I agree, and it's a problem common to ALL cars that get facelifted. The problem is that the original nose was designed along with the rest of the body, but the new nose wasn't, so it's not a good match. It's sort of like trying to repaint only one metallic body panel - it'll never look right.
GM used to do multiples at the same time which is why their facelifts in the Seventies and the Eighties were often so successful. See: 1975 to 1977 Cutlass
Blasphemy time! I actually like the urethane-bumper second-gen Camaros and Bandit-nose Trans Ams better that the early versions. So, sometimes it works, but generally doesn't.
Is that because you came of age during the urethane era? That was certainly the case for me; I thought the original ones were crummy old cars, which they were when I was car-conscious in 1976.
Interesting point. I've long suspected that my love of Hair Metal is in part based on the fact that I was born in 1976, and it was the musical style in fashion during my formative years when my opinions were taking shape. I'm sure there's some of that to the later second- and all third-gen F-bodies as well. Though, I definitely like the high-nose '72 455 TAs as well, and nobody will ever convince me a hatchback is an aspirational vehicle.
I'd say you picked a perfect car to illustrate my point. The W212 is a boxy, angular vehicle and its original front end is a holistic part of that design aesthetic. The facelift, especially the headlights, is too soft and organic to fit the rest of the body.
It’s bizarre how completely the Probe has disappeared from our nation’s roads. I’ve never seen one at Ford days at Carlisle. They were all over the place in the early 90’s. From what I remember, driving a co-worker’s Probe GT, they had ridiculous torque steer. I think Mazda’s version was gorgeous, but can’t remember what it was called.
The 1st gen MX-6 was a dog’s breakfast. The 2nd gen was better. Tom Matano said they took inspiration from Giugiaro’s design of the Alfa Romeo GT Veloce.
in early '67 i ordered a 442 convertible just the way i wanted it. i felt for the rambler ambassador salesman who practically pleaded for me to make an offer on an ambassador convertible. i remembered this because their big deal was the configuration of the top mechanism to not take away rear shoulder room. i loved the 442 but i do remember my curiosity about that linkage and the car had wonderful front armchairs--not bucket seats.
"Why get a four-seater when there are perfectly good two-seat convertibles out there? That’s correct: so you can put people in the back seats."
Yep. Especially small people. My boys are young enough to love riding with the top down even if there is a hurricane in their faces at 35 mph. Two-seaters were off the menu in the shopping process that led to my convertible purchase.
On this Mustang, maybe it marks me as a boring old fart, but I literally cannot see a single way in which I would like this car better than a dead-standard GT vert. And the latter is available with three pedals.
The real reason: 'See honey, it has a back seat for the kids.'
Only a few of us can pull off the two seater and mommy-mobile combo as a two vehicle fleet. Elite tier is motorcycle and mommy-mobile, but I've no personal experience with that.
That said, I can't say I'd want to ride in the back of a vert at anything over parade speeds. Except in Dallas. Faster in Dallas.
For now, we're a three-car family: small city car (Bolt), family bus (Highlander), and toy car. The wife thinks that's too many cars but in the end it's up to her whether she wants to consolidate the two practical cars into one. She'll have to juggle her love of parking the tiny car with her wish to drive something that conveys status among her peer group. I have a reservation in for a Volvo EX90, and she can decide whether to pull the trigger on it.
I rented the hairdresser's version from a Hertz rival and had a blast. I don't know that I could live with it. The coyotes sound great but no matter how slow the operator is trying to go they always scream "Give me a ticket!"
I did the same a half dozen years ago. Mustang with the eco-boost. Having spent a lot of time in turbo Dodges back in the day, I thought it was pretty good. Certainly seemed like a call back and something I could live with if I had to.
Gotta say though, if I was spending my own money for something in this class it would be a V6 Challenger. The V6 does well in my van and I like the extra room the larger platform provides.
Passed my mid-50s now and really regretting the fact that I can't buy a modern Olds 88. Would have loved it if Chevrolet had turned their now abandoned Impala platform into a two door Monte-Carlo or something equivalent.
I was also impressed by the pentastar in our van and couldn't have been any less impressed by the 5.7 in my Challenger. V6 wouldn't sound as good though.
Great series of books. I loved the original when I was a kid (there is a pretty good ABC After School version of it around, too). I bought the set, there are three now, for my son when he was little But I am pretty sure that at least one of my daughters read them, too.
More people need to see the light that convertible mustangs are the best mustangs. People get all ‘herp derp racecar” over a platform that NEEDS damn near a full cage to be worth a shit chassis wise - S197+ non withstanding.
I suppose I am biased however in my choice of obnoxious summer daily driver shitbox.
The 10spd is the new standard. It’s ridiculously good especially with a power adder. So much that you STILL can’t get a good manual box outside of a GT350 or a Mach1. The MT82 is awesome for the deep gearing but is absurdly fragile. It’s derived from a box truck transmission and the actual ratings are comically low - but given it’s rated for an 8k lb vehicle they survive in a mustang.
I should probably spend the $100 and at least see how I like the vert. Only other S550 driven was a GT350 and it was seriously lacking in the tq department.
Former (and possibly future) GT350 owner here and the torque complaint is valid. I shouldn't have to work that hard to get a sub-5-second 0-60 out of a $70,000 race car. But Christ alive, the thing can _turn_.
