Guy I carpool with has one of these. It's a decent little commuter. Hauls four adult males in relative comfort each way on our 30 minute almost entirely freeway commute. It's got that crazy Korean styling that puts them ahead of most the other manufacturers in the looks department, but otherwise it isn't pretending to be anything it isn't. Not sure I'd spend my money one one, but I could do worse.
The Koreans are making some great looking vehicles these days. Of course, there is nothing older looking than something that used to be fresh so we'll see how they age.
Bahahaha, no kidding. We still have my mom’s prior car, a 2012 Sonata 2.4 Limited, kicking around the fleet, and *man,* does that thing look old! It did *not* age well, mechanically or stylistically.
MY Civic (stick) predates screens--it's an '08. At 153k, It drives just as well as when I bought it at 35k--actually, even better, due to the Michelin Pilot UltraSport tires. I fully empathize with you for avoiding the screens and touch controls. I hope you're enjoying the Mazda as much as I enjoy my Civic.
The 10th-Gen Accord upped the ante a little in the infotainment looks department, and the rest of the Honda lineup has followed suit.
Overall, the interior of my 2019 Accord Touring 2.0T in my Gravatar is holding up better at this point than my 2013 Touring (V6) was at similar age and mileage, squeak-and-rattle-wise, as well as appearance; all weird spots come out during its annual professional detailing.
I’ve sat in an 11th-Gen Civic, and was impressed by the quality. I’ll want to sit in a Civic and new Accord back-to-back, because for decades, you could feel the “step-up” to the Accord. This time I’m not so sure that difference exists. Honda fucked this one up in 9th-Gen (2012) Civic fashion, which like the new Accord, was finalized during an economic downturn, and Honda ASSumed that people would want cheaper, cut-rate cars. That Civic’s first year on the market was a complete disappointment, so much so that Honda did an emergency nip-tuck on the thing, giving it better-quality interior switchgear and touch points, among other things, for the 2013 model year. I hope Honda plans SOMETHING in the next couple years, hopefully and especially once the new Camry comes out, which even as a hybrid-only vehicle will probably wipe the floor with the Accord in every performance metric, and quite possibly handling as well! Feels almost heretical to say, but I never thought I’d see things in the entire world get this weird, either! (I’m sure tomorrow I’ll see a wolf and a lamb having lunch at Chik-Fil-A! 🙄)
You have a great Accord. I took an extended test drive in a similar one when I was looking to replace my Civic Si (handed it down to my son), 2.0T 6MT. I loved driving it, but lack of aftermarket support for track-oriented upgrades ultimately made me pass.
I have not driven the latest Sonata and Optima sister, but I will say that the current Camry with the base 2.5-liter is the second-most miserable experience I've ever had in a modern vehicle (the first-most was a 2022 Tesla Model 3). I rented a 2022 Camry SE last year, and it was terrible. First and foremost, the 2.5-liter could not keep up with Baltimore traffic, and made that known with a series of sudden and disconcerting downshifts. Second, everything about it sucked: the infotainment, the seats, the fabric...all of it. I was particularly disappointed to see that Toyota deleted the electronic parking brake, probably due to COVID shortages; instead, it had a foot-operated parking brake.
The Camry gave me the impression of a 1996 Buick Century or Oldsmobile Ciera, a vehicle that's perfectly adequate and quite reliable, but absolutely insipid and built to the lowest price point.
I can't imagine the Optima being worse than that Camry. It's probably worse in the long term, but I bet the Optima makes for a better experience in the near term.
As for rental fleets keeping their cars longer than usual, that's certainly true. I recently had that 2022 Model 3 with 64,000 miles (and it felt like it, too), and a 2022 Equinox LT with 50,000-ish miles that felt fine. And this morning, I dropped my car off at the BMW dealer and received a 2019 X5 with 55,000 miles, and that appears to have been in service as a loaner for the entirety of its life.
Aug 18, 2023·edited Aug 18, 2023Liked by Jack Baruth
When my car was in for a long term problem I got a long-term lender from the independent shop. It was a 2002 Camry with 220k on it. It looked brand-new, in the sense that they always were kind of awful but after living with it for a while it was really charming how how honest and indestructible it was. The radio worked, the plastics were shiny, the doors were as hollow as the day they left the factory.
Edit-the brakes were so useless that I thought about suing for Toyota for unintended acceleration whenever I had to plan my stops a week in advance. Again, just the way it left the factory 20 years ago.
