is to better accentuate a barely present jawline…

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

or create a jawline from nothing

Expand full comment
Henry C.'s avatar

And cover the lack of a defined chin or multiple chins

Expand full comment
Hex168's avatar

This is what I always suspect when I see a full beard.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Most people with sports cars arent racing them either. It’s fun to cosplay

Expand full comment
Mozzie's avatar

Conversely no one cosplays a suburban dad with a minivan.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I guess it wouldn’t be cosplaying but id have no issues driving a minivan.

Expand full comment
Henry C.'s avatar

I'd drive a minivan if I had 4 more young kids. But that would mean a sister wife.

Expand full comment
Fat Baby Driver's avatar

I was the real deal.

Expand full comment
Ice Age's avatar

The more I see the C8, the more I'm convinced the C5 is the aesthetic high-water mark for Vettes.

But more to the point, I can't shake the feeling that the C8's rear-engineness exists for the exact same reason the S550 Mustang got an IRS: TO SHUT THE GODDAMN AUTOMOTIVE PRESS THE HELL UP. The C8 looks like a fat, jagged Ferrari 458, the sort of car I scribbled in my math notebook in 9th grade when I liked cars but didn't really understand them.

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

much like the mid engine 911 rsr it feels like a depressing concession to the laws of physics in the pursuit of lower lap times and better vehicle dynamics

nearly pointless on the street

Expand full comment
Sherman McCoy's avatar

The RSR wasn’t a street car.

It was a very clever interpretation of the ACO’s GTE rule book by Frank Steffen-Walliser. He could follow the letter of the law re: engine position by turning the flat six around by 180 degrees to give the car a bigger rear diffuser.

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

entirely correct as usual but my point remains

moving that much mass toward the centre in all likeliness had a positive effect on the handling of the car and they were a clever lot for figuring that one out

Expand full comment
Sherman McCoy's avatar

It was really done for the diffuser length and tire wear (particularly important when double- and triple-stinting at endurance races).

Expand full comment
Colin's avatar

Still feels like an admission that the rear engine is inferior to the mid engine

Expand full comment
Sherman McCoy's avatar

There would be no 911s racing anywhere that mattered / involved factory money without BOP.

The GT3 rules mandate closer adherence to the road cars on which they’re based (vs the now sunset GTE rules), so the 911s are still rear-engined in those classes.

BOP allows a (GT3-classed) Mustang to compete heads up against a McLaren 720S.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

The C8 architecture exists for two reasons. Electrification capability and better performance numbers. Electrification has been achieved with the E Ray, and it will progress from there. I think there was no manual option because it would just get in the way of further electrification. With the rear mid engine placement, the weight balance has shifted to a definite rear bias, which gave the marketing team the 0-60 numbers they wanted (the C7 was front mid engined and had a 50/50 weight balance).

As to the looks, it’s all subjective. I’m truly happy for anyone who owns a C8, because I’ll bet they’re fun to drive. They’re not my cup of tea, because the design is just too busy for me. There are so many lines and surfaces my eye just doesn’t know where to go, so it’s unsettling.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

Let's just call it what it is: GM is full of shit. They will talk about the take rate for manual C7s while also ignoring the demographics of C7 owners. In the next sentence, they'll talk about how they're targeting younger buyers with the C8. I can't speak for everyone my age, but no younger enthusiasts that I know personally care to own an automatic performance car.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

I agree. I also think that the lack of a manual is a finance decision. They just don’t want to spend the money on a manual transmission option, especially when the electrification budget is eating up limited dollars. It’s amazing the Corvette even exists considering the poor management of that company. You just know they’re going to introduce a Corvette SUV.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

Corvette SUV? I think Mark Reuss mentioned that in an interview a few years back. It seems to have been erased from the internet. Weird.

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

Oh, it's out there.

Expand full comment
Chairworthiness's avatar

New conspiracy theory: GM ordered the hit on archive.org to wipe the remaining records of the "What If"

Expand full comment
Ice Age's avatar

Gotta get the nonenthusiast mom demographic onboard the brand wagon.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Lamborghini has one….