They belong on the track. Once they’re wicked up they are great fun corner to corner and the way it makes power seems to make it hard to unsettle. The voodoo would be great fun in a lighter car and I know they are bonkers with a power adder. Their reputations make me a bit leery failure wise. 100+ psi of oil pressure freaks people out unless they are familiar with most modular fords.
One thing that stuck was the steering and that I wasn’t a fan of track mode. It was too twitchy.
As far as I know the later cars are safer. It would seem the Gen2 engine variants tend to live. Fortunately failures look to occur earlier on in their lives so if your penchant is to track, buying a non museum piece may be in your favor.
Personally I’d rather rebuild heads and keep eyes on aftermarket valve guides in an LS7. Imo it’s a much better hand grenade. Love mustangs, own 3 currently with one a modular 4v I built myself. But GM makes a better hammer.
GS LS3 car or Z51 LT1 / GS, slap a cam in and go party your nuts off.
I’ve got a C7 GS, but am feeling the need for another V8. I’m not a track guy, I just like great handling cars with stick shifts for the twisty roads where I live in North Carolina. The high revving Voodoo appeals to me.
I rented a convertible Mustang for a Keys trip a couple of years ago. It nearly put me off Mustangs. For some reason it felt more claustrophobic with the top down than with it up. Very strange.
I’m very glad I got my GT a couple of years ago. It’s a keeper. I thought the variable exhaust was a cheap gimmick, but I appreciate being able to quiet it down when appropriate. Of course, I might be the only guy in America with an ‘08 Harley that still sports it’s factory exhaust.
For something designed as a boulevard cruiser that handling is bizarre. Also, having a hood like that should require something underneath to justify it's presence. A tall manifold, a couple of turbos...something. This is exactly the opposite of the sleeper...which is the point, of course. It's just eminently not me.
Special editions of performance-oriented vehicles should have engine parts coming through the hood or fenders - shaker scoops or side exhausts, to drive home the point that this is a special car.
Also, certain exterior parts like spoilers, ground effects or wheels should only be available on the hi-po versions. Because if you pony up for the nice version, why should it look like the base car? Or more to the point, why should the base car get to look like the premium edition?
You don't want a repeat of the New Edge Mustang's badge-only GT or third-gen Camaro RS appearances, do you?
Meh, I'm a fan of the Q approach. Besides, the bling should at least be functional. Are the hood vents on this car even open? They look to be too far forward to assist in radiator cooling and far too small to reduce front end lift.
Maybe I should've been more specific. The New Edge Mustang is one of those cars where all the various versions are nearly identical, and at times you have to squint to tell a GT from a V6 at a distance.
Except for the Saleens, Mach 1 and Terminator, of course.
Thank you for the reminder that I had really ought to get another Mustang before it's too late.
As much as I'd love a Viper... a family of three makes it hard to justify, especially when most of the joy of the thing (for me) will come from being able to use it to haul my family around on weekends and summer evenings.
I had 2018 GT for a long while (well for me at least, a guy who tends to get a new car every year or so out of boredom and a fatalistic view towards money), and boy do I miss that car more than any other.
As a daily driver they are pretty not great, which is why my mind wanders away from them and why I sold my last one for some other stuff. Gas mileage sucks, the interior space is ancient and of pretty poor quality, the seats aren’t the most supportive, the stereo is REALLY bad, and the ride is best described as fair to middling.
However.
However even with the much-maligned MT82, the Gen III Coyote paired with a stick is a divine driving experience that is impossible to get bored with.
My mind wanders all over for what Im getting next, now that my anodyne Volvo S60 has gotten a bit too stale for me. I’ve already owned three mustangs so it feels silly to go back for a fourth. But, the next gen looks hideous in photos, and the Camaro and challenger are as good as dead already. The romantic inside me tickles at the notion of getting “the last of something.” Why not? Why not do one last V8, six speed tour of duty?
I should have been clear, I’ve not had any issues at all with the transmission, it’s just notchy when shifting. And the Getrags are made in China. I think the Tremecs in the GT350 and Mach 1 are made in Mexico.
Price is a big factor here; as appealing as it is, the real Mach - as opposed to the egg-shaped electric abomination - is bloody expensive!
Of 500 new listings on Cars.com right now, just 70 come in under $60k, and none of them undercut $55 g's.
That's tough to justify when they are still sporadically minting SS 1LEs (all listed under $53,915 on the same site currently), and you can find new ZL1s under $70,000.
You're right, but I'll take a crack at it: if what the Camaro does better on-track means more to you than what the Mustang does on the street, buy a race car and a street car, because you'll end up with both eventually!
Also true. But, of the two, the Camaro is the one you could maybe afford to supplement with another car in most tax brackets. If you want the best on-street pony, shouldn't you be shopping Challengers?
I haven’t kept up with the Mach 1, but I believe you get all the performance pack items, plus the premium interior options, plus the Tremec, plus some things unavailable on the GT, such as a diff cooler.
I have a ‘20 GT with the performance pack and the premium interior. MSRP was a hair under 52k. The 350GT was around 65 if I remember.
But in the halcyon days of November, 2020, mine went out the door for a little under 43, while the GT350 was getting full MSRP.