That sounds about right. The XV10-generation Camry (1992-1996) was probably that model’s zenith in terms of niceness and quality, and subsequent models haven’t come close. But they give reasonably good service.
My cousin had a 2003 Russian market XV30 Camry (2004ish) and he bought it right around the 1 *MILLION* KM mark (as in all of those miles were local Siberian ones), and did rebuild the engine soon after, Siberian locals have figured out how to resleeve those 2.4s. A few years ago the rear subframe finally rotted out and he found a good used one off of an XV50 car (XV30/40/50/55 fundamentally share the same “K” platform). He said the XV50 subframe was a lot thinner and flimsier than what was on his car originally so you can see Toyota has been hard at work reducing weight. Also from Russian body guys I’ve heard the latest TNGA platform Camrys (XV70 2018+) crumple a lot easier in collisions: a fairly minor rear end accident will wrinkle the skin on the roof, something that never happened even on the XV50 cars.
It (was) a really fun place in terms of the incredible mix of different cars on the roads especially in the 90s/00s: you had a bunch of old Soviet iron that is roaching along *to this day* in rural parts of the country, modern Ladas/Volgas/UAZes/etc, then depending on which side of the Urals you were on, you either had access to the most primo JDM imports available by way of the ports in the Siberian Far East, or you had nice used German/European imports streaming in via car runners operating through Poland and Belarus. Already by the mid 90s it got to the point that 90%+ of the cars in Vladivostock were RHD jap imports. By the late 00s the govt started clamping down via heavy customs/tariffs that more or less killed off the importing business. There was some localized production of Renaults, Toyotas, Fords, Chevys, etc but all of that went away with the current conflict. Now the Chinese have gotten a huge part of the market handed to them so people have the "privilege" of overpaying for some gaudy Chinese junk.
I had a 2018 LE rental and thought the 200hp 2.5 was *plenty* peppy coming from my wife’s port injected 2.5/6A 2012 (not all of us daily drive big-HP German luxo stuff lol), but the 8spd was a mixed bag. Excellent firm quick shifts when accelerating briskly but in light pedal applications around town it was s confused mess. Also the DI motor was noticeably noisier/rougher running than aforementioned port injected 2.5.
“ Driving a Kia still sends a message that fails to resonate with the social strivers or the Dave Ramsey crowd.”
Is this still true? I live in a fairly upscale town and KIAs are ubiquitous now. Yeah, not a lot of sedans but there’s not a lot of sedans anyway. The telluride is THE car for upper middle class soccer moms it seems.
My wife has a telluride and my sister has an xc90. I should do a comparison. My dad test drove a q7 and left unimpressed. Said the interior wasnt nearly as nice as my s4. My guess is it was the base model
I nearly bought a ‘21 or ‘22 Q7 55 Prestige, once. At the time, there were only four in the country in that spec, new, and the dude was like “If you don’t want it, I have someone that’s trying to fly in from Atlanta, so it’s now or never.”
Though I’m sure he wasn’t lying, I wasn’t impressed with the Q7, or that sales tactic.
As for the XC90, I had one of those, a ‘17 Inscription T6. Beautiful car, terrible mechanicals. It’s still my favorite interior of any car I’ve ever had, and the Bowers & Wilkins system was the best I’ve seen...but it drove like shit after the new-to-me car high wore off and spent too much time in the service department. It also somehow managed to drive worse on air suspension, which mine had, than on the standard coil-sprung suspension.
I had a brand new rental XC90 and it rode like absolute hot garbage over inner city streets. Really nice driving car otherwise I got it as a free upgrade from Enterprise to blast 8 hours one way to PA late into the night. Hated how simple audio functions were buried 3 menus deep but maybe that’s the norm now.
I miss the stereo in my 1990 Nissan Hardbody more and more with every car I’ve had since then. Bass, treble, fade, balance, volume and all other controls could be adjusted by touch alone, without taking my eyes off the road.
And your brother earned his keep on a couple of Ovlovs this year! You two could probably fix anything, then blast away on a couple bikes of choice for the weekend!
No, you’re correct, and you reminded me of another thing I hated about that car, which was the infotainment. It was two or three button presses just to turn auto-stop/start off, and of course it defaulted back to being on between ignition cycles.
Supposedly, the new Google-based ones are a lot better, but...ick.
