MotoGP in Buriram last weekend keeps the competition close. In qualifying 2 both Jorge Martin and Marc Marquez crashed which sent them tumbling down to 3rd and 5th on the grid, as they had already set fairly hot laps. A pleasant turn of events for each as they have both blown Q2s this season. Bagnaia wins pole position with a new all time lap record, Bastianini close behind, and Bez in fourth. Quartararo put the Yamaha in 6th for, I believe, his best qualifying this year.
In the sprint Jorge Martin's mad charge from 3rd led to him running wide and after some fighting he finished second behind Bastianini who was on it that day. Bagnaia settled for 3rd, unable to match pace and unwilling to take on more risk, Martin's second place put him two points ahead for a 22 point lead.
Disgusting to report this - Ducati finished 1-8th which drives home the advantage fielding so many machines can make. I'm looking forward to them having fewer running next year.
The race took place in rainy conditions. This is usually when any rider can win, and where Bagnaia has struggled. I believe he has zero rain wins. Marquez is often strong in these scenarios. Martin gets a great start and leads for a short while before blunders braking into turns allow Bagnaia and Marquez throigh. Throughout the race Marquez is harassing Bagnaia who is now holding on to first place. Martin is chasing the two when Marquez crashes after nearly getting the bike back on its wheels during the crash. He would remount and run back from DFL to 11th for 5 points. Bagnaia and Martin held their places with Jorge clearly unwilling to push for everything as he had a number of moments indicating treacherous grip levels. Pedro Acosta finished third after a terrible run of DNFs.
Bagnaia brings five points back and heads to Malaysia 17 points down. 1-2 for race and sprint is an 8 point change which means Bagnaia and Martin each have no room for error with Bagnaia needing someone to finish ahead of Martin even if Pecco wins everything.
Wasn't planning to watch the Mexican GP because the start was at 1.30 AM here, but I somehow woke up at 1.25 so decided to watch a few laps, which became most of the race. Yet another one where the action could honestly be described as riveting. Paid the price the next morning at work, but it was worth it.
Congrats on the Ledges outing, JB! I have a question, does running the SR8 get a little boring when there is no other directly comparable machine in your class?
'I have a question, does running the SR8 get a little boring when there is no other directly comparable machine in your class?'
I get that question a lot, so I'm going to pin the answer. Which is "no", but I'll explain why.
0. After a total of nine race weekends in the car, I still feel that I'm learning how to extract maximum speed from the SR8. It was much easier and faster to get used to the PR6, largely because the delta between straight speed and corner speed is less and it's so reassuring to drive. The SR8 is short on tire, has fussy aero, and has to be driven almost on fingertips lest you put yourself in a bad situation. So right now, merely running it for time in the company of very fast formula cars is satisfying enough.
1. I can't really afford to run the car anywhere I'd be bashing the fenders, like in Radical Cup. I'd need another 20-30 grand a year for repairs and maintenance, assuming I don't end up in a tire wall, and that's not in the cards right now.
2. I raced hardcore, fender-banging, literally-pass-someone-over-the-manhole-in-the-Corkscrew classes for almost twenty years. Not that I've had my lifetime fill of close-coupled, in-pack drama, but it's nice to take a few years away and focus on being a disciplined and effective driver. I've always been good at *racing* people, but I haven't always been good at getting the maximum out of my car.
And, finally:
3. At the speeds of which this car is capable, the only 52-year-old who should be bored by it is David Coulthard.
I call them Siberian-Americans. Anthropologist Elizabeth Weiss, who has been professionally cancelled for daring to practice anthropology, has a book out called On the Warpath: My Battles With Indians, Pretendians, and Woke Warriors
I never saw any problems with political commentary in your posts - in fact you are one of the more fair and nuanced commentators around these parts. What's the real reason for moving this to "Thunderdome"?
I think the problem is that comments about other topics in combination posts get lost/drowned out in the political discussion. It’s not a content issue, just a separation one.
I keep hearing that the political stuff smothers the other discussions whenever it appears -- so people who want to talk about a watch or a car have to wade through 500 comments about Trump or Harris on the way through.
"Any topics that deal with explicit political candidates, rather than ideas, will be sent separately as Thunderdome."
As someone for whom the ideas matter way more than the candidates, especially since I only approve of 1 out of the 4 persons in contention, this new structure may need further elaboration to keep me from faux pas-ing.
Has anyone published an actual weight for the 911t?
I don’t get why porxhe does not just produce more of the cars people actually wnat to buy 911 st various gt3s and gt4rs.
The lesson is you can sell a lot of
Pseudo sports cars(most new 911s) but there are a lot of people who only wnat the real thing.
The mad rush to bland cars has opened the doors for singer and also companies like Honda with the civic type R and everyone in between who bothers which is scant few.
Clearly there is an underlying underserved market for “real” performance cars as opposed to fast gt cars.
But then Ferrari hasn’t suffered from
Making handbags for men
Porche is now the Rolex of cars, a symbol you made x, and Ferrari the Patek.
Whither the true driver and enthusiast.
Unless you’re paying well over the notional msrp and prepared for a car with 40-100k worth of pointless cf and colored sticking. Forget about porche
It’s one thing keeping market tension by not overproducing but radically underproducing just makes dealers rich.
One would think the vw overlords should be interested in sales to keep
I was staggered to find out the other day, a 718 Boxster Style Edition (which comes in Rubystone and with a manual box) is only £60k. Ok you only get the four cylinder but still. That, pound for pound would seem to be best deal in the entire range.
Probably cant order one by now, production ends in 2025.
When you could the best bang for your buck was the Boxster/Cayman S, 350HP turbo-4. Cost anywhere from $80,000-$100,000 depending on when you got it. 6-speed or PDF.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the 470HP Vette will be marginally quicker to 60, so if that's what you want, along with a foot more length and width (to the car, not your penis) it's true you can have it.
If I want 0-60 I'll drop the clutch on my ZX14 and hope for the best. On a road course, the C8 far outclasses anything short of a GT4 Cayman. That being said, I put 60,000 miles doing overnight drives in a Boxster. I know it has real world virtues the Vette doesn't match. And I wish they'd sell it, and the 911, on that basis.
Could also be because Sean dislikes Porsche and won't give them the dignity of actually writing the name. My finance and I do this as a joke when we talk about people or things we find annoying. Or we add a "B" somewhere in the word.
That's a very good point. What is the real enthusiast's car of 2024? I'm not talking for Instagram points, but for someone who wants a car to actually drive?
"they really need to out that new inline 6 in one"
gonna have to disagree with you on that one
the point of a miata is a light simple and cheapish sportscar and trying to fit another two cylinders in there and then make everything else work with the added weight and power wouldnt likely make it a better miata
I think the Miata is crying out for a redo of the turbo. They only tried it for two years and it was pretty half-assed. The price of all cars is fairly high now, so I think the market could probably bear what it would cost to certify a variant motor. If they could stay within 200lbs and get something over 250+whp they would be in another league without breaking the bank.
"slightly" is doing a lot of work here. The internet is telling me that the Fiata was a 1.4l making a ground pounding 160hp. A 2.0 or 2.3 Ecoboost can almost double that, although I don't know what the weight penalty would be. There would also be a tax in dollars and pounds for upping the chassis stiffness and the brakes. Nonetheless it would be substantially less on both counts than anything involving increasing the number of cylinders.
As someone who had the 1.5, can confirm that it is amazing fun and can be thrashed like the proverbial rented mule. Just about brisk enough too, if a little buzzy on highways. Selling it was the dumbest thing I ever did.
For road I drive one of the new 4cyl Alfa gulias. More tha enough power for the road and by far the best steering of any modern car by a long shot. It also has suspension that articulates with great shocks to hold it all
Together.
If the old lpre china lotus had built a sedan this would be it
The first time I drove a Giulia my I was impressed by how good the steering was and that overall the car was what a BMW 3-Series used to be. Seeing a Giulia on the road is always a treat.
Also have a e46 m3 which I got new and just turned 36k. I found that car as delivered had a flat area on the powerband and also just made noise above 7k rpm . It also had classic German suspension tuning which was both hard and with too much body lean.
Above. 120 it would gain speed but not accelerate if that makes sense . A csl remap didn’t change the headline numbers but really let the motor run as it should and then I saw the magic.
I hear during Covid that car could accelerate past 170 going up a long incline and was still pulling hard .
The Alfa is better in almost every way dynamically but the na bmw 6 has a precision and magic no turbo car can match.
So many moderns lack real steering or throttle precision it’s like 50% of the equation is missing despite the power. Tha Alfa has power but the motor is meh, fortunately the rest is great and still
There
I’ve driven a 992.1 carerra s on track. There is turbo mush if not lag and in general that car felt like there was a layer of cotton woo between you and the action, no matter how good the underlaying bits might be. Is the 911T different ? The Alfa though that still feels alive
I was momentarily entranced by the Quadrifoglio, wouldn't that be your jam?