They are tricky cars to buy used, cause a lot of them get beat on.
Man, I bought my 2018 brand new off the lot in 2019 for TEN THOUSAND under sticker with absolutely zero negotiation on my end. I sold it 18 months later for a hair more than what I paid for it originally. That same car in the condition I sold it would now cost at least $35k or more.
Loud exhaust and/or big, knobby tires that make so much noise I can hear them on the other car in my CX-5 at highway speeds with the deafening wind and road noise I'm making on my own seem exhausting. But if I was in my 20s I would not hesitate to torture myself on the road for a few grins here and there. I'm actually going to be looking for a much quieter car for my next purchase...
"the delay between request and fulfilment is enough to make a FedEx Ground driver sit up and take notice."
I LOL'd at that one. As someone who by happenstance met the founder of FedEx while working at Whole Foods, and came to admire the people and process which catapulted that company to where it is today after reading the book he wrote about the whole endeavor, I always felt especially disappointed when FedEx would inevitably and invariably lose critical shipments for me after I made the jump from "job" to "career".
I'm pretty sure a load of parts wound up at a Burger King once.
It isn't your imagination. But Fedex ground has been the worst. The final miles in many places isn't under FedEx (the express part) control. It is a hodgepodge of independent contractors who control the routes with varying degrees of poor service.
My mom's got more than 20 years at UPS. UPS hires temp workers and rents 3rd party vans for the holiday season. The vans are a hodgepodge of box E450's, Isuzu's, and European-American vans. None of them have the walkthrough design of a UPS truck, so getting stuff in and out is more time consuming. The workers themselves are the worst of the worst and will steal anything, both other worker's belongings and the packages. At any given time, something is being destroyed, ran over, crunched in a conveyer belt, or stolen. But, it is a temporary arrangement and normally UPS owns all their vehicles. That doesn't mean they are the only ones delivering your package. USPS specializes in last mile delivery, and often contracts with the two other services to move things across longer distances.
We received a package from someone in a UPS vest driving what looked like a personal sedan. I do hope this is a holiday thing and not a new business model. UPS has been great for us so far. I would hate to see them circle the drain as well.
I’ve not seen that from UPS so far. FedEx was always an airline with a trucking component. UPS a trucking fleet with an air component. My set of Chapman Mfg screwdriver bits was very promptly delivered by the humble USPS. Thanks for the tip on them, they are very nice.
Santa brought the family a Champan too. It was a matter of like two days via first class mail. Same with a recent book purchase from a vendor on Abe books. Estimated delivery 30 December (oh no!) got here on Tuesday and the mailman put in on the front stoop instead of in the box.
SnapOn doesn't know (in their own words). They have requested a No Charge Order as replacement, and last week I was told I would be contacted when the No Charge Order is shipped. Not a peep so far.
FedEx is horrible! I had a couple computers show two days late apparently because the idiot driver didn’t feel like delivering the packages! I finally made my way over to their customer service area at the local hub to pick them up! This after having to go through their toll-free number twice, which of course connected to a Bangalore slum!
The transformation of Whole Foods was swift. I remember they had the most extravagant signage, samples, diverse buffees, especially breakfast, even live bands sometimes. I remember one the few high school peers who could get a job bragging about his pay, I forgot but in the teens back when $8 was the norm. He was proud of his Hyundai Sonata V6.
When I worked there in the early 2000s we implemented a minimum $10/hr wage (I hired in at less but by then was making more anyways). By the time I graduated I was a supervisor making mid to high teens, can't quite recall how much but it was good money for a recent high school grad on the east coast. Stayed on in college as a seasonal employee, we'd come visit family for a week or two every summer and winter and I'd help out during the holiday rush. The fact that they'd keep me in their systems so I could work 2-3 nonconsecutive weeks a year, at my old pay rate and position, was really something.
I loved working for that company, and better yet I FELT good working for them, because they were forward-thinking and seemed to genuinely care about people and the planet without tipping over into the weird wokeness of our current times.
Certainly can't speak for it now, but CEO John Mackey seems like his same old self, and so far Amazon seems to be allowing them plenty of autonomy.
Great to see a car review and I agree that the S550 Stang with a coyote is a great platform. I’ve had two, a ‘18 base GT with 6spd and a ‘19 Bullitt. Neither were daily drivers but as kids approached middle school age the severely compromised back seats made it hard to use for anything more than solo trips to the office or the rare date when we had a sitter. Found myself choosing my daily (Wrangler 4xe) even in the summer, so no more Bullitt. Sold last spring. Hindsight, I wouldn’t have traded up to the Bullitt which, while great in many ways, was not quite the Shelby I really wanted, and kept the base GT. In any case, the S550s are great cars when in 5.0 form paired to a manual.
I was talking myself into spending the extra cake for the GT350 when Ford announced that they were halting production. It seemed like they all disappeared within days.
You’re right, those seemed to go quick once that was announced. I regret not pulling the trigger on one as well. The GT500s are so much more expensive and no stick. Those 350s sure seemed like the sweet spot.
Man, do I want one of those. I’ve wanted a Mustang since I fell in love with the 86 GT as a kid. Almost bought a 2012 GT coupe with a stick when I bought my Charger, but the Dodge was a better fit for my life at the time. If I could free up the cash, I’d get a Mach 1 in a heartbeat. It looks like the sweet spot in the lineup to me.