Current XC90 owner. The ride sucks because they spec garbage tires on huge wheels. I sized down the wheels from 21 to 18 with meatier rubber and it transformed the car.
My dad had a Q7 Prestige loaner while his Q5 Prestige was in the shop. I thought it had a nice interior (I daily an A4 Prestige), but the Premium model feels decidedly cheaper.
Not sure where upper middle becomes upper class, but in my semi-fancy Chicago suburb the hierarchy seems to be Escalade/Navigator/GLS, then MDX, then Telluride/Palisade.
That seems like a good dividing line. There’s a stark difference in snob appeal when you get into a vehicle that routinely transacts for six figures, which the Escalade, Navigator and GLS-Class all do, along with the X7, full-size Range Rover (now with three rows, even though you only have 1.5 kids!) and LX 600.
But don’t discount the legions of “stealth wealth” people who absolutely could afford those vehicles and do go for something more like a Telluride because it seems like better value for the money.
Around here the problem with the Telluride is that dealers treat them like they’re F8s and they want to give you the full golden shower and dump on your chest routine before you can buy one. A Telluride + a $10k markup is not better than our MDX unless you absolutely need the third row seat room regularly.
That's what confuses me about why people pay the markup for the Telluride. They're dangerously close in real world price to the kinds of cars that make other soccer moms think you're rich.
I was shocked by how much room was in the Telluride my old boss has. Seemed to be almost minivan level space in a non minivan shaped car.
The highest markup i saw was 2,500. Base mode telluride is 35k. I got an lx awd i think. It was 50k out the door after tax. Soccer mom cars that make you seem rich are nice tahoes or q7 or an x5. A nice tahoe runs 80-90k and same with an x5. A telluride is 95% of the car at 65% of the price. A base x5 is fifteen k more before tax and bmw will nickle and dime you on everything. A base rangerover is 100k now. Prices are ridiculous. All that said, id have gone with the wagoneer for the family car.
Kyree, absolutely correct. A lot oh the 7 digit household in come people drive GMC Yukons or Chevy Suburbans in the Northern Va as an Escalade is to flashy. The Costco and Nordstrom parking lots are filled with them. Escalades are the provenance of old money or new athletic gained income.
Hmm..my guess is that “new income” demographic is, if not into professional sports or “music” production, might be into “pharmaceutical sales!”
Probably with wheels off a Conestoga wagon, with rubber bands for tires, a 20-subwoofer sound system that can be heard in the flight levels, and front seats that are reclined 60-degrees permanently!
Maybe im just shockingly cheap (i am) but how is a car starting at 60k and probably selling for closer to 70-80k stealth wealth? Damn it, that’s expensive!
An interesting factoid about class in the USA is that about 80% of Americans consider themselves "middle class."
All kidding aside, going by quintiles, $28-55K puts you in lower-middle class and $55-90 K puts you in middle-middle class. Upper middle class is $90-150K.
Above $150k you're in the top 20%; you may not feel upper class but you are.
"There are guys at the firm who make like a million dollars a year who can't get a car loan for a Honda cause their credit's so bad. A guy has a Porsche but he doesn't have ten bucks to put in the tank."
Aug 18, 2023·edited Aug 18, 2023Liked by Jack Baruth
At my kids' economically mixed Seattle city school, you see a lot of cars in the Telluride class - also innumerable Foresters and Ascents, a few Highlanders, a parade of Siennas, some Pilots, and the occasional Model Y.
At the $50k/year private school near my house, you see Mercedes GLS/GLE, Volvo XC90s, Model X, Lexuses from the RX all the way up to the LX, MDXes, and a few each of Range Rovers and Yukon Denalis. No Escalades; those are seen as ghetto.
What is completely striking about both is how the sedan is just gonezo. Sedans in this town are driven by Uber drivers, and that's that.
I can't resist. I'm wondering which private school near your house you're talking about. I went to Helen Bush for second grade in 1960-'61. My friend and fellow student Ralphie's mother, daughter of one of the cofounders of Nordstrom's, and a highly successful interior decorator who later on did interior decorating for Nixon aide John Erlichman drove a 1958 or 1959 Thunderbird. My parents, a UW econ prof and a graduate student in their psych dept, drove a '57 Chevy 210 wagon.
That is the private school to which I was referring. From my house (currently under rebuild, so not where I'm living now) I can walk there in about seven minutes.