Expand full comment
Flashman's avatar

“brand wagon”. lol

Expand full comment
Mozzie's avatar

Although I don't disagree, I have to wonder how the CT5-V Blackwing manual option made it to market. Silo teams? I assume, not knowing much about GM, that the Corvette and Blackwings would be under the same umbrella.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

It still frosts me that the Cadillac got a 6 speed and I have the 7 speed in my C7. There are certain shifts, especially downshifts, that can be indecisive because of one too many gears in the 7 speed.

Cadillac missed an opportunity to not have a lower priced non-aspirated V8 in their CT5 line up. The V8 was available and the suspension work was already done, why not have an LT1 CT5 that isn’t $100k? Typical GM, you wonder if they really want to sell desirable cars.

Expand full comment
AJS's avatar

An LT2 CT4 is the dream!

Expand full comment
Steve Ward's avatar

They don't. Everything they do is in worship to the holy CAFE mountain.

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

Yeah don't make a joke about that at work or GM might call your CEO and get you fired.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

At least you never had to ride in a Corvette’s passenger seat while that knucklehead drove! The engineer who rode along in the 235 mph run must have really needed his job to have taken that ride.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

Purdue grads aren't the brightest.

Expand full comment
AK47isthetool's avatar

That strikes me as an absurdly needless risk. Why was the he (I assume it was a he) there? Moral support? Was he going to engineer a solution if it got squirrely above 205?

Expand full comment
Chuck S's avatar

We absolutely should get every ACF'er to contribute whatever money is required and pull whatever string is necessary to get Jack behind the wheel of a a ZR1 and have him top Reuss' number.

Expand full comment
Henry C.'s avatar

And emissions, and maybe CAFE.

Expand full comment
Chuck S's avatar

Is the lack of a manual also a CAFE decision to hit a fuel efficiency and emissions benchmark? I don't actually know, just asking...

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

The C8 base engine is 15 city and 27 highway. The base C7 automatic was 15 city and 26 highway. The C7 manual was 15 city and 26 highway. It appears the highway numbers are due to cylinder deactivation. However, I have never let my C7 go into cylinder deactivation mode due to GM’s poor track record with displacement on demand. Plus who buys a Corvette to not run all 8 cylinders in the V8? That being said, I’ve seen 30 mpg on the highway without using the cylinder deactivation (it’s triggered by going into Eco mode, which I’ve never done).

Expand full comment
AJS's avatar

You're right, manual C7s sold in almost equal numbers to the COMBINED total sales (manual and PDK) of the 911, Boxter, and Cayman between 2014 and '19.

Expand full comment
Nplus1's avatar

Similar issue to how they can't justify a Camaro that sells 50k units in a bad year. How does Mazda afford the Miata?

Expand full comment
Keith's avatar

The boomer problem could be fixed. But sales would tank short term. Long term you could build a new customer base though. It would have to be impossibly low, loud and cramped. Like C4 style buckets or smaller. Make it like American eagle, where no one fat with a bad knee could even get in or out.

Manual only.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

And ditch the golf bag requirement.

Expand full comment
Keith's avatar

I feel like that and the stowable roof panels might be why the C8 looks like it does instead of a McLaren or 488

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

I thought the roof panel went somewhere that was not the weird cargo box in the back?

Honestly, I went to the roadshow event at my local dealer and sat in the car for about 30 seconds. Once I found myself kind of cramped, I stopped paying attention to the other details.

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

The Corvette should be a C6 with your choice of small blocks, at or around $49,999. That's the only way for it to stay relevant.

Expand full comment
KoR's avatar

Relevant how? They sold over 50k of the fucking things last year, and will probably do more this year. That is INSANE volume for this type of car.

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

Relevant to buyers under the age of 60. The next group of enthusiasts is significantly poorer than the current group, and they might never catch up.

Expand full comment
KoR's avatar
Oct 17Edited

Has the Corvette ever been priced for budget enthusiasts? It starts now about where the Mustang ends, and that seems broadly, historically correct…

Beyond that, even, they’ve always been an old man’s car. Red, automatic convertibles have been the backbone of sales and parking lot car shows since as long as I’ve been alive at least.