Saw a Mach 1 at our local cars and coffee recently that made my 2012 GT look a little shop worn. The Mach is a stunning car. I'm working through that forgiveness VS permission thing. Keeping the current GT isn't a bad fallback considering the ultimate cost of divorce.
Would love to hear more about this. I'm guessing a lot is Coyote > Voodoo for most people and also cost with the way the used GT350 market is these days.
Related rant: the GT350 has been pretty much at the top of the list for me as far as aspirational vehicles go. Really since they came out but more so after I got to drive a relative's in 2019. Said relative wanted to sell me his (<1 year old and maybe 2k miles) during the winter of 2019/2020 for $50k. It wasn't in the financial cards for me at the time and he ended up selling it last year for quite the profit. I can still hear the voodoo running up to redline, I'll never forget the sound or the driving experience.
Unless you're going to extensively track the car, the Coyote will do more of what you want with less hassle, the bodywork and suspension are happier on the street, and you get the combination of most reliable Mustang V8 with most reliable transmission, at a lower cost, brand new.
A friend and I were just discussing how much we liked the Coyote engine yesterday, I think you'd see it swapped into vintage cars more often if its outside dimensions weren't so large compared to a pushrod V8. In a world where the vast majority of the population venerates the GM LS engines (and I understand the their logic) it will instead be the Coyote and the Gen III Hemi I miss most.
Also, I'm told that if you want an 8k rpm V8, you can skip the Voodoo-powered GT350 and just tune the 5.0, the guy who runs the local dyno shop has been spinning his brother's 5.0 Mustang to 8500 rpm with great results, and he claims it sounds great doing so.
Billet oil pump gears (OPGs) are an absolute must if doing so. The rest of the caveats come from oiling. Once the gears are installed the car is pretty safe for straightline and 90% of its customers. I don’t think I’d trust it like a Voodoo if you’re spending extended time at 8500+ like a road race application.
4.6 and coyote bearings are not exactly the largest and most durable things. Also much of the oil pressure regulation is in the cam tolerances. You really should look into timing chain control esp on the older stuff. Valvesprings become another requirement / ECM spark management as well.
I know that’s slightly off tangent but the Coyote takes all the great parts of an older 4v and gives you the ability to really utilize 6800+ on factory parts. Still some parts are interchangeable internally like the rods. I believe we were twisting my buddy’s GEN1 to 7800 with a reflash and a couple bolt ons.
My iPhone must’ve cut out a sentence regarding capacity regarding the “caveats”, but having a higher volume pan is also a notable. The earlier stuff didn’t drain back as well and would suck the pan dry along with half ass windage trays.
I agree, and it's a problem common to ALL cars that get facelifted. The problem is that the original nose was designed along with the rest of the body, but the new nose wasn't, so it's not a good match. It's sort of like trying to repaint only one metallic body panel - it'll never look right.
GM used to do multiples at the same time which is why their facelifts in the Seventies and the Eighties were often so successful. See: 1975 to 1977 Cutlass
Blasphemy time! I actually like the urethane-bumper second-gen Camaros and Bandit-nose Trans Ams better that the early versions. So, sometimes it works, but generally doesn't.
Is that because you came of age during the urethane era? That was certainly the case for me; I thought the original ones were crummy old cars, which they were when I was car-conscious in 1976.
Interesting point. I've long suspected that my love of Hair Metal is in part based on the fact that I was born in 1976, and it was the musical style in fashion during my formative years when my opinions were taking shape. I'm sure there's some of that to the later second- and all third-gen F-bodies as well. Though, I definitely like the high-nose '72 455 TAs as well, and nobody will ever convince me a hatchback is an aspirational vehicle.
I *know* that is why I like e30s, e21s and e24s with the chrome diving board bumpers.
This is why neo retro Bronco is a miss for me.
It should look like the bricks of my youth!
Counterpoint: W212 E-Class.
I'd say you picked a perfect car to illustrate my point. The W212 is a boxy, angular vehicle and its original front end is a holistic part of that design aesthetic. The facelift, especially the headlights, is too soft and organic to fit the rest of the body.
This is a tough one because the pre-facelift car has so much more character, particularly in the fenders, but I'm not sure it all works together.
I'm pretty sure. Might you be able to get Sajeev to comment?
He's a reader here so...
the facelift w212 (especially the wagon imo) took a very sharp looking car and turned it into a jellybean blob, even in the 63 amg wagon
at least with the w213 they kinda rectified it
! Did you say FWD Mustang ?! .
Happy birthday old man .
-Nate
No sir, I said that FWD drivers might want to try it.
Everybody knows an FWD Mustang is really called... a PROBE!
I still see a locally driven Probe down here in sleepy small town NC.
Got it ~ I musta been tired or summat .
I loved the bit about getting airborne on the i405 ~
-Nate
It’s bizarre how completely the Probe has disappeared from our nation’s roads. I’ve never seen one at Ford days at Carlisle. They were all over the place in the early 90’s. From what I remember, driving a co-worker’s Probe GT, they had ridiculous torque steer. I think Mazda’s version was gorgeous, but can’t remember what it was called.