I'm very nostalgic. We lived in Denny Blaine, top of the hill with a great view of First Hill. I walked to school via Raspberry Hill. I think at some point my second grade friend Ralphie rode his bicycle down Raspberry Hill.
There was something about that whole area. And despite cramming houses into places where there weren't any when I last lived there (1960-61), it still has the charm with the nice houses, the big trees, and the narrow streets. I'm overdue for a return (it's been almost a decade). I may drive out next spring. I'm way overdue for a x-country trip by surface, the last one having been Seattle to Boston on my bicycle in 1975. (I'd gone by car three times betw Seattle and Boston by the time I was 8.)
I ride my bike down there regularly! Our house is a few blocks south, technically over the line into Madrona. There are lots of families who have been in the area continuously since you grew up, and plenty of second- and third-generation owners. We bought in 2016 from someone who had been there since 1971.
At least in my greater social circle, the Telluride is bought by the climbers and ones who want to appear more successful than they are. “Just as good as a Range Rover” they say.
Hyundai and KIA - I still can’t tell the difference between their respective brand missions - have become equivalent to Honda or Toyota among the masses of car shoppers, in my observation. Their EVs have had a bit of a halo effect.
like the Ferrari reference on looks. When I got my new 1990 Miata on more than one occasion I was asked if it was a Ferrari. I’d say no it was a Mazda and get the “No way!”. I moved this to the main thread.
There’s some weird shit, crime-wise, occasionally around there! Not as tranquil a place as its size and geographic placement might suggest! Everything from occasional murders to parish priests caught “grooming!” 🙄🤢
I wonder what it would be like to do a new 308 ish Ferrari, I am not asking for a "retro" interpretation to live out Magnum PI cosplay, although I'm good if they try that too, but a gated shifter, targa top, about that footprint 2 seat small displacement v-8 would be amazing.
I've been interested in the MR2 but moreso in the MRS which is supposed to be much lighter. Either way, probably the best way to get into a reliable mid engined sportscar.
I once asked the comm director of McLaren if they would make and affordable sports car and he said that you have to sell tens of thousands of those to break even and they only have capacity for 4,000 units/yr. Also, their wealthy customers don't want them to sell a cheaper McLaren.
All of the McLaren engines are based on the same originally-Nissan-based V8 racing motor. For a V6 they'd either have to engineer an entirely new motor, hack off two cylinders and do GM's trick crankshaft on their existing powerplant so it will run smoothly, or buy it from someone else like Lotus does with Toyota engines.
Of course it wouldn't sell. They'd have to price it about the same as the "entry level" V8 powered models, around $200K and who would pick the six over the eight?
Aug 18, 2023·edited Aug 18, 2023Liked by Jack Baruth
Regarding the first-generation Cruze (2011-2015, 2016 for the Cruze Limited)...I was also enamored with it. It felt like a large car masquerading as a small one, and had solidity not seen in any Detroit-branded sedan in twenty years. And the upright styling made it seem mature, in comparison to the other small cars at the time. In fact, when I bought my 2014 Jetta SportWagen TDI new, I'd initially been looking at the Cruze. Had not the Chevrolet dealership treated me like a stupid kid with no money, I would have probably bought a 2014 Cruze.
When, eventually, I did buy a Cruze--in a moment of desperation--it was the second-generation, a 2016 Premier RS with every option. And it most assuredly did not have the same solidity as the first-gen. It felt as cheap as it was, if not cheaper.
I test drove a new 2012 Eco 6spd manual Cruze when compact sedan shopping in 2012 and was blown away by the solid heavy smooth ride of the thing. Very German, no joke. It made the 2012 Civic LX 5spd that I ended up buying feel like a tin can in comparison. But at the time the Chevy was $19k new and the Civic was $15k barely used with 11k miles. The Cruze 1.4T with a stick is insanely fuel efficient as well, easily cresting 50mpg highway. But to maintain one of them is a bit closer to a Euro car experience with a few common issues with PCV systems and cooling system components iirc.
I had an 98 BMW 540 when I drove a first gen cruze as a rental. I forget why, but probably because there BMW was down for repair. The Cruze was easily on par in terms of NVH; I was shocked. The materials were cheap, but presented in a way that disguised it well as long as you aren't a dash fondler. I would have replaced the 540 with a Cruze, except I found the Cruze seats horrifically uncomfortable.