I'm pretty happy with the motor in the S4, depending on the throttle map, it barely registers as a turbo. Makes good sounds too. Steering is a little dead though.
The quad is great but where are you going to use it , and it’s 2x the 4cyl which comes with same seats brakes etc.
I guess for my speed ya yas are mostly out on track and that’s a completely different car for that purpose.
Plus have one or two others for different itches. The guiia is more of a daily and even then often I take my 2010 v6 equinox because it’s smooth steers ok and completely unobtrusive
The 4cyl guika easily cruises at 100 will punch up to l140. But yeah money no object go for the quad.
I was thinking to maybe trade the guila for a new m2 but then the new bmws seem to have such insipid steering and the m2 still not really out the box trackable so what does it add besides excess acceleration on road. The guila over 4 years just works no issues , asks only for an oil change. But yes while that 4cyl motor does the job it totally lacks the sense of occasion alwe get from oter cars.
S4 also an awesome all
Rounder and useable road car, once again a sweet spot. Which gets me thinking of a rs3, they say the 5 cyl
Motor has to be experienced somewhere in life. But those cars like porches suffer from manufactured shortage and dealer markups . If you could get the wagon version here that might tilt
the balance. But Audi like Subaru hasn’t figured out that high performance buyer might prefer a wagon for the road.
I guess it all boils down to passion and practical which boils down to use and roads where used .
Or as the wife likes to say it’s like slippers different ones for different purposes. Guila s4 and a few others cover a lot
Of bases in one car.
Still on a Sunday am something. Far more focused seems appropriate or a motorcycle , and then For track if you really get to be pressing on very very few street legal cars work, and even then…
All of which is to say that for road use fun the most extreme version of a car might not be the best esp
If you’re dealing along the day with traffic and variable road surfaces.
I don't know about Sainz. He seems to have a couple of good weekends a year, rather than being a consistent challenger to Leclerc. And whatever Lewis brings to the Scuderia, you've got to admit there's a certain romance to it (and yes I know it was what Senna was going to as well before a stray suspension arm scuppered his plans, which is almost certainly why Lewis is doing it).
If Checo needs a job after this season I have a lawn that needs to be mowed all next summer as well as some flowers and trees to plant come springtime.
If I did hurt his feelings, I'm sure he'll feel better when he gets home to his beautiful family at the giant estate they live.
Liam Lawson will likely have a job next year.
$50/day+dinner and some cookies? Since I doubt Checo will take me up on the offer I'll be out there myself with a spade and 50 bags of mulch. I wish I was a plumber, too, so I could run a water line to the front of the house for another hose nozzle to water all the new stuff. We're getting a ginkgo tree, a Japanese maple, some winterberry bushes, probably creeping flox, wild roses (for low maintenance) and more lilacs. I'm afraid the lilacs we tried propagating this year won't come back next year.
If you have an automated sprinkler system check the box to see if there's a port where you can add a valve, a pressure reducer, and run a drip line. We did this over the summer with the help of an uncle and are enjoying fully automated luxury drip line watering.
Just make sure to clamp the lines or they blow off quite spectacularly/embarrassingly.
Henry is correct - blow the water out as winter prep which isn't difficult but is required if you live somewhere where it gets cold.
I know my set up is original to the house except for the newly added valve + pressure reducer. All Rainbird valves; waterproof/resilient grease cap wire connectors (there's water...), Orbit manifold with 4 ports (and four valves now connected to the control system in the garage via aforementioned grease caps).
The rough outline is gate valve between house main water line and outside feed to sprinklers -> Ball valve -> pair of ports that an airline adapter can be screwed onto -> backflow preventer valve -> ball valve -> manifold -> electronic valves -> pipe (we use flexible line because if it does have water and does freeze it might not shatter like PVC) -> risers -> sprinklers
Again - I just added a valve to an existing system which is much less involved and I also ran the drip line overground instead of underground as it can always be buried later. The major hardware stores have rough guides that give you an idea of how to do it as well, or if you have an uncle who literally does this for their living you can work with them!
ETA: There are pressure reducing valves or just inline pressure regulators that can sit after a valve to drop pressure and then neck down to the appropriate size for your main drip line runs. I think ours is 1" -> 3/4" -> big runs -> taps to 1/4" line for emitters
I don't think anyone in our neighborhood has an automated sprinkler system, but a drip line sounds so nice and labor-free (...once it's installed, at least). I wonder how much water would make it to the end for us, though. We have a 75' long stretch along our the sidewalk in front of our side yard we're going to be doing some serious planting along. It's a 2.5' slope at about 45-60 degrees that was a huge pain in the ass (and lower back) to mow when it was grass--well, weeds, really, but it will look a lot nicer when it's flowers and bushes and whatnot and it will never need mowing again. I'm thinking it's going to be watered by watering can for the upcoming summer. At least it'll get me outside.
An interim solution is a manual (or battery operated) feed running off an existing faucet to a drip line run. We are running at ~25PSI after the reducer and have it split just after the box for a ~30' run to the patio where there are some taps for various planter boxes and then what must be about 120' run around the south side, west side, and north side of the house with 10 (?) more little drip sprinklers and the like running off it. If you calculate how much water the various plants need you set the right GPM drip emitter and then set a timer such that the appropriate amount of water is delivered.
I was out to the ginkgo grove in Boyce VA last week and it was effing transcendent. Anyone who owns a car they like and lives within (their) striking distance and is open to being awestruck should head that way:
(Skip the food trucks: there’s good chow in Marshall and Upperville. Bake VA 601 into your route, irrespective of where you’re coming from. You're welcome)
I’m aware of the cynical marketing exercise that is the Carrera T, and I don’t care. To me, it’s important for one reason and one reason only, that you can get a stick shift non hybrid 6cyl 911 for semi reasonable money. I was worried that MT Porsches would be $300k+ after dealer markup etc if they were only in GT3T guise; this means I can have a stick 911 in a promotion or two, not wait for a lottery win.
I’m also aware of the cynical marketing exercise that is the Carrera T, and my wife does not care. Her 2013 brown 7-speed manual Carrera 4 has 95,000 miles and I want to replace it. At least I think so, I can fix a lot of problems for what it costs to swap old for new... But old German cars tend to explode at the ten year mark.
Fair enough. But for $135k you could get a really nice 993 Carrera 2S. Which will be worth what you paid for it ten years later, and which people would really envy.
Yup. And if I wanted a toy that would be the move. But if I just want a nice daily driver car, I wouldn’t buy a 993. I’ve always wanted to daily drive a (manual) 911. This seems like the best way.
Daily drive a very nice one now for well under $100k. Turn it into a your minor lottery win later, when the market stops dismissing it as a 996 and embraces it as Mezger’s masterpiece / “last pre-VW 911 turbo” and whatever other fetish fodder they start mining in 2026.
I’d do it myself but the damn thing has 8 (sic) oil pumps and I’m trying to buy some land in the valley so I can plant a ginkgo tree.
The current one does seem like a tool for tools, but a few years ago they made a Carrera T for the end-of-the-line 991, and I got one during the Biden-Covid years. That one cost about $100K, had the 7 speed, and was the last narrow-bodied Carrera. Same turbo-6 give or take a few horsepower, Race-Tex seats, poly side and rear glass, nice wheels. Can't say I loved it but I didn't mind it either. Quicker than it seemed on paper, made nice sounds, the shifter was decent (the 7th gear that they now deleted was strictly for mileage purposes, nobody used it). Sold it at a slight profit after 18 months or so. These are changing hands at around $100,000 give or take and they came in some great colors. Unlike the 992 it didn't seem ginormous in person.
Friend of mine was smart enough to order one of these in 2018. I asked him for first refusal the day he told me he placed the order. It's the only manual 911 to ever make it to the country, so I have no idea what body parts I'll need to sell when he decides to part with it (he'll probably want the equivalent of 200k plus USD, because that's what our market is like). Still, I'm damn well going to at least TRY to get it when the time comes.
Do we really think that this T isn't gonna have the dealer markup that the others have? I think the surely limited production manuals almost guarantees mark up.
I don't think the average guy or even Porsche owner is as discerning as you make them out to be on the subtle differences between the million different versions of the 911.
Oh that's nothing. I expressed a fondness for Magnum PI Ferraris in the presence of a V12 and its owner and you'd think I'd had taken a dump on the hood.
Men like that are like chicks are about handbags and shoes. The mere existence of something of their favored brand but remotely affordable to the plebes offends them to no end.
I made the mistake of telling a Caterham owner at a show that I was building a Locost (Lotus 7 replica). Based on the response, maybe it was the same guy.
Imagine being so successful that you can afford a V12 Ferrari, but having such a weak ego that you get butthurt if someone says "I like your Ferrari, which has a front-mounted V12. I also like Ferraris with V8s mounted amidships."