MX-6
I thought that was it, but I looked up the MX-6 and it wasn’t as pretty as I remembered. Maybe nostalgia or perhaps it looked better in real life.
I totally forgot about the MX6.
Other cars I’ve seen on the road in the last year that I totally forgot about.
Infiniti M45, Mazda 323 GTX, Mazda MX3, Chevrolet Celebrity.
The 1st gen MX-6 was a dog’s breakfast. The 2nd gen was better. Tom Matano said they took inspiration from Giugiaro’s design of the Alfa Romeo GT Veloce.
I always though the second-generation Probe GT was a cool car. It just had a terrible name.
in early '67 i ordered a 442 convertible just the way i wanted it. i felt for the rambler ambassador salesman who practically pleaded for me to make an offer on an ambassador convertible. i remembered this because their big deal was the configuration of the top mechanism to not take away rear shoulder room. i loved the 442 but i do remember my curiosity about that linkage and the car had wonderful front armchairs--not bucket seats.
Ah for the days when the customer was permitted to choose the options!
And I bet customer could choose between more than just shades-of-black and white paint.
"Why get a four-seater when there are perfectly good two-seat convertibles out there? That’s correct: so you can put people in the back seats."
Yep. Especially small people. My boys are young enough to love riding with the top down even if there is a hurricane in their faces at 35 mph. Two-seaters were off the menu in the shopping process that led to my convertible purchase.
On this Mustang, maybe it marks me as a boring old fart, but I literally cannot see a single way in which I would like this car better than a dead-standard GT vert. And the latter is available with three pedals.
The real reason: 'See honey, it has a back seat for the kids.'
Only a few of us can pull off the two seater and mommy-mobile combo as a two vehicle fleet. Elite tier is motorcycle and mommy-mobile, but I've no personal experience with that.
That said, I can't say I'd want to ride in the back of a vert at anything over parade speeds. Except in Dallas. Faster in Dallas.
For now, we're a three-car family: small city car (Bolt), family bus (Highlander), and toy car. The wife thinks that's too many cars but in the end it's up to her whether she wants to consolidate the two practical cars into one. She'll have to juggle her love of parking the tiny car with her wish to drive something that conveys status among her peer group. I have a reservation in for a Volvo EX90, and she can decide whether to pull the trigger on it.
Biggest advantage of a 2 door is nobody wants you to drive to the bar. My truck is a 2 door no ac model. I'm not the dd till winter
I rented the hairdresser's version from a Hertz rival and had a blast. I don't know that I could live with it. The coyotes sound great but no matter how slow the operator is trying to go they always scream "Give me a ticket!"
I did the same a half dozen years ago. Mustang with the eco-boost. Having spent a lot of time in turbo Dodges back in the day, I thought it was pretty good. Certainly seemed like a call back and something I could live with if I had to.
Gotta say though, if I was spending my own money for something in this class it would be a V6 Challenger. The V6 does well in my van and I like the extra room the larger platform provides.
Passed my mid-50s now and really regretting the fact that I can't buy a modern Olds 88. Would have loved it if Chevrolet had turned their now abandoned Impala platform into a two door Monte-Carlo or something equivalent.
I was also impressed by the pentastar in our van and couldn't have been any less impressed by the 5.7 in my Challenger. V6 wouldn't sound as good though.
I just make the cool engine noises with my mouth.
It just now occurred to me that I cannot recall seeing The Mouse and the Motorcycle mentioned here.
Great series of books. I loved the original when I was a kid (there is a pretty good ABC After School version of it around, too). I bought the set, there are three now, for my son when he was little But I am pretty sure that at least one of my daughters read them, too.
I was very impressed by a v6 charger I had as a rental car earlier this year. It's head and shoulders better than its competitors.
More people need to see the light that convertible mustangs are the best mustangs. People get all ‘herp derp racecar” over a platform that NEEDS damn near a full cage to be worth a shit chassis wise - S197+ non withstanding.
I suppose I am biased however in my choice of obnoxious summer daily driver shitbox.
The 10spd is the new standard. It’s ridiculously good especially with a power adder. So much that you STILL can’t get a good manual box outside of a GT350 or a Mach1. The MT82 is awesome for the deep gearing but is absurdly fragile. It’s derived from a box truck transmission and the actual ratings are comically low - but given it’s rated for an 8k lb vehicle they survive in a mustang.
I should probably spend the $100 and at least see how I like the vert. Only other S550 driven was a GT350 and it was seriously lacking in the tq department.
Former (and possibly future) GT350 owner here and the torque complaint is valid. I shouldn't have to work that hard to get a sub-5-second 0-60 out of a $70,000 race car. But Christ alive, the thing can _turn_.
They belong on the track. Once they’re wicked up they are great fun corner to corner and the way it makes power seems to make it hard to unsettle. The voodoo would be great fun in a lighter car and I know they are bonkers with a power adder. Their reputations make me a bit leery failure wise. 100+ psi of oil pressure freaks people out unless they are familiar with most modular fords.
One thing that stuck was the steering and that I wasn’t a fan of track mode. It was too twitchy.
The oil consumption problem makes me leery of buying one. Did Ford fix that issue after a certain model year?
As far as I know the later cars are safer. It would seem the Gen2 engine variants tend to live. Fortunately failures look to occur earlier on in their lives so if your penchant is to track, buying a non museum piece may be in your favor.