Aug 19, 2023·edited Aug 19, 2023Liked by Jack Baruth
The abject neglect the average used Chevy compact sedan endures results in all sort of unfortunate failure modes. At a high level that’s the biggest difference between “old” GMs (pre- Lutz pushrod stuff) and newer ones. The new stuff is much more with the times and nicer driving but doesn’t thrive under abuse like an old Cavalier or Cutlass Ciera would.
I was very impressed when a fraternity brother bought one of the first ones out in 2011, my 08 Mazda 3 was the stand out of the class for driving better than it should at the time, but those first gen Cruzes made it feel dated, and me shocked that I had envy for an entry level Chevy.
My wife is a senior executive at her company. When she travels she always picks a Kia Soul off the National line if they have one. She really likes them.
My wife's favorite rental when she does her consulting travel is the Soul as well. Not sure if I understand it but hey - it apparently always gets the job done.
180 horsepower seems like a lot for a car that size considering I only have 150 in my presumably heavier and less aerodynamic CX-5 (and I definitely feel slow next to the 6.2L Silverados and Ecoboost F-150s and Hemi Rams I'm in traffic with, too). I wonder if I'm having more fun in my silly tall wagon, though.
I bought my mom a 2022 CX-5 Carbon Edition last year. It *is* slow. But it handles excellently, and feels old-school in a good way. Like Japanese cars used to.
Truthfully, I think she’d have been happier with a CR-V, but the CX-5 was what I could find, and for under MSRP. She does think it’s really pretty, so there’s that.
It has to be the best looking car in it's class (I'm biased though). I'll replace mine with a newer one despite the lack of underhood horsies and the highway road noise (they did get better as they moved a little farther upmarket, right?).
The CX-5 has great styling and proportions, to be sure. I’m not certain they did get better on road noise at any time during the CX-5’s existence, but I don’t remember being particularly bothered by it when I took it on a long road trip. Me, I’d have bought the turbo for myself, though.
The only compact SUVs that look as good are the ones in the higher-tier semi-premium space, such as Mazda’s own CX-50, the Envision and the Venza.
The turbos have had some problems. My son was a Mazda tech for a while and his dealership did some engine replacements. The non turbos are bulletproof.
Massive improvement to NVH somewhere around 2017ish tho curb weight jumped up along with it. I had a Grand Touring rental in 2018 and I was very impressed with it specifically in the ride/NVH category. But even the 2.5 was starting to feel that weight gain, to say nothing of those older 2.0L base models.
Isn’t the CX-50 built here I the US in that joint plant with Toyota and has more American proportions? I’m guessing the CX-5 goes away in the US at the end of its cycle.
Like you, I like the handling of our ‘15 Mazda 3 on stilts, but sometimes wish for more power when the more powerful mom trucks around here lolygag around corners and then accelerate away on the straights.
It does seem a bit noisy on long freeway trips as it seem like Mazda applies gram strategy to sound deadening, or maybe the Japanese engineers don’t get the American use case of long freeway drives.
Really, the only thing I don't like about mine is the road noise at highway speeds. I wouldn't go so far as to call it deafening, but I wouldn't mind better (or more) sound insulation. I hope some of it is fixed when I replace the tires eventually ...
Our aged 4Runner (04 V8 Limited) is a far better highway cruiser (quieter, smoother, much MUCH faster in a straight line for passing RVs in the UP) but at 15 mpg vs the CX-5's 30 we usually end up in the Mazda when we travel to my ancestral homeland for holidays and whatnot.
My best friend has a 2016 RX 450h. I christened it the “nap pod.”
That said, handling on the 450h of that generation is particularly bad. How Lexus managed to make a reasonably modern, unibody, transverse-FWD car feel like an old Town Car in the twisties, I’ll never know.
Aug 19, 2023·edited Aug 19, 2023Liked by Jack Baruth
The world's in a general state of decline.
The slide rule put a man on the moon, a feat the electronic computer apparently can't duplicate, let alone surpass. Car manufacturers used to innovate before they got into chasing fractions on pollution controls. Sci fi used to tell of starships and aliens and galactic empires, but now all it can manage is terrestrial dystopia and environmental collapse. The Common Man used to support his wife and three children on 40 hours a week at a job that required nought but a high school diploma, now college graduates can't afford a new car and have to live an hour from work. The global aristocracy openly engages in nothing short of a criminal conspiracy against civilization itself - the suppression of hydrocarbon fuels and nuclear energy. And the people we elect to stop this dive into a new Dark Age walk headlong into the winner-take-all, no-holds-barred bloodsport that is politics with visions of moral high grounds and rational academic debates dancing in their heads.