It represents a nontrivial percentage of people who have owned multiple Porsches. The PCA is a good value, as memberships go, and their classifieds are still a very good way to buy and sell. They currently claim 165,000 members. Which HAS to be a big percentage of the 911 and mid-engined people, at least.
All you have to do to get a PCA membership is provide a VIN number. I wanted one when I was driving a Lotus to PCA track events and anted the $50 discount as a PCA member. So I went on eBay and pulled a VIN off a '70s 914 for sale and signed up. YMMV on ethics but I suspect I'm not the only one to have gamed that system.
PCA provides a decent amount of organized driving activities aside from track events. Way more Boxster/944 etc owners than 911s. The upper crust 911s these days seem to be in private clubs that organize cars and Coffee type events. I rarely participate in much besides a track weekend, but my local chapter has things like fall drives, TD rallies, monthly tech sessions, and a Christmas party. The most expensive Porsche I've ever seen at my local chapter is a GT3.
I was at a PCA talk by Vic Elford when one of the air-cooled guys was dumb enough to ask him what his favorite Porsche was of the then current models. He promptly replied, "Cayman S". There were audible gasps in the crowd. Then he added, "And the Cayenne". Heads exploded.
This was after I had spent most of the drive that day being held up in the corners buy air cooled 911s from RUF. I was driving my 2011 Boxster Spyder.
I wish I still had mine. I am currently Porsche-less. I don’t know if I’ll buy another or not. Certainly not the newer ones. I am currently driving a 24 Bronco 2 DR Badlands.
Man. I went from "I hope Max takes first and wins this race outright" to "aw, dude, come on, aren't you embarrassed?" in less than one lap. Oh well! I hate sharing the road with everyone else, too.
Sainz was great and the Ferraris look fast, but I've never been a Ferrari guy and I kind of hope they don't overtake McLaren to win the Constructors' championship. Nice to see Haas excel. USA! USA!
Max, unless he has a DNF in a race Lando wins, will take the WDC this year. The constructor's could be the most exciting in a while. It's good to see the battle going back to a McLaren/Ferrari duel after all these years.
checo is shit and i hope he gets tossed asap in exchange for nearly anyone else
congrats on getting fastest ever lap though which is something im almost certain checo doesnt have though
the justification of a 911 over a corvette is basically impossible now and was kinda tough years ago and its probably never going to get easier as the 911 shifts further toward being a status symbol and away from being a competent sports car
"fascination with magnesium"
"our new magnesium engine crankcase is light and stiff"
but what happens if it cracks or catches fire
"our new magnesium engine crankcase is LIGHT and STIFF"
Your point about the relative cost of the Z06 and the desirable 911s is well taken, but as someone who has been shopping for Z06s for a couple years now, it’s easily possible to configure them to $180k and beyond. They offer $15,000 CF wheels for gods sake.
$135k *is* about the base price for the top trim if that’s what you meant.
I know this is heresy in these parts, and I'm in the market for neither, but recently seeing a C7 parked next to a C8, I prefer the looks of the latter. It always kindles a teensy spark of patriotism seeing what Govt. Motors can do in the right setting. Imagine what it could have been with a manual and without the 2 golfbag rule and having to be easy for portly American boomers to get in and out of. (Despite them being 80% of their market.)
I had held out some hope that there would be a Cadillac version of the C8 that would take over some of the “touring” aspects and leave the hard edged sportiness to the Corvette.
I still like the C8 (and prefer its looks to the C7 as you do) but I agree that it’s more like 90% of what it could/should be.
As a former C6 (best generation) owner, and son of parents who have owned C2, C3, C5, C6, and C7, I try very hard to dislike the C8. Then I see one on the street and immediately wish I could be in that driver’s seat.
I always thought there golf bag "rule" was bullshit. Just tell the truth that the company needed to make money on the car, and that they couldn't afford to certify it for emissions, safety, and NVH with 2 different transmissions, and still have the base model sticker at $70k.
Has anyone managed to make a set that didn’t shatter into $15k -$30k worth of fancy plastic garbage as soon as they see a curb of modest proportion for the first time?
I, for one, enjoy speccing out my new cool car with $20k wheels that I have on display in my garage because if they are mounted on the car for more than 12 minutes they explode into confetti.
I'll ask for clarification here as well. What would cause a CF motorcycle wheel, eg the factory rollers on a well-optioned BMW S1000R - to fail under normal duty?
I get it for cars, but talk me through this for motorcycles (assume I failed material science.)
For a machine that sits in a temperate (35degF-85degF) garage 24x7x355, what would be the problem running a carbon fiber wheel? Assume a competent rider, no potholes, and no real heat or direct sun. What causes damage?
Carbon fiber is notoriously bad at handling sharp-cornered impacts. At least it is in the bicycle business. So any impact that would put a shiny dent in the rim of an aluminum wheel would have the potential to create a future failure point. That's my dime-store analysis based on talking to Carbon Revolution people a few years ago. They're really not anxious for people to beat the wheels up.
My issue is I lack the imagination necessary to envision a scenario where a properly inflated motorbike tire is compressed to the point that roadway asphalt or concrete punches the rim itself. I say this as a guy who has replaced no fewer than two *automotive* wheels when commuting extensively, for the precise resaon of hitting a pothole.
During the cold half of the year I drive on steelies. My Fit is black so they go well with the rest of the car. Steelies with chrome lug nuts have a great, understated, look.
Yeah, my 2024 Z06 had a sticker price of $170k. And I didn’t get the Z07 version.
Got the carbon fiber wheels though, just because they were cool (somehow I tried to rationalize this decision as reducing unsprung weight, but I know I’m not conning the ACF community.)
I just learned the serious downside however. Picked up a nail in one of my rear tires. Was losing about 4-5 pounds of tire pressure per day. Found out no one in my area will service tires on carbon fiber wheels, including my nearest Chevrolet dealership! I ending up driving 54 miles one way (kind of nerve wracking with a leaky tire) to the Ferrari dealership in Orlando. They were both kind and professional, and replaced the tire at a non-exorbitant cost, without marring the affected carbon fiber wheel. Plus, I had the opportunity to wander around their showroom while the tire replacement happened, getting depressed at the sight of the various $300-600K Ferrari models for sale.
If you track you need wheels that can handle multiple changes per year, thats not cf wheels
Plus you can get lightweight metal wheels for track use that are at least as light as the cf wheels for 5k
Imo cf wheels and ceramic rotors are bling for street driven cars
Fundamentally the issue with the c8 is weight, as in it’s at least 5-600lbs more than a. Gt3. Somewhere between lap 3 and lap 10 that manifests pretty significantly and you pace will of necessity slacken.
Not to mention tire and pad wear.
Imo if you want a streetable out the box car to track then a gt4rs is the way to go. But while on the porche configurator you can spec a decent one for less the. 170k in reality you’re going
To be paying +220k.
Realistically the Vette is a way better road car and far more
I had a 2016 Shelby GT350, which was my daily driver for about six years, and my second car for two. Loved the Shelby, particularly its flat-plane crank V8 and manual transmission. When it became clear, however, that Chevy was going to have a mid-engine Corvette (finally - after decades of rumors!) with a high-output naturally-aspirated flat-plane crank, I knew I’d want one. I was on a waiting list for over two years to get one at MSRP, but I was able to order it just the way I wanted.
It’s a whole different animal compared to the Shelby. The Shelby felt like a high-powered street Mustang; when you fire up the Z06, however, you feel like you’re sitting in a race car.
That’s a pretty big jump in car. Glad you are enjoying the C8. They certainly sound great.
Very interesting RE: the GT350. I’ve never driven one, but a friend has a Mach 1. Similar enough I guess. He’s tracked the hell out of it and it seems to have held up well.
You can go on GM’s website to find out which dealers have Corvette technicians. I’m betting that those dealerships would work on a CF wheel.
Or just go online and search for top dealers for Corvette sales. These dealers will be full service for Corvettes. I have a Chevy dealer close to my house but have my C7 serviced at dealer 40 miles away who sells 100 Corvettes every year.
If I was forced to buy a new Cars and Coffee douchebag vehicle (Lambo, McLaren, Ferrari, et al); it would be a Porsche. No question. Manual transmission is the reason.
Now, my actual dream car— all original (including paint) 330 GTC. If I found and bought one I would enjoy the drive home— then my wife would shoot me dead for spending that much of our dough on a car. And she would be correct in doing so.
No idea. My YouTube consumption consists only of music and old movie/TV clips, I don’t even have a YouTube account. But, I’m sure you weren’t really directing that comment to me; it was more to get your “Tavar” joke in. And, of course; I don’t know (or care to know) who this Tavar is.
I’ve never been to a Cars and Coffee event; but there is always a gathering of those folks at the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix. It’s all modern “exotic” cars. Flappy paddles galore.