I’d have to double check this, but isn’t the C8 attracting younger buyers than the C7 ever did as well?

Expand full comment
Ice Age's avatar

Slushboxes suck. Electrified slushboxes need Jesus to heal their lameness.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I wish my car was a manual. Its the first auto as my primary car in 17ish years but it’s got a great transmission for an automatic. Shockingly good. I am surprised by how not annoyed i am by it

Expand full comment
Andy's avatar

I really like how in sport mode it fakes being a dual clutch transmission, sort of a double trick on a manual.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

It does a really good job faking it. I'm pretty much 95% in sports mode unless it's a longish highway trip.

Expand full comment
Ice Age's avatar

Let's pair the stick with the base engine ONLY and claim nobody wants manuals.

Expand full comment
Chuck S's avatar

how does the "targeting younger buyers" idea square with the fact the average buyer is between 55 and 64 and the biggest group of buyers is 61-64? (the exact numbers may be off; I'm going from memory, but the point remains - the typical buyer is in AARP territory).

Expand full comment
Andy's avatar

I stumbled on a Corvette weekend in Maine last summer, apparently a large annual event. I'm in the average age range you listed and was a youngster there. C8s made up maybe 10 percent of the crowd, and I didn't see many drivers who looked like they missed a manual. Bad knees and hips will do that to you or so I hear.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

I agree with you. For at least the past two generations, GM has said something to the effect of "We're targeting younger buyers with this generation and shedding our geriatric image."

Which really translates to, "Our buyers are old as dirt, but we're going to pass it off as a young guy's car so they can live in this fantasy world where they're Todd and Buzz."

Expand full comment
Ice Age's avatar

Who are these "younger buyers" and how can they afford a hundred-thousand-dollar Corvette?

Expand full comment
Jeff Madson's avatar

Maybe not the spec you want but you can buy a 23-24 Corvette for $70k easy.

Expand full comment
Nplus1's avatar

Targeting those young buyers who NEED two sets of golf clubs to fit in the rear trunk.

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

This is just anecdotal, but I don't know any guy around my age that plays golf AND is into sports cars. The golf demographic is solidly the "I peaked in HS/Saturdays Are For The Boys" camp that almost exclusively leases blacked-out Ram 1500s or some sort of F-150 with stupid tape graphics.

Expand full comment
Nplus1's avatar

I wouldn’t describe most Corvette owners as sports car people. They have a Corvette because that’s the aspirational American car. Anecdotally, I used to share an office at work with a guy who owns a black auto C4 coupe. Big time golfer. Way more enthusiastic about that than the car.

Expand full comment
AJS's avatar

Yeah, I sold 'Vettes for a while and probably about 70% of the customers "just wanted a Corvette" or got one because it's what you do at 60 when you've been working hard your whole life. The other 30% were diehards which I think lines up pretty well with the demographics for Mustangs, Chargers, and the like. The majority of owners just want to hang their hat on having something "cool." In general, there's nothing wrong with it, but selling to those people as a real enthusiast got old real quick.

Expand full comment
Jeff Madson's avatar

I know lots, heck I am one. But I don't want a Corvette.

Expand full comment
Donkey Konger's avatar

poignant observation!

Nearly every milennial man I know who is good at golf drives whatever practical econobox fits the budget. The golf guy i know with the coolest car (relative to the group) drives the new Lexus GX. IIRC, he was on the early side for delivery, and had complaints

Expand full comment
Andy's avatar

There are several Corvettes, 911s, Miatas, and the like at my tennis club. Anecdotal for sure. I do think golfers are fatter on the whole.

Expand full comment
Keith's avatar

I don’t understand where it got so fat. If I were the chief engineer I’d have a report of every parts group of the C6 Z06 vs the C8 made post haste to figure out where 500lbs came from.

Expand full comment
Ataraxis's avatar

Now add electric motors to the mix.

Expand full comment
Steve Ward's avatar

ever increasing stupid "safety" regulations.

Expand full comment
Chuck S's avatar

a 14-speaker Bose stereo that probably sounds like ass (no highs? no lows? must be Bose!) didn't help...