Personally I’d rather rebuild heads and keep eyes on aftermarket valve guides in an LS7. Imo it’s a much better hand grenade. Love mustangs, own 3 currently with one a modular 4v I built myself. But GM makes a better hammer.
GS LS3 car or Z51 LT1 / GS, slap a cam in and go party your nuts off.
“…much better hand grenade” Hah!
I’ve got a C7 GS, but am feeling the need for another V8. I’m not a track guy, I just like great handling cars with stick shifts for the twisty roads where I live in North Carolina. The high revving Voodoo appeals to me.
You’ll probably love the 350 then. They are exceptional in that department. If you’ve still reservations a PP2 car would be at the top of my list.
I rented a convertible Mustang for a Keys trip a couple of years ago. It nearly put me off Mustangs. For some reason it felt more claustrophobic with the top down than with it up. Very strange.
I’m very glad I got my GT a couple of years ago. It’s a keeper. I thought the variable exhaust was a cheap gimmick, but I appreciate being able to quiet it down when appropriate. Of course, I might be the only guy in America with an ‘08 Harley that still sports it’s factory exhaust.
Thanks, Jack.
For something designed as a boulevard cruiser that handling is bizarre. Also, having a hood like that should require something underneath to justify it's presence. A tall manifold, a couple of turbos...something. This is exactly the opposite of the sleeper...which is the point, of course. It's just eminently not me.
Special editions of performance-oriented vehicles should have engine parts coming through the hood or fenders - shaker scoops or side exhausts, to drive home the point that this is a special car.
Also, certain exterior parts like spoilers, ground effects or wheels should only be available on the hi-po versions. Because if you pony up for the nice version, why should it look like the base car? Or more to the point, why should the base car get to look like the premium edition?
You don't want a repeat of the New Edge Mustang's badge-only GT or third-gen Camaro RS appearances, do you?
Meh, I'm a fan of the Q approach. Besides, the bling should at least be functional. Are the hood vents on this car even open? They look to be too far forward to assist in radiator cooling and far too small to reduce front end lift.
Right, I agree. Vents should function. My point is that I don't like it when the V8 and Turbo 4 cars look identical from a hundred feet.
Wait a minute. When was there a badge-only New Edge GT?
Maybe I should've been more specific. The New Edge Mustang is one of those cars where all the various versions are nearly identical, and at times you have to squint to tell a GT from a V6 at a distance.
Except for the Saleens, Mach 1 and Terminator, of course.
Oh yeah. And some of the GTs, like the anniversary cars, looked identical to the anniversary V6es.
In a just world, Dom DeLuise from "Blazing Saddles" would be screaming "WRONG!!!" at Ford for doing that.
Now I have Camptown Races in my head
Were you ripping donuts with it on Angels Crest?
I'm afraid not!
Matt caught someone up on Angels Crest in one - https://youtu.be/LHmURjXN87k?t=1146
Nah if had been me I'd have run them down and disappeared. :)
Thank you for the reminder that I had really ought to get another Mustang before it's too late.
As much as I'd love a Viper... a family of three makes it hard to justify, especially when most of the joy of the thing (for me) will come from being able to use it to haul my family around on weekends and summer evenings.
Vipers are best enjoyed for yourself. The practicality differences and utilitarian qualities are incomparable. You should totally buy one.
Especially if you can drive one well, cause then all you're doing is scaring your passenger.
I had 2018 GT for a long while (well for me at least, a guy who tends to get a new car every year or so out of boredom and a fatalistic view towards money), and boy do I miss that car more than any other.
As a daily driver they are pretty not great, which is why my mind wanders away from them and why I sold my last one for some other stuff. Gas mileage sucks, the interior space is ancient and of pretty poor quality, the seats aren’t the most supportive, the stereo is REALLY bad, and the ride is best described as fair to middling.
However.
However even with the much-maligned MT82, the Gen III Coyote paired with a stick is a divine driving experience that is impossible to get bored with.
My mind wanders all over for what Im getting next, now that my anodyne Volvo S60 has gotten a bit too stale for me. I’ve already owned three mustangs so it feels silly to go back for a fourth. But, the next gen looks hideous in photos, and the Camaro and challenger are as good as dead already. The romantic inside me tickles at the notion of getting “the last of something.” Why not? Why not do one last V8, six speed tour of duty?
Do you know if the manual on the GT is still the crunchy type? I haven't been following the suit.
I have the Getrag. Its pretty crunchy.
I can't speak for the 2024s, but yeah it's still the Getrag MT82 at least for the current gen.
I will say that in the ~40,000 miles I put on that transmission across two different cars, I never had a single problem with it.
I should have been clear, I’ve not had any issues at all with the transmission, it’s just notchy when shifting. And the Getrags are made in China. I think the Tremecs in the GT350 and Mach 1 are made in Mexico.
That's why you buy a Mach 1!
Is it worth the $20k premium just for the Tremec though?
Same way its worth the premium for a divorce sometimes.. plus in this case you'll get money back when you sell!
Price is a big factor here; as appealing as it is, the real Mach - as opposed to the egg-shaped electric abomination - is bloody expensive!
Of 500 new listings on Cars.com right now, just 70 come in under $60k, and none of them undercut $55 g's.