On ebay about 10 or 12 years ago, I saw a gorgeous dark green 65/66 Galaxie 500 that had been re-bodied onto a Mercury Marauder. So modern panther frame and engine, (and tragically, dashboard), but body and interior + chairs authentic galaxie.
I don't regret passing up on many of the obscure Craigslist finds I've gone back-and-forth on, but this one I should have just bit the bullet and pulled the trigger on.
I saw someone somewhere say it's much more practical to make a new car look like a cool older car than it is to make an old car drive like a reliable modern car. On the other hand, Mitsuokas look WEIRD.
I like the real cars & coffee events where you show up at 8am kick a few tires and leave by 10am so you can get home and mow the lawn. I avoid the ones that call themselves cars & coffee but start at noon and run all day with boomers sitting in camp chairs with signs in front of their cars.
Yeah, try that Girl Dad stuff with a 13 year semi-anorexic, goth, pain in the ass daughter. Then we can talk. She now has a Phd in microbiology, but them was some tough years.
I raised 2 daughters with my wife. Them mid-teen years are "interesting". Teenage boys are way less complicated.
Can you feel the extra weight in the trunk when you are on the track? Does it make the car less nimble? I am referring to the 120 lbs you put in the trunk of the Neon
'Can you feel the extra weight in the trunk when you are on the track? Does it make the car less nimble? I am referring to the 120 lbs you put in the trunk of the Neon'
It definitely affected how the car got through fast corners. If I had to guess I'd say it cost me one second per lap.
$146,335 as configured by me opens the door to a lot of options. TIL this is the only way to get a manual unless you go GT3 or S/T in a 911 in 2025, woah.
107,065 for a Cayman GTS 4.0, If you're going new, and it has to be a Porsche that seems like a comparative bargain. One could argue a GTS Cayman doesn't have the same mouth feel as a 911(T) when discussing over drinks at the club after a round of golf.
I had a 2021 Cayman GTS 4.0 with the manual. It was a great car other than it would get light in the front end under full acceleration. I sold it a year later for $10k more than I paid new because...covid made people insane.
They do seem great, but there is a small problem with acquiring one. A neighbor of mine has a GT4 with an obnoxious exhaust on it that I hear every time he comes or goes from our quiet piece of suburbia, and my clapped out old BMW put the screws to him a few weeks ago when I ended up behind him at the stop light leaving our neighborhood in my LSE36. On green he gave it the sauce, I followed suit, as you do, and he got caught and passed. So I can't go out and buy the softened version of my neighbors car after all that. Maybe the 911T, with GTS turbos and some breathing mods, is the car for me.
The GT4 engine sounds and goes like dogshit. A few years ago I was driving one back to back with a GT500 Shelby. It was very easy to imagine "best of both" combos and "worst of both" combos, trust me! I just hated the way the GT4 built speed. Sounded like a Subaru Outback.
Are you talking about the oldGT4 or the new one with the 4.0? Lots of people complain about the 4.0, haven't heard much about the 981 version sounding bad.
All those motors are without torque. Can't compare to a good V8.
Much as I rag on Corvettes, secretly I lust for a fast Mustang. They just look good and sound badass.
It was this car. The disconnect between the chassis, which was really decent for a street car, and the engine, which was a Subaru Outback, was pretty intense.
MotoGP in Buriram last weekend keeps the competition close. In qualifying 2 both Jorge Martin and Marc Marquez crashed which sent them tumbling down to 3rd and 5th on the grid, as they had already set fairly hot laps. A pleasant turn of events for each as they have both blown Q2s this season. Bagnaia wins pole position with a new all time lap record, Bastianini close behind, and Bez in fourth. Quartararo put the Yamaha in 6th for, I believe, his best qualifying this year.
In the sprint Jorge Martin's mad charge from 3rd led to him running wide and after some fighting he finished second behind Bastianini who was on it that day. Bagnaia settled for 3rd, unable to match pace and unwilling to take on more risk, Martin's second place put him two points ahead for a 22 point lead.
Disgusting to report this - Ducati finished 1-8th which drives home the advantage fielding so many machines can make. I'm looking forward to them having fewer running next year.
The race took place in rainy conditions. This is usually when any rider can win, and where Bagnaia has struggled. I believe he has zero rain wins. Marquez is often strong in these scenarios. Martin gets a great start and leads for a short while before blunders braking into turns allow Bagnaia and Marquez throigh. Throughout the race Marquez is harassing Bagnaia who is now holding on to first place. Martin is chasing the two when Marquez crashes after nearly getting the bike back on its wheels during the crash. He would remount and run back from DFL to 11th for 5 points. Bagnaia and Martin held their places with Jorge clearly unwilling to push for everything as he had a number of moments indicating treacherous grip levels. Pedro Acosta finished third after a terrible run of DNFs.
Bagnaia brings five points back and heads to Malaysia 17 points down. 1-2 for race and sprint is an 8 point change which means Bagnaia and Martin each have no room for error with Bagnaia needing someone to finish ahead of Martin even if Pecco wins everything.
Wasn't planning to watch the Mexican GP because the start was at 1.30 AM here, but I somehow woke up at 1.25 so decided to watch a few laps, which became most of the race. Yet another one where the action could honestly be described as riveting. Paid the price the next morning at work, but it was worth it.
Congrats on the Ledges outing, JB! I have a question, does running the SR8 get a little boring when there is no other directly comparable machine in your class?
'I have a question, does running the SR8 get a little boring when there is no other directly comparable machine in your class?'
I get that question a lot, so I'm going to pin the answer. Which is "no", but I'll explain why.
0. After a total of nine race weekends in the car, I still feel that I'm learning how to extract maximum speed from the SR8. It was much easier and faster to get used to the PR6, largely because the delta between straight speed and corner speed is less and it's so reassuring to drive. The SR8 is short on tire, has fussy aero, and has to be driven almost on fingertips lest you put yourself in a bad situation. So right now, merely running it for time in the company of very fast formula cars is satisfying enough.
1. I can't really afford to run the car anywhere I'd be bashing the fenders, like in Radical Cup. I'd need another 20-30 grand a year for repairs and maintenance, assuming I don't end up in a tire wall, and that's not in the cards right now.
2. I raced hardcore, fender-banging, literally-pass-someone-over-the-manhole-in-the-Corkscrew classes for almost twenty years. Not that I've had my lifetime fill of close-coupled, in-pack drama, but it's nice to take a few years away and focus on being a disciplined and effective driver. I've always been good at *racing* people, but I haven't always been good at getting the maximum out of my car.
And, finally:
3. At the speeds of which this car is capable, the only 52-year-old who should be bored by it is David Coulthard.
I suppose anyone willing to get rear ended with a 70-mph delta to get a contract extension must have a pretty steady pulse.
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Faf6e9aca-6f04-4f80-9d95-dfd7b35daf73_2861x2534.jpeg?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
LC King Brown Duck Canvas. Cuff your pants.
Sir, you have an eye! But this is race season, not cuffing season.
Is it permissible to wear a linen suit after Labor Day if it's a warm Indian Summer?
only if its not white
i think
For Jude Law? Yes.
For you? No.
It’s been Indian Summer all October!
Not that I’m complaining!
Ronnie, it’s white SHOES that a proper lady does not wear after Labor Day…..
I don’t think were suppose to call it that anymore. It’s Indigenous People’s Summer. One may only wear Gabardine after Labor Day.
I call them Siberian-Americans. Anthropologist Elizabeth Weiss, who has been professionally cancelled for daring to practice anthropology, has a book out called On the Warpath: My Battles With Indians, Pretendians, and Woke Warriors
Definitely a strong Asian thing going on except the engineering skills
I never saw any problems with political commentary in your posts - in fact you are one of the more fair and nuanced commentators around these parts. What's the real reason for moving this to "Thunderdome"?
I think the problem is that comments about other topics in combination posts get lost/drowned out in the political discussion. It’s not a content issue, just a separation one.
That's part of it, for sure.
Reminds me donkey konger wants me to send you something
You know how to reach me!
I keep hearing that the political stuff smothers the other discussions whenever it appears -- so people who want to talk about a watch or a car have to wade through 500 comments about Trump or Harris on the way through.
"Any topics that deal with explicit political candidates, rather than ideas, will be sent separately as Thunderdome."
As someone for whom the ideas matter way more than the candidates, especially since I only approve of 1 out of the 4 persons in contention, this new structure may need further elaboration to keep me from faux pas-ing.
Ideas & philosophy > candidates
Well, sir, as a Trackday Club member you have the ability to berate anyone you like in any fashion, your humble author included!
Membership has it's privileges
so it's just like the internet writ large then?
Has anyone published an actual weight for the 911t?
I don’t get why porxhe does not just produce more of the cars people actually wnat to buy 911 st various gt3s and gt4rs.
The lesson is you can sell a lot of
Pseudo sports cars(most new 911s) but there are a lot of people who only wnat the real thing.
The mad rush to bland cars has opened the doors for singer and also companies like Honda with the civic type R and everyone in between who bothers which is scant few.