Expand full comment
Nplus1's avatar

I read that ridiculously huge center tunnel was reserved all for batteries from the start so that makes sense.

Expand full comment
AJS's avatar

For modern 'Vette design, I tend to favor the models on either side of the C5, but it's hard not to give the overall nod to the midyears.

Expand full comment
Nplus1's avatar

C5s sit a little too high. C6 is the cleanest design.

Expand full comment
Ice Age's avatar

The C5 has pop-up headlights. And doesn't have that nasty kink in the beltline at the back of the door.

But I do like it, especially the Grand Sport. Those two side vents complete the car.

Expand full comment
Dan's avatar

C6

Expand full comment
John Marks's avatar

Great stuff, Jack.

BTW, re: "There is a fine American tradition of effeminate or sickly young boys," my first serious high-school girlfriend once quietly said to me, "John, my mother thinks that you are rather effeminate."

I replied, "Well, compared to her... I AM!!!"

OK, seeing as I do have a background in Strategic Studies (my uncle was in charge of training for the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, and I also studied Shakespeare), I fearlessly state:

Y'ALL ALL NOW GET READY FOR A 21st-CENTURY "ET TU, BRUTE?" (pronounced "Broo-tay") MOMENT:

1) Trump wins.

2) Trump gets sworn in.

3) Within 30 days, Vice President Vance sadly reports that DJT has had an incapacitating stroke, and that the 24th Amendment has been employed. Our prayers are with DJT and his family.

4) Vance proudly introduces his First Lady, who has been waiting in the wings.

Seriously, there are only two people shaking hands between Stalin and me. Few things surprise me.

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?"

That was 1940s radio... not Shakespeare.

john

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

"3) Within 30 days, Vice President Vance sadly reports that DJT has had an incapacitating stroke"

or his assassins finally get a lucky shot off

given how well that guy can dodge bullets maybe he really could have gotten through vietnam unscathed

Expand full comment
Steve Ward's avatar

nope, he would have been fragged

Expand full comment
Chuck S's avatar

yes, but it would have been the greatest fragging in this history of warfare, a truly beautiful and spectacular fragging the likes of which had never been seen before and surely never will again.

Expand full comment
Scott's avatar

As a C8 owner I am intrigued by this ZR-1 version that goes really fast. I’m not going to buy one because my C8 is enough to get me 2 miles into town and drive around at 35 mph before my two mile slog back to the ‘hood. Now that C8s are depreciating maybe I get a hi-po version but the recent requirement of sticker+ and waiting years didn’t interest me.

The ZR-1 isn’t meant to be a track rat and its weight (and the weight of the base C8) is regrettable. A manual would be nice but no one bought them on previous recent Corvettes. The next best option is arguably some sort of 911 for way more money that isn’t really faster and is getting a little portly itself.

Supposedly there is a Corvette “Zora” coming that will take the ZR-1 powertrain and add the E-Ray front electric motors and small battery. Also not a track car, but the stats will be more of everything. Many will be wrecked in FL, TX and CA.

The Harris campaign should be embarrassing for all blue voters, but the left doesn’t get embarrassed unless it loses. We’ll see. I keep hearing that I am a racist if I don’t vote for this lady who can’t tell me what she believes now, and can’t bother to do a difficult interview (as I write this her appearance with Brett Baier should be airing on Fox). To me she is a coward, and also a moron, and I’m not voting for a coward and moron who can only talk (with limited coherence) about why a woman should be allowed to murder her unborn child anytime she wants. I hope she loses, I don’t want to hear her annoying voice for the next 4 years.

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

remember

if you dont cast your vote for the brown communist woman youre literally a member of the klan

yes even if youre not white

Expand full comment
Chuck S's avatar

what if you vote for the orange fascist man?

(teasing... )

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

then youre literally a nazi and its not only acceptable but encouraged to inflict physical harm unto you

yes even if youre not white

isnt politics fun

Expand full comment
Henry C.'s avatar

That's the special part.

If voting for my personal interests, even marginally so given uniparty shenanigans, or at the very least for someone that those who hate me also hate, and that makes me racistantiwhateverphobic, I don't care.