That's tough to justify when they are still sporadically minting SS 1LEs (all listed under $53,915 on the same site currently), and you can find new ZL1s under $70,000.
You're right, but I'll take a crack at it: if what the Camaro does better on-track means more to you than what the Mustang does on the street, buy a race car and a street car, because you'll end up with both eventually!
Also true. But, of the two, the Camaro is the one you could maybe afford to supplement with another car in most tax brackets. If you want the best on-street pony, shouldn't you be shopping Challengers?
I haven’t kept up with the Mach 1, but I believe you get all the performance pack items, plus the premium interior options, plus the Tremec, plus some things unavailable on the GT, such as a diff cooler.
I have a ‘20 GT with the performance pack and the premium interior. MSRP was a hair under 52k. The 350GT was around 65 if I remember.
But in the halcyon days of November, 2020, mine went out the door for a little under 43, while the GT350 was getting full MSRP.
They are tricky cars to buy used, cause a lot of them get beat on.
Man, I bought my 2018 brand new off the lot in 2019 for TEN THOUSAND under sticker with absolutely zero negotiation on my end. I sold it 18 months later for a hair more than what I paid for it originally. That same car in the condition I sold it would now cost at least $35k or more.
It’s upsetting to say the least.
Loud exhaust and/or big, knobby tires that make so much noise I can hear them on the other car in my CX-5 at highway speeds with the deafening wind and road noise I'm making on my own seem exhausting. But if I was in my 20s I would not hesitate to torture myself on the road for a few grins here and there. I'm actually going to be looking for a much quieter car for my next purchase...
"the delay between request and fulfilment is enough to make a FedEx Ground driver sit up and take notice."
I LOL'd at that one. As someone who by happenstance met the founder of FedEx while working at Whole Foods, and came to admire the people and process which catapulted that company to where it is today after reading the book he wrote about the whole endeavor, I always felt especially disappointed when FedEx would inevitably and invariably lose critical shipments for me after I made the jump from "job" to "career".
I'm pretty sure a load of parts wound up at a Burger King once.
Is it my imagination or has service at logistics companies like FedEx and UPS declined over the past three years?
It isn't your imagination. But Fedex ground has been the worst. The final miles in many places isn't under FedEx (the express part) control. It is a hodgepodge of independent contractors who control the routes with varying degrees of poor service.
UPS is doing that now as well which is why two very nice Tactile Turn pens are currently "in the wind" rather than at my house.
My mom's got more than 20 years at UPS. UPS hires temp workers and rents 3rd party vans for the holiday season. The vans are a hodgepodge of box E450's, Isuzu's, and European-American vans. None of them have the walkthrough design of a UPS truck, so getting stuff in and out is more time consuming. The workers themselves are the worst of the worst and will steal anything, both other worker's belongings and the packages. At any given time, something is being destroyed, ran over, crunched in a conveyer belt, or stolen. But, it is a temporary arrangement and normally UPS owns all their vehicles. That doesn't mean they are the only ones delivering your package. USPS specializes in last mile delivery, and often contracts with the two other services to move things across longer distances.
We received a package from someone in a UPS vest driving what looked like a personal sedan. I do hope this is a holiday thing and not a new business model. UPS has been great for us so far. I would hate to see them circle the drain as well.
I’ve not seen that from UPS so far. FedEx was always an airline with a trucking component. UPS a trucking fleet with an air component. My set of Chapman Mfg screwdriver bits was very promptly delivered by the humble USPS. Thanks for the tip on them, they are very nice.
There's apparently a Chapman employee or two on here so let's hope they see it.
Santa brought the family a Champan too. It was a matter of like two days via first class mail. Same with a recent book purchase from a vendor on Abe books. Estimated delivery 30 December (oh no!) got here on Tuesday and the mailman put in on the front stoop instead of in the box.
At least yours shipped!
They were shipped within a day or two and delivered a couple of days later. I’m in Pennsylvania. I’m very pleased with the transaction.
This was the little welcome kit, they had email out earlier stating mine was liable to be in the Dec 12-16 batch.
I'm just antsy to see how the copper looks!
They could be in Quebec, the way my SnapOn screwdriver has been since Nov. 25th...
Twenty days! How did it get there in the first place!
SnapOn doesn't know (in their own words). They have requested a No Charge Order as replacement, and last week I was told I would be contacted when the No Charge Order is shipped. Not a peep so far.
Show me a company where service HASN'T declined this century.
I got one! But I am too chicken to post it on here.
Let it rip, ashley madison was on JB's race car already.
This is true: for much of my SCCA career I've claimed the dual sponsorship of Ashley Madison and Nathan's Hot Dogs!
FedEx is horrible! I had a couple computers show two days late apparently because the idiot driver didn’t feel like delivering the packages! I finally made my way over to their customer service area at the local hub to pick them up! This after having to go through their toll-free number twice, which of course connected to a Bangalore slum!
The transformation of Whole Foods was swift. I remember they had the most extravagant signage, samples, diverse buffees, especially breakfast, even live bands sometimes. I remember one the few high school peers who could get a job bragging about his pay, I forgot but in the teens back when $8 was the norm. He was proud of his Hyundai Sonata V6.