Clearly there is an underlying underserved market for “real” performance cars as opposed to fast gt cars.
But then Ferrari hasn’t suffered from
Making handbags for men
Porche is now the Rolex of cars, a symbol you made x, and Ferrari the Patek.
Whither the true driver and enthusiast.
Unless you’re paying well over the notional msrp and prepared for a car with 40-100k worth of pointless cf and colored sticking. Forget about porche
It’s one thing keeping market tension by not overproducing but radically underproducing just makes dealers rich.
One would think the vw overlords should be interested in sales to keep
The ship afloat
I was staggered to find out the other day, a 718 Boxster Style Edition (which comes in Rubystone and with a manual box) is only £60k. Ok you only get the four cylinder but still. That, pound for pound would seem to be best deal in the entire range.
Here in the United States, that gets you a 470 horse mid-engined Vette and a half-decent pickup truck to drag it around on!
Unfortunately the C8 is uglier than an inside out frog.
Probably cant order one by now, production ends in 2025.
When you could the best bang for your buck was the Boxster/Cayman S, 350HP turbo-4. Cost anywhere from $80,000-$100,000 depending on when you got it. 6-speed or PDF.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the 470HP Vette will be marginally quicker to 60, so if that's what you want, along with a foot more length and width (to the car, not your penis) it's true you can have it.
The Vette also won’t be a piece of shit. 🦅
If you look at the interior you may have doubts about that.
Your comb over will do better in a coupe I'll grant you that.
If I want 0-60 I'll drop the clutch on my ZX14 and hope for the best. On a road course, the C8 far outclasses anything short of a GT4 Cayman. That being said, I put 60,000 miles doing overnight drives in a Boxster. I know it has real world virtues the Vette doesn't match. And I wish they'd sell it, and the 911, on that basis.
I'm gonna print this out and save it for posterity.
When you get to my age and wisdom, you've got 10 years, you'll ignore the chatter, trust your own judgment, and enjoy things on their own merit.
'When you get to my age and wisdom, you've got 10 years, you'll ignore the chatter, trust your own judgment, and enjoy things on their own merit.'
I think you're going to be highly amused by my V-Strom post.
EMBRACE THE 'STROM
was this a poem
I'm more fascinated by the gender neutral "porxhe". Spelling error or social commentary?
yes
Could also be because Sean dislikes Porsche and won't give them the dignity of actually writing the name. My finance and I do this as a joke when we talk about people or things we find annoying. Or we add a "B" somewhere in the word.
Creative misspelling is mad tite, yo.
"The heart wnats what it wnats" - True Poet Sean
Whatever I can do to bring a sliver of joy back into my life
The cabrios have had 'top surgery'.
you will never be a real roadster
Heard it wears boxters
That's a very good point. What is the real enthusiast's car of 2024? I'm not talking for Instagram points, but for someone who wants a car to actually drive?
miata
it's right there in the fucking name: Miata Is Always the Answer
EXACTLY
ND3
How about for fat people with claustrophobia?
weight watchers
Civic Type R
I test drove one and found it charming, but they seem to need a fair amount of work to not overheat on a track day in Texas.
Miata or maybe a BRZ.
But also
Lemme tell you how great the Elantra N is for the price. Awesome driver’s car AND at least moderately practical!
A used Elise?
Emira?
Nothing. That breed is as dead as disco. Everybody, according to the car companies, wants a luxurious main battle tank with a heated gas pedal.
Stolen dodge challenger w/ big gulp cup full of lean
you've been to Oakland, then?
Civic type r is pretty cool but hard riding and it’s going to fade after 3 laps if you seriously track .
The Corolla gr also and awesome fun road car but not for track.
While not my cup of tea the better spec mustangs work esp if you live somewhere with big roads and less bends
Used c6 zo6 is a keeper
Alfa 4c and Elise are hard to beat
I like Miata but they really need to out that new inline 6 in one
The toyobaru twins are great but by modern standards underpowered, they either need the Subaru turbo motor or the gr Corolla motor
Used boxeters are pretty cheap
"they really need to out that new inline 6 in one"
gonna have to disagree with you on that one
the point of a miata is a light simple and cheapish sportscar and trying to fit another two cylinders in there and then make everything else work with the added weight and power wouldnt likely make it a better miata
Agree. A slightly stretched miata could be a badass GT though.
They are missing an opportunity with a Miata GT hardtop coupe.
not bothered im in the minority or not but the hardtop nd looks ugly
maybe it would make slightly more sense if you just welded the top on and got rid of the mechanicals
They did that, and called it the RX-8!
those almost seem like practical cars but its tricky finding one that hasnt been owned by someone who doesnt know what theyve got
was gonna say exactly that
Or with the 6 it might be like a modern version of a 289 cobra
I don’t think the 6 is that much heavier and having driven an na Miata with an Acura v6 swap it’s pretty sweet
But yes it becomes less of a momentum car and more something else
or you could do what flyin miata did and put an ls in it to get something far closer to a modern cobra
I think the Miata is crying out for a redo of the turbo. They only tried it for two years and it was pretty half-assed. The price of all cars is fairly high now, so I think the market could probably bear what it would cost to certify a variant motor. If they could stay within 200lbs and get something over 250+whp they would be in another league without breaking the bank.
so a fiat 124 then but maybe with a slightly bigger engine
"slightly" is doing a lot of work here. The internet is telling me that the Fiata was a 1.4l making a ground pounding 160hp. A 2.0 or 2.3 Ecoboost can almost double that, although I don't know what the weight penalty would be. There would also be a tax in dollars and pounds for upping the chassis stiffness and the brakes. Nonetheless it would be substantially less on both counts than anything involving increasing the number of cylinders.
Can you put an LS in the 124? It’s just a Miata right?
Yes. In fact, I want the 1.5 to thrash like a stolen mule that someone else rented. Less likely to break the gearbox, too.
As someone who had the 1.5, can confirm that it is amazing fun and can be thrashed like the proverbial rented mule. Just about brisk enough too, if a little buzzy on highways. Selling it was the dumbest thing I ever did.
I've half a mind to try to sneak one through customs from the continent and swap the vin plates from a local one. 25 years is too long to wait.
Gordon Murray T.50 or Singer DLS, price aside.
Those are both massive Instagram Point cars.
They are also both massive enthusiast cars; they are not incompatible.
It's good to be rich!
Tell me about it, Mr. Trust Fund!
For road I drive one of the new 4cyl Alfa gulias. More tha enough power for the road and by far the best steering of any modern car by a long shot. It also has suspension that articulates with great shocks to hold it all
Together.
If the old lpre china lotus had built a sedan this would be it
Not a sportscar but like an e36 m3 a sweet spot
The first time I drove a Giulia my I was impressed by how good the steering was and that overall the car was what a BMW 3-Series used to be. Seeing a Giulia on the road is always a treat.
Also have a e46 m3 which I got new and just turned 36k. I found that car as delivered had a flat area on the powerband and also just made noise above 7k rpm . It also had classic German suspension tuning which was both hard and with too much body lean.
Above. 120 it would gain speed but not accelerate if that makes sense . A csl remap didn’t change the headline numbers but really let the motor run as it should and then I saw the magic.
I hear during Covid that car could accelerate past 170 going up a long incline and was still pulling hard .
The Alfa is better in almost every way dynamically but the na bmw 6 has a precision and magic no turbo car can match.
So many moderns lack real steering or throttle precision it’s like 50% of the equation is missing despite the power. Tha Alfa has power but the motor is meh, fortunately the rest is great and still
There
I’ve driven a 992.1 carerra s on track. There is turbo mush if not lag and in general that car felt like there was a layer of cotton woo between you and the action, no matter how good the underlaying bits might be. Is the 911T different ? The Alfa though that still feels alive
If only it had a free breathing na6
Would love to try a rs4 though
I was momentarily entranced by the Quadrifoglio, wouldn't that be your jam?
I'm pretty happy with the motor in the S4, depending on the throttle map, it barely registers as a turbo. Makes good sounds too. Steering is a little dead though.
The quad is great but where are you going to use it , and it’s 2x the 4cyl which comes with same seats brakes etc.
I guess for my speed ya yas are mostly out on track and that’s a completely different car for that purpose.
Plus have one or two others for different itches. The guiia is more of a daily and even then often I take my 2010 v6 equinox because it’s smooth steers ok and completely unobtrusive
The 4cyl guika easily cruises at 100 will punch up to l140. But yeah money no object go for the quad.
I was thinking to maybe trade the guila for a new m2 but then the new bmws seem to have such insipid steering and the m2 still not really out the box trackable so what does it add besides excess acceleration on road. The guila over 4 years just works no issues , asks only for an oil change. But yes while that 4cyl motor does the job it totally lacks the sense of occasion alwe get from oter cars.