Expand full comment
S2kChris's avatar

I saw a meme where someone showed a pic of a sign that said “Trump Supporter” and then it said here’s what I think when I see that and it showed the same sign but it said “Racist” and someone commented “yo where can I get that second sign”

Expand full comment
sgeffe's avatar

That fucking nasal voice is vomit-inducing!

Expand full comment
Jeff Zekas's avatar

Democrats here in Oregon wanted to ban natural gas, until they were reminded that every restaurant in town uses natural gas, 2/3 of the population uses natural gas, so if they banned natural gas, they would basically destroy the economy and ruin the lives of most citizens.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Feature not a bug for most

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

Except the revolution needs its fancy restaurants!

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I always love how these guys think they’ll be lenin and not trotsky

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

DIG THE FUCKING TRENCH

"but i thought i would be reading gay intersectional bipoc slam poetry at the vegan coop"

Expand full comment
CLN's avatar

what's your dirt doing in his ditch?

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

"I thought I'd be playing inclusive video games for the revolution!"

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

given the massive and immediate failures of concord and the like you wont even be able to do that

Expand full comment
Drunkonunleaded's avatar

There was a literal Reddit thread that was like this awhile back. Something to the effect of "What will you do once we implement our utopia?"

Most of the answers were like what you describe. Someone with an actual brain chimed in and said that you'd more or less be working hard labor or face execution and they were downvoted into oblivion.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

I'd still be doing taxes. I'd just get paid a lot less.

Expand full comment
Chuck S's avatar

at least as far as Eugene and Ashland were concerned, wasn't the ban limited to new residential construction? that's been the case here in California when cities have attempted it. No one was talking about ripping gas out of existing homes and businesses.

Expand full comment
Sir Morris Leyland's avatar

In the long run, as with banning new ICE cars, is there a difference?

Would Hitler be viewed differently if he had "merely" sterilized members of groups he disliked but otherwise allowed them to continue their normal lives and occupations?

Expand full comment
Amelius Moss's avatar

JFK and Nixon both saw combat in the Pacific during WW2 and began their relationship first meeting for a debate of the Taft-Hartley bill as first term congressman in 1947 and then spent the evening on the train back to DC from Pittsburgh privately discussing issues. Trump and Harris first met on the night of their debate. I assume the same for Vance and Walz.

Expand full comment
Mpactwrench's avatar

Compare Siler gushing over Governor Walz’ clumsy gunnery to him school-marming Senator Cruz. “Cruz is not only setting a bad example, but he’s also demonstrating a lower alacrity for gun handling than you’d expect from someone claiming to be a gun enthusiast.” https://gizmodo.com/ted-cruz-really-was-pointing-his-gun-at-his-friends-1740591485

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

good catch

im floored that siler might be biased somehow

Expand full comment
Mpactwrench's avatar

He wrote at least two pieces about this incident. https://gizmodo.com/hey-ted-cruz-youre-holding-your-gun-backwards-1740325931

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

One of the reasons people use an over under is it cant fire when the action is open and there are no shells in it. But mostly it’s cause theyre cool.

Expand full comment
S2kChris's avatar

I’ve seen some mild debate about this kind of thing, the flagging with a broken open O/U. For one thing, they sell little tabs to attach to your shoe to rest your gun muzzle on. People have said “well that doesn’t seem safe, firearm rules, etc.”. And they’re not wrong, but a broken open shotgun literally cannot fire. The barrel is just a piece of metal pipe open at both ends. It’s impossible. So it’s a bit of pedantry to say he was really flagging people behind him. If he was at my club and doing that, I’d tell him “hey man, people do this the other direction, muzzle pointed down in front of you.” But it’s not straight down, so you’re still flagging people right in the dick. Because the gun is broken open, no one cares. It’s more of a “hey you look silly when it’s backwards” than “hey you’re doing something dangerous.” Because it’s 100% not dangerous.

Expand full comment
Boom's avatar

I'm disappointed in you Jack with being complicit in the Mosler Bullshit.

Also this guy you're supposedly talking to, doesn't sound on the up and up himself either.