When I worked there in the early 2000s we implemented a minimum $10/hr wage (I hired in at less but by then was making more anyways). By the time I graduated I was a supervisor making mid to high teens, can't quite recall how much but it was good money for a recent high school grad on the east coast. Stayed on in college as a seasonal employee, we'd come visit family for a week or two every summer and winter and I'd help out during the holiday rush. The fact that they'd keep me in their systems so I could work 2-3 nonconsecutive weeks a year, at my old pay rate and position, was really something.
I loved working for that company, and better yet I FELT good working for them, because they were forward-thinking and seemed to genuinely care about people and the planet without tipping over into the weird wokeness of our current times.
Certainly can't speak for it now, but CEO John Mackey seems like his same old self, and so far Amazon seems to be allowing them plenty of autonomy.
I’d buy a mustang if I wasn’t pretentious. If Lincoln or Aston Martin would rebadge one and charge 2x, I’m in.
If you want a "Lincoln Mustang", there's always the '56 Continental Mk II. In profile, the original Mustang was a scaled down Conti.
The Mark VII was a barely disguised Fox Mustang with air suspension and a continental kit.
Mark VIIIs were dope
Until the air springs let go and you're riding the bump stops like a five-dollar whore.
Great to see a car review and I agree that the S550 Stang with a coyote is a great platform. I’ve had two, a ‘18 base GT with 6spd and a ‘19 Bullitt. Neither were daily drivers but as kids approached middle school age the severely compromised back seats made it hard to use for anything more than solo trips to the office or the rare date when we had a sitter. Found myself choosing my daily (Wrangler 4xe) even in the summer, so no more Bullitt. Sold last spring. Hindsight, I wouldn’t have traded up to the Bullitt which, while great in many ways, was not quite the Shelby I really wanted, and kept the base GT. In any case, the S550s are great cars when in 5.0 form paired to a manual.
I was talking myself into spending the extra cake for the GT350 when Ford announced that they were halting production. It seemed like they all disappeared within days.
You’re right, those seemed to go quick once that was announced. I regret not pulling the trigger on one as well. The GT500s are so much more expensive and no stick. Those 350s sure seemed like the sweet spot.
The Mach 1 is probably a better car. Don't tell anyone.
Man, do I want one of those. I’ve wanted a Mustang since I fell in love with the 86 GT as a kid. Almost bought a 2012 GT coupe with a stick when I bought my Charger, but the Dodge was a better fit for my life at the time. If I could free up the cash, I’d get a Mach 1 in a heartbeat. It looks like the sweet spot in the lineup to me.
Saw a Mach 1 at our local cars and coffee recently that made my 2012 GT look a little shop worn. The Mach is a stunning car. I'm working through that forgiveness VS permission thing. Keeping the current GT isn't a bad fallback considering the ultimate cost of divorce.
The Mach 1 is probably a better car. Don't tell anyone.
Would love to hear more about this. I'm guessing a lot is Coyote > Voodoo for most people and also cost with the way the used GT350 market is these days.
Related rant: the GT350 has been pretty much at the top of the list for me as far as aspirational vehicles go. Really since they came out but more so after I got to drive a relative's in 2019. Said relative wanted to sell me his (<1 year old and maybe 2k miles) during the winter of 2019/2020 for $50k. It wasn't in the financial cards for me at the time and he ended up selling it last year for quite the profit. I can still hear the voodoo running up to redline, I'll never forget the sound or the driving experience.
Unless you're going to extensively track the car, the Coyote will do more of what you want with less hassle, the bodywork and suspension are happier on the street, and you get the combination of most reliable Mustang V8 with most reliable transmission, at a lower cost, brand new.
Damn shame they had to name such a great engine after The Cockroach of Predators.
A friend and I were just discussing how much we liked the Coyote engine yesterday, I think you'd see it swapped into vintage cars more often if its outside dimensions weren't so large compared to a pushrod V8. In a world where the vast majority of the population venerates the GM LS engines (and I understand the their logic) it will instead be the Coyote and the Gen III Hemi I miss most.
Also, I'm told that if you want an 8k rpm V8, you can skip the Voodoo-powered GT350 and just tune the 5.0, the guy who runs the local dyno shop has been spinning his brother's 5.0 Mustang to 8500 rpm with great results, and he claims it sounds great doing so.
The Godzilla 7.3 is actually smaller!
Billet oil pump gears (OPGs) are an absolute must if doing so. The rest of the caveats come from oiling. Once the gears are installed the car is pretty safe for straightline and 90% of its customers. I don’t think I’d trust it like a Voodoo if you’re spending extended time at 8500+ like a road race application.
4.6 and coyote bearings are not exactly the largest and most durable things. Also much of the oil pressure regulation is in the cam tolerances. You really should look into timing chain control esp on the older stuff. Valvesprings become another requirement / ECM spark management as well.
I know that’s slightly off tangent but the Coyote takes all the great parts of an older 4v and gives you the ability to really utilize 6800+ on factory parts. Still some parts are interchangeable internally like the rods. I believe we were twisting my buddy’s GEN1 to 7800 with a reflash and a couple bolt ons.
My iPhone must’ve cut out a sentence regarding capacity regarding the “caveats”, but having a higher volume pan is also a notable. The earlier stuff didn’t drain back as well and would suck the pan dry along with half ass windage trays.