S4 also an awesome all
Rounder and useable road car, once again a sweet spot. Which gets me thinking of a rs3, they say the 5 cyl
Motor has to be experienced somewhere in life. But those cars like porches suffer from manufactured shortage and dealer markups . If you could get the wagon version here that might tilt
the balance. But Audi like Subaru hasn’t figured out that high performance buyer might prefer a wagon for the road.
I guess it all boils down to passion and practical which boils down to use and roads where used .
Or as the wife likes to say it’s like slippers different ones for different purposes. Guila s4 and a few others cover a lot
Of bases in one car.
Still on a Sunday am something. Far more focused seems appropriate or a motorcycle , and then For track if you really get to be pressing on very very few street legal cars work, and even then…
All of which is to say that for road use fun the most extreme version of a car might not be the best esp
If you’re dealing along the day with traffic and variable road surfaces.
I don't know about Sainz. He seems to have a couple of good weekends a year, rather than being a consistent challenger to Leclerc. And whatever Lewis brings to the Scuderia, you've got to admit there's a certain romance to it (and yes I know it was what Senna was going to as well before a stray suspension arm scuppered his plans, which is almost certainly why Lewis is doing it).
"Yo dawg, we heard you like Mexicans..."
WHO THE FUCK TOLD YOU THAT?
If Checo needs a job after this season I have a lawn that needs to be mowed all next summer as well as some flowers and trees to plant come springtime.
a) that's not very nice to say
b) Liam Lawson would plant them better
c) how much does it pay, I always need work
If I did hurt his feelings, I'm sure he'll feel better when he gets home to his beautiful family at the giant estate they live.
Liam Lawson will likely have a job next year.
$50/day+dinner and some cookies? Since I doubt Checo will take me up on the offer I'll be out there myself with a spade and 50 bags of mulch. I wish I was a plumber, too, so I could run a water line to the front of the house for another hose nozzle to water all the new stuff. We're getting a ginkgo tree, a Japanese maple, some winterberry bushes, probably creeping flox, wild roses (for low maintenance) and more lilacs. I'm afraid the lilacs we tried propagating this year won't come back next year.
If you have an automated sprinkler system check the box to see if there's a port where you can add a valve, a pressure reducer, and run a drip line. We did this over the summer with the help of an uncle and are enjoying fully automated luxury drip line watering.
Just make sure to clamp the lines or they blow off quite spectacularly/embarrassingly.
I need to do this, but don't know where to begin (sprinkler system & drip system). Can you recommend any resources you trust, or even brands?
Also - how durable are buried sprinkler systems in winter? Does overwinter freezing necessitate springtime maintenance?
They need the water blown out with a compressor before the first hard freeze.
Henry is correct - blow the water out as winter prep which isn't difficult but is required if you live somewhere where it gets cold.
I know my set up is original to the house except for the newly added valve + pressure reducer. All Rainbird valves; waterproof/resilient grease cap wire connectors (there's water...), Orbit manifold with 4 ports (and four valves now connected to the control system in the garage via aforementioned grease caps).
I used https://www.dbcirrigation.com/ a local-ish company to get parts.
The rough outline is gate valve between house main water line and outside feed to sprinklers -> Ball valve -> pair of ports that an airline adapter can be screwed onto -> backflow preventer valve -> ball valve -> manifold -> electronic valves -> pipe (we use flexible line because if it does have water and does freeze it might not shatter like PVC) -> risers -> sprinklers
Again - I just added a valve to an existing system which is much less involved and I also ran the drip line overground instead of underground as it can always be buried later. The major hardware stores have rough guides that give you an idea of how to do it as well, or if you have an uncle who literally does this for their living you can work with them!
ETA: There are pressure reducing valves or just inline pressure regulators that can sit after a valve to drop pressure and then neck down to the appropriate size for your main drip line runs. I think ours is 1" -> 3/4" -> big runs -> taps to 1/4" line for emitters
I don't think anyone in our neighborhood has an automated sprinkler system, but a drip line sounds so nice and labor-free (...once it's installed, at least). I wonder how much water would make it to the end for us, though. We have a 75' long stretch along our the sidewalk in front of our side yard we're going to be doing some serious planting along. It's a 2.5' slope at about 45-60 degrees that was a huge pain in the ass (and lower back) to mow when it was grass--well, weeds, really, but it will look a lot nicer when it's flowers and bushes and whatnot and it will never need mowing again. I'm thinking it's going to be watered by watering can for the upcoming summer. At least it'll get me outside.
An interim solution is a manual (or battery operated) feed running off an existing faucet to a drip line run. We are running at ~25PSI after the reducer and have it split just after the box for a ~30' run to the patio where there are some taps for various planter boxes and then what must be about 120' run around the south side, west side, and north side of the house with 10 (?) more little drip sprinklers and the like running off it. If you calculate how much water the various plants need you set the right GPM drip emitter and then set a timer such that the appropriate amount of water is delivered.
I was out to the ginkgo grove in Boyce VA last week and it was effing transcendent. Anyone who owns a car they like and lives within (their) striking distance and is open to being awestruck should head that way:
https://blandy.virginia.edu/ginkgo-grove
(Skip the food trucks: there’s good chow in Marshall and Upperville. Bake VA 601 into your route, irrespective of where you’re coming from. You're welcome)
Noted for posterity!
I’m aware of the cynical marketing exercise that is the Carrera T, and I don’t care. To me, it’s important for one reason and one reason only, that you can get a stick shift non hybrid 6cyl 911 for semi reasonable money. I was worried that MT Porsches would be $300k+ after dealer markup etc if they were only in GT3T guise; this means I can have a stick 911 in a promotion or two, not wait for a lottery win.
I’m also aware of the cynical marketing exercise that is the Carrera T, and my wife does not care. Her 2013 brown 7-speed manual Carrera 4 has 95,000 miles and I want to replace it. At least I think so, I can fix a lot of problems for what it costs to swap old for new... But old German cars tend to explode at the ten year mark.
Fair enough. But for $135k you could get a really nice 993 Carrera 2S. Which will be worth what you paid for it ten years later, and which people would really envy.
Yup. And if I wanted a toy that would be the move. But if I just want a nice daily driver car, I wouldn’t buy a 993. I’ve always wanted to daily drive a (manual) 911. This seems like the best way.
996TT (2001 - 2004/5).
Daily drive a very nice one now for well under $100k. Turn it into a your minor lottery win later, when the market stops dismissing it as a 996 and embraces it as Mezger’s masterpiece / “last pre-VW 911 turbo” and whatever other fetish fodder they start mining in 2026.
I’d do it myself but the damn thing has 8 (sic) oil pumps and I’m trying to buy some land in the valley so I can plant a ginkgo tree.
Ginkgo trees are the best.
The current one does seem like a tool for tools, but a few years ago they made a Carrera T for the end-of-the-line 991, and I got one during the Biden-Covid years. That one cost about $100K, had the 7 speed, and was the last narrow-bodied Carrera. Same turbo-6 give or take a few horsepower, Race-Tex seats, poly side and rear glass, nice wheels. Can't say I loved it but I didn't mind it either. Quicker than it seemed on paper, made nice sounds, the shifter was decent (the 7th gear that they now deleted was strictly for mileage purposes, nobody used it). Sold it at a slight profit after 18 months or so. These are changing hands at around $100,000 give or take and they came in some great colors. Unlike the 992 it didn't seem ginormous in person.
Friend of mine was smart enough to order one of these in 2018. I asked him for first refusal the day he told me he placed the order. It's the only manual 911 to ever make it to the country, so I have no idea what body parts I'll need to sell when he decides to part with it (he'll probably want the equivalent of 200k plus USD, because that's what our market is like). Still, I'm damn well going to at least TRY to get it when the time comes.
Do we really think that this T isn't gonna have the dealer markup that the others have? I think the surely limited production manuals almost guarantees mark up.
I don't think the average guy or even Porsche owner is as discerning as you make them out to be on the subtle differences between the million different versions of the 911.
Having sat through many discussions about this topic at PCA meetings, I concede the first assertion and strongly contest the second.
Oh that's nothing. I expressed a fondness for Magnum PI Ferraris in the presence of a V12 and its owner and you'd think I'd had taken a dump on the hood.
Did the fellow manage to refer to Robin Masters' GTS as "a Dino" because I've heard that done in the past!
Men like that are like chicks are about handbags and shoes. The mere existence of something of their favored brand but remotely affordable to the plebes offends them to no end.
I made the mistake of telling a Caterham owner at a show that I was building a Locost (Lotus 7 replica). Based on the response, maybe it was the same guy.
Imagine being so successful that you can afford a V12 Ferrari, but having such a weak ego that you get butthurt if someone says "I like your Ferrari, which has a front-mounted V12. I also like Ferraris with V8s mounted amidships."
It's funny. Worse even than bringing a 924 to a aircooled Singer gathering.
theyre running out of 911 ideas so they just might take a crack at the 924 sometime
Magnus did.