Why am I not surprised though that the CUSTOMERs also got cheated with the cars they got, as not truly being certified to any real contemporary standard?

This kind of sums up my disillusion about the bullshit people fall for from boutique manufacturers.

I know I'm in the minority here, but that Corvette top speed run was VERY LIKELY in production trim with all the equipment as standard. I'd like receipts on the claim about 'special aero trim' if you want to claim that.

I'm again in the minority when I say the C8 is the better Corvette compared to the C7. Its for idiots like me. Sorry for all the old farts past their prime who can only reference an old muscle car and handle 'so much' performance on the street.

There is something distinct about a mid engined car in the way it changes direction that any owner of an S2000 has felt partially and a Lotus owner knows thoroughly.

I give GM credit for making it accessible and affordable, without the STUPID unreliability of the incumbents that use that layout.

Fuck Mark Reuss. He's a clown, but then again this is the REAL America where people are executives due to nepotism.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

It’s probably a fine car. It’s just ugly

Expand full comment
Boom's avatar

Its all relative. The C7 didn't exactly give me erections either.

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Im partial to the c6. Also like the c5. C4 is ugly.

Expand full comment
Boom's avatar

in terms of ugliness

C4>c5>c7>c6>c8>C3.

Its all subjective.

The C4 and the C5 were also pieces of shit on the inside.

Expand full comment
Speed's avatar

knew c3 would be peak

i must own one before i die and preferably not immediately before

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

Theyre pretty. Pretty crappy. The c5 was junk on the inside but it was fine. It was a 350hp v8 that felt indestructible. I havent driven a manual transmission that stocky since

Expand full comment
Boom's avatar

Its the only one that I ACTUALLY think is pretty.

Expand full comment
Ice Age's avatar

Eh, I'd rather have an unbreakable car I can keep running via trips to VatoZone and Walmart than some "well-appointed" Euro-whatever with a plastic water pump and imaginary bearing clearances.

Expand full comment
Boom's avatar

Might I interest you in a Geo Metro then?

Expand full comment
Henry C.'s avatar

I like the C1 and C3 and think the C8 is ok. Fite me.

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

"I'm disappointed in you Jack with being complicit in the Mosler Bullshit"

How am I complicit? I'm just providing information to my readers. I wasn't involved in promoting the Raptor or any other Mosler project.

"I'd like receipts on the claim about 'special aero trim' if you want to claim that"

I live to serve. From the press release at https://news.chevrolet.com/newsroom.detail.html/Pages/news/us/en/2024/oct/1015-zr1.html

"The ZR1 coupe which set the record had a standard chassis and aero package, with a standard spoiler with short wicker, carbon fiber ground effects,"

The question is whether you can get the small spoiler/gurney/whatever from the factory on a new ZR1, and whether "standard" here means "ZR1 standard equipment" or "C8 standard equipment." In the C7 days there were, as i recall, five different levels of rear aero.

Thus my comment about possibly needing to sort it out at the dealership.

Expand full comment
Boom's avatar

"I am ashamed that I participated in that. I knew, but didn’t say anything. No longer."

This leads me to believe you were complicit? Am I failing reading comprehension here? Especially the SECOND sentence?

As long as its a standard trim you can get from the factory I don't get what the whining is about.. reading it for myself in context, it clearly is the STANDARD Aero package.. I get that you want to downplay it because of the person driving it, but perhaps the car is just good and you should be happy it was engineered and built in the USA for a FRACTION of a Bugatti's price?

Expand full comment
Scott A's avatar

“He sent the following information to at least one major magazine. I doubt they’ll publish any of it, so I’m sharing it with you here.“

These are someone elses words jack is sharing

Expand full comment
Boom's avatar

Whoops, I did not take it to mean so, but I'm not sure I misunderstood. My apologies if I did.

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

I'm going to correct my article to make it plainer.

Expand full comment
Boom's avatar

I'm sorry upon re-readinf it its plenty clear... My apologies. I failed...

Expand full comment
Jack Baruth's avatar

That's what James wrote. Not me. The quoted section is what he sent me.

Expand full comment