914!
Does the PCA represent ALL or even a majority of Porsche owners?
It represents a nontrivial percentage of people who have owned multiple Porsches. The PCA is a good value, as memberships go, and their classifieds are still a very good way to buy and sell. They currently claim 165,000 members. Which HAS to be a big percentage of the 911 and mid-engined people, at least.
All you have to do to get a PCA membership is provide a VIN number. I wanted one when I was driving a Lotus to PCA track events and anted the $50 discount as a PCA member. So I went on eBay and pulled a VIN off a '70s 914 for sale and signed up. YMMV on ethics but I suspect I'm not the only one to have gamed that system.
5% would be non-trivial, but maybe I'm within the trivially ignored.
Multiple Porsche owners is admittedly a minority within a minority, so I still don't see it as being very many.
PCA provides a decent amount of organized driving activities aside from track events. Way more Boxster/944 etc owners than 911s. The upper crust 911s these days seem to be in private clubs that organize cars and Coffee type events. I rarely participate in much besides a track weekend, but my local chapter has things like fall drives, TD rallies, monthly tech sessions, and a Christmas party. The most expensive Porsche I've ever seen at my local chapter is a GT3.
I was at a PCA talk by Vic Elford when one of the air-cooled guys was dumb enough to ask him what his favorite Porsche was of the then current models. He promptly replied, "Cayman S". There were audible gasps in the crowd. Then he added, "And the Cayenne". Heads exploded.
This was after I had spent most of the drive that day being held up in the corners buy air cooled 911s from RUF. I was driving my 2011 Boxster Spyder.
Well yeah, Elford was old as balls by then, OF COURSE he likes the Cayenne, it's like my current V-Strom infatuation!
There's a big difference between those answers!
Cayman S: the modern 911 similar to the way that the Civic is bigger than early Accords. Cayenne: a completely different form of vehicle.
What are the odds we are the only ACF subscribers with the 987.2 Spyder/Cayman R twins.
I wish I still had mine. I am currently Porsche-less. I don’t know if I’ll buy another or not. Certainly not the newer ones. I am currently driving a 24 Bronco 2 DR Badlands.
Man. I went from "I hope Max takes first and wins this race outright" to "aw, dude, come on, aren't you embarrassed?" in less than one lap. Oh well! I hate sharing the road with everyone else, too.
Sainz was great and the Ferraris look fast, but I've never been a Ferrari guy and I kind of hope they don't overtake McLaren to win the Constructors' championship. Nice to see Haas excel. USA! USA!
Yeah it was great to see Haas up in the top 10 again. I would root for them over any other team if they’re performing well.
I can’t stand that they’re dropping KMag for Ocon though. I don’t believe Mag will be any better and Ocon won’t be any less crash-prone.
That move did make me sad. Bearman looks to be a pretty good driver, though. I'll definitely pull for him next season.
Max, unless he has a DNF in a race Lando wins, will take the WDC this year. The constructor's could be the most exciting in a while. It's good to see the battle going back to a McLaren/Ferrari duel after all these years.
It has been a very entertaining season to watch. By the end of June I knew I was getting more than my money's worth for my FT TV subscription.
'It's good to see the battle going back to a McLaren/Ferrari duel after all these years.'
When you put it like that... it is really good.
checo is shit and i hope he gets tossed asap in exchange for nearly anyone else
congrats on getting fastest ever lap though which is something im almost certain checo doesnt have though
the justification of a 911 over a corvette is basically impossible now and was kinda tough years ago and its probably never going to get easier as the 911 shifts further toward being a status symbol and away from being a competent sports car
"fascination with magnesium"
"our new magnesium engine crankcase is light and stiff"
but what happens if it cracks or catches fire
"our new magnesium engine crankcase is LIGHT and STIFF"
"our new magnesium engine crankcase is LIGHT and STIFF"
VW used magnesium crankcases on their air-cooled engines throughout the 1960s and into the 1970s.
Those things sure made awesome campfires at Glamis for years! Then the head studs punctured the tires in the morning.
Yes I learned that when a valve cover bale broke off
Both the 911 AND the Corvette now have dorky, corny, lampoonable brands. Sadly.
Porsche seems to be making replacement parts again:
https://www.theautopian.com/porsche-magnesium-case-halves/
interesting but i think the only real reason id go for mag is if i wanted to have a period correct 911r style car
What's next? Pancake Les Paul reissues?
(I think they already DID that.)
Your point about the relative cost of the Z06 and the desirable 911s is well taken, but as someone who has been shopping for Z06s for a couple years now, it’s easily possible to configure them to $180k and beyond. They offer $15,000 CF wheels for gods sake.
$135k *is* about the base price for the top trim if that’s what you meant.
I know this is heresy in these parts, and I'm in the market for neither, but recently seeing a C7 parked next to a C8, I prefer the looks of the latter. It always kindles a teensy spark of patriotism seeing what Govt. Motors can do in the right setting. Imagine what it could have been with a manual and without the 2 golfbag rule and having to be easy for portly American boomers to get in and out of. (Despite them being 80% of their market.)
I had held out some hope that there would be a Cadillac version of the C8 that would take over some of the “touring” aspects and leave the hard edged sportiness to the Corvette.
I still like the C8 (and prefer its looks to the C7 as you do) but I agree that it’s more like 90% of what it could/should be.
You’re 100% right. GM never fully-asses anything. It should have a manual. GM can spin it any way that they want it, but the car should have a manual.
The Cadillac version should look like a Cien but with modern design language.
Also they screwed up by not building the Buick Avista.
"they screwed up by not building the"
there are a number of vehicles that could follow this sentence
I know, right? An Aztec SS would have been great.
Not
As a former C6 (best generation) owner, and son of parents who have owned C2, C3, C5, C6, and C7, I try very hard to dislike the C8. Then I see one on the street and immediately wish I could be in that driver’s seat.
I always thought there golf bag "rule" was bullshit. Just tell the truth that the company needed to make money on the car, and that they couldn't afford to certify it for emissions, safety, and NVH with 2 different transmissions, and still have the base model sticker at $70k.
'They offer $15,000 CF wheels for gods sake.'
I would stay as far away from those as humanly possible.
Has anyone managed to make a set that didn’t shatter into $15k -$30k worth of fancy plastic garbage as soon as they see a curb of modest proportion for the first time?
sure
all you have to do is find a set made of metal
Oh nice.
I, for one, enjoy speccing out my new cool car with $20k wheels that I have on display in my garage because if they are mounted on the car for more than 12 minutes they explode into confetti.
What amazes me is that people put them on MOTORCYCLES!
There are few ways to die smartly on a bike, but that’s gotta be one of the dumbest
if youre hitting something on a bike hard enough to shatter a cf wheel youre in trouble regardless
I would totally laugh in agreement had i not run carbon fiber rims down a lot of downhill MTB runs.
I'll ask for clarification here as well. What would cause a CF motorcycle wheel, eg the factory rollers on a well-optioned BMW S1000R - to fail under normal duty?
Any Michigan pothole, IMO.
I get it for cars, but talk me through this for motorcycles (assume I failed material science.)
For a machine that sits in a temperate (35degF-85degF) garage 24x7x355, what would be the problem running a carbon fiber wheel? Assume a competent rider, no potholes, and no real heat or direct sun. What causes damage?
as far as i know theres not much damaging them other than uv light and age but thats not very much
Carbon fiber is notoriously bad at handling sharp-cornered impacts. At least it is in the bicycle business. So any impact that would put a shiny dent in the rim of an aluminum wheel would have the potential to create a future failure point. That's my dime-store analysis based on talking to Carbon Revolution people a few years ago. They're really not anxious for people to beat the wheels up.
My issue is I lack the imagination necessary to envision a scenario where a properly inflated motorbike tire is compressed to the point that roadway asphalt or concrete punches the rim itself. I say this as a guy who has replaced no fewer than two *automotive* wheels when commuting extensively, for the precise resaon of hitting a pothole.
I’m vain about some things, but never wheels. I’d order the cheapest possible on any car, no matter how nice.
I also get the smallest diameter available, the ride is always better.
And the tires are cheaper too!
During the cold half of the year I drive on steelies. My Fit is black so they go well with the rest of the car. Steelies with chrome lug nuts have a great, understated, look.
I can't stand how rusty steel rims always get, no matter how much I try to take care of them. I got my first set of aluminum rims for winter this year
i had a set of steelies on the miata for the winter
once i replaced them with oem aluminum wheels i could really feel the degradation in ride quality the increased unsprung weight caused
Bob Lutz is the Chairman of the supplier, Carbon Revolution.
Yeah, my 2024 Z06 had a sticker price of $170k. And I didn’t get the Z07 version.
Got the carbon fiber wheels though, just because they were cool (somehow I tried to rationalize this decision as reducing unsprung weight, but I know I’m not conning the ACF community.)
I just learned the serious downside however. Picked up a nail in one of my rear tires. Was losing about 4-5 pounds of tire pressure per day. Found out no one in my area will service tires on carbon fiber wheels, including my nearest Chevrolet dealership! I ending up driving 54 miles one way (kind of nerve wracking with a leaky tire) to the Ferrari dealership in Orlando. They were both kind and professional, and replaced the tire at a non-exorbitant cost, without marring the affected carbon fiber wheel. Plus, I had the opportunity to wander around their showroom while the tire replacement happened, getting depressed at the sight of the various $300-600K Ferrari models for sale.
cf wheels are both lighter and stiffer than pretty much anything else which matters if youre going after maximum performance and tire utilization
https://motoiq.com/tested-carbon-revolution-carbon-fiber-wheels/
the author also seems to have a decent race history but ill defer to jacks opinion on that
If you track you need wheels that can handle multiple changes per year, thats not cf wheels
Plus you can get lightweight metal wheels for track use that are at least as light as the cf wheels for 5k
Imo cf wheels and ceramic rotors are bling for street driven cars
Fundamentally the issue with the c8 is weight, as in it’s at least 5-600lbs more than a. Gt3. Somewhere between lap 3 and lap 10 that manifests pretty significantly and you pace will of necessity slacken.
Not to mention tire and pad wear.
Imo if you want a streetable out the box car to track then a gt4rs is the way to go. But while on the porche configurator you can spec a decent one for less the. 170k in reality you’re going
To be paying +220k.
Realistically the Vette is a way better road car and far more
Useable in general.
Horses for courses
"cf wheels and ceramic rotors are bling for street driven cars"
completely agree
And garage queens.
Drive it in good health!
I won't lie, I'm impressed that I have a reader with a carbon-wheel Z06. That must be heady stuff to drive at pace.
It’s not too shabby!
That’s roughly twice my budget, so take the following for what it’s worth. If you may, what did you own prior and how did it compare?
I had a 2016 Shelby GT350, which was my daily driver for about six years, and my second car for two. Loved the Shelby, particularly its flat-plane crank V8 and manual transmission. When it became clear, however, that Chevy was going to have a mid-engine Corvette (finally - after decades of rumors!) with a high-output naturally-aspirated flat-plane crank, I knew I’d want one. I was on a waiting list for over two years to get one at MSRP, but I was able to order it just the way I wanted.
It’s a whole different animal compared to the Shelby. The Shelby felt like a high-powered street Mustang; when you fire up the Z06, however, you feel like you’re sitting in a race car.
That’s a pretty big jump in car. Glad you are enjoying the C8. They certainly sound great.
Very interesting RE: the GT350. I’ve never driven one, but a friend has a Mach 1. Similar enough I guess. He’s tracked the hell out of it and it seems to have held up well.
"I tried to rationalize this decision as reducing unsprung weight"
I believe you!
You can go on GM’s website to find out which dealers have Corvette technicians. I’m betting that those dealerships would work on a CF wheel.
Or just go online and search for top dealers for Corvette sales. These dealers will be full service for Corvettes. I have a Chevy dealer close to my house but have my C7 serviced at dealer 40 miles away who sells 100 Corvettes every year.
If I was forced to buy a new Cars and Coffee douchebag vehicle (Lambo, McLaren, Ferrari, et al); it would be a Porsche. No question. Manual transmission is the reason.
Now, my actual dream car— all original (including paint) 330 GTC. If I found and bought one I would enjoy the drive home— then my wife would shoot me dead for spending that much of our dough on a car. And she would be correct in doing so.
Didn't that guy on YouTube put a manual in a Murcielago? You know, the guy who's not fully Tavar, he's only Tavar...ish.
No idea. My YouTube consumption consists only of music and old movie/TV clips, I don’t even have a YouTube account. But, I’m sure you weren’t really directing that comment to me; it was more to get your “Tavar” joke in. And, of course; I don’t know (or care to know) who this Tavar is.
Glad I could be of assistance, and tee you up.
Freddy "Tavarish" Hernandez.
Oh, yeah.
Don’t know who that is either. More importantly, I don’t care.
Am I the only one here that wants a classic car for Cars & Coffee? I’m thinking an R-code 63 Galaxie would do the trick…with manual of course.
That sounds fantastic.
I’ve never been to a Cars and Coffee event; but there is always a gathering of those folks at the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix. It’s all modern “exotic” cars. Flappy paddles galore.
On ebay about 10 or 12 years ago, I saw a gorgeous dark green 65/66 Galaxie 500 that had been re-bodied onto a Mercury Marauder. So modern panther frame and engine, (and tragically, dashboard), but body and interior + chairs authentic galaxie.
I don't regret passing up on many of the obscure Craigslist finds I've gone back-and-forth on, but this one I should have just bit the bullet and pulled the trigger on.
I saw someone somewhere say it's much more practical to make a new car look like a cool older car than it is to make an old car drive like a reliable modern car. On the other hand, Mitsuokas look WEIRD.
Weirdly AWESOME
https://www.autoblog.com/news/mitsuoka-rock-star-only1-lottery-closed
imagine adding to the confusion further with an ls so everyone wonders if they suddenly forgot how big a c2 corvette was
wheels on the mitsuoka are likely goocars hemi for those curious
I like the real cars & coffee events where you show up at 8am kick a few tires and leave by 10am so you can get home and mow the lawn. I avoid the ones that call themselves cars & coffee but start at noon and run all day with boomers sitting in camp chairs with signs in front of their cars.
The 8-10AM version is what we have here in the Portland suburbs. People get there when it opens (there's a line), most head for the exits at 10 or 11.
Yeah, try that Girl Dad stuff with a 13 year semi-anorexic, goth, pain in the ass daughter. Then we can talk. She now has a Phd in microbiology, but them was some tough years.
I raised 2 daughters with my wife. Them mid-teen years are "interesting". Teenage boys are way less complicated.
Can you feel the extra weight in the trunk when you are on the track? Does it make the car less nimble? I am referring to the 120 lbs you put in the trunk of the Neon
--Stephen
'Can you feel the extra weight in the trunk when you are on the track? Does it make the car less nimble? I am referring to the 120 lbs you put in the trunk of the Neon'
It definitely affected how the car got through fast corners. If I had to guess I'd say it cost me one second per lap.
dumb question but couldnt you put it in the passenger seat area so you can keep your weight distribution sorta the same
That's where the battery and some other stuff is. Were I planning on ballasting the car in the long run, I'd change things around.
Girls are not likely to call you from jail. Boys aren't going to get pregnant with a loser. Don't bother asking me how I know.
see its funny you say that because ive been told that men can get pregnant too
what interesting times we live in
$146,335 as configured by me opens the door to a lot of options. TIL this is the only way to get a manual unless you go GT3 or S/T in a 911 in 2025, woah.
The MT sticker refers to your wallet after purchase. Or head before.
I'm almost surprised that they didn't etch those logos into the glass.
107,065 for a Cayman GTS 4.0, If you're going new, and it has to be a Porsche that seems like a comparative bargain. One could argue a GTS Cayman doesn't have the same mouth feel as a 911(T) when discussing over drinks at the club after a round of golf.
I had a 2021 Cayman GTS 4.0 with the manual. It was a great car other than it would get light in the front end under full acceleration. I sold it a year later for $10k more than I paid new because...covid made people insane.
A great car and my wife's daily driver. Get one while they last. It fits between the two yellow stripes in my condo garage.
They do seem great, but there is a small problem with acquiring one. A neighbor of mine has a GT4 with an obnoxious exhaust on it that I hear every time he comes or goes from our quiet piece of suburbia, and my clapped out old BMW put the screws to him a few weeks ago when I ended up behind him at the stop light leaving our neighborhood in my LSE36. On green he gave it the sauce, I followed suit, as you do, and he got caught and passed. So I can't go out and buy the softened version of my neighbors car after all that. Maybe the 911T, with GTS turbos and some breathing mods, is the car for me.
The GT4 engine sounds and goes like dogshit. A few years ago I was driving one back to back with a GT500 Shelby. It was very easy to imagine "best of both" combos and "worst of both" combos, trust me! I just hated the way the GT4 built speed. Sounded like a Subaru Outback.
Holy smokes "sounded like a subaru outback" is brutal. Porsche on life support
Are you talking about the oldGT4 or the new one with the 4.0? Lots of people complain about the 4.0, haven't heard much about the 981 version sounding bad.
All those motors are without torque. Can't compare to a good V8.
Much as I rag on Corvettes, secretly I lust for a fast Mustang. They just look good and sound badass.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/new-car-reviews/track-tested-ford-shelby-gt500-vs-porsche-cayman-gt4-4-0/
It was this car. The disconnect between the chassis, which was really decent for a street car, and the engine, which was a Subaru Outback, was pretty intense.
>>> those awkward and unpleasant water-cooled 911s made after 1999
That's just, like, *your opinion*, man!