I have a 2016 Highlander Hybrid, which is a close relative of that generation of RX. Its handling is, indeed, spectacularly bad. It will stick reasonably with good tires but the car doesn't want to make any transitions. You have to anticipate just like with old Detroit iron. But it makes up for it with a ride that's genuinely better than (a) most cars today and (b) its 2020+ successor. I really don't mind it that much anymore.
Exactly. Those are features, not bugs. Solid, reliable, comfortable, quiet, and low cost of ownership. Not every trip to the grocery store needs to be a lap around the 'ring.
Drove an 09 ES350 for a year and while it was "boring", you could drive like an absolute maniac because no one paid attention to the thing. That V6 is great and it's hilarious trying to get the thing to corner.
Jack, a 2021 kia with 50k miles at Hertz???? Your were not using the Gold Lane or what ever they call it were you 😂😂 joining the ranks of the Kia Boyz for the day, need to take fair warning as I see in one of your photos Rodney petting the cat, remind him not to “borrow” your rental. Just a suggestion. Oh and congratulations on finely getting your 300. Memo to file, Chargers and 300 are amount the most reported stolen cars according to Dallas PD and the police there typically more often than not run the plates on Chargers and 300s. See the story about the family that got the privilege of a high risk stop on the North Dallas Expressway because the office made a typo while running the plates. And they were just going to a basketball camp.
And by "typo", we mean "Couldn't tell the difference between Arizona and Arkansas". Which is somewhat understandable, except the question becoames: WAS IT THE SAME VEHICLE?
There was a similar case in Colorado where a family in a CUV or minivan were laid out on the pavement at gunpoint and the plate was not only the wrong state, but it was a stolen MOTORCYCLE.
The difference between plates is not nearly as big as the difference between a TWO WHEELED MOTORCYCLE and a SEVEN PASSENGER SUV FILLED WITH ADULTS, CHILDREN, AND BABIES.
Sorry, I'm not getting rid of my 2011 CRV. If they still made low/mid priced wagons, maybe, but I'm done with sedans and a trunk opening like that. Just turn the thing into a 5 door hatch.
I've got no patience for rearranging the puzzle pieces to fit and then getting someone 5 foot 3, 300 pounds eating fudge rolls to sit on the lid so it can close. They probably would refuse because they don't need to work because they are "Collecting"
Yeah, I know I drive something that is raised Civic/Accord mishmash. I know it's loud as pluck. I ended up buying ear buds with ANC in them. The new pair is fantastic for the price. Soundcore Liberty 4 NCs Under a 100 bucks and supposedly 98.5% noise cancellation. That number might be hype, but man do they block the noise.
I'm really surprised car makers haven't perfected a noise cancelling system that would play through the car speakers.
Aug 18, 2023·edited Aug 18, 2023Liked by Jack Baruth
“ Your humble author believes that the peak for mid-sized sedans was the 9th generation Accord and “XV50” Camry.”
My dad has a 9th Gen Accord with around 80k miles he keeps at his CT house for whomever to use while they are there. He went with a Civic at his FL house with its small garage because it fit better than that year Accord (2019?).
Anyways, I put some serious mileage on the Accord a few weeks ago when I was in CT driving back and forth between their house in SE CT and my sister’s new place in West Hartford (~50 mile each way). I found myself thinking I should hate the Accord in all its CVT glory, but I really didn’t mind it. Great visibility, decent power, comfy on the highway, and super economical. If I wasn’t the kind of moron who thought he needed a Rubicon Jeep for his hunting trip once a year, Id smarten up and try to buy the Accord off my dad, or go grab one myself. But it’s too boring and practical and I’d be trying to find other ways to shred money.
That was the rising of the phoenix from the ashes of the 8th-Gen Accord, ponderous with 3-way VCM cylinder-deactivation (no VTEC cam), despite being the last Accord with SLA suspension up-front and hydraulic steering. (The Euro Accord, or our TSX, was the choice.) Then the 10th-Gen built on the good traits, despite occasional fuel-washdown issues in the L15s; the K20C3s were classic Honda--overbuilt, meaning better for turbo duty!
Then some eco-weenie decided that dammit-all, we’re gonna shove hybrids down everybody’s throats, and while we’re at it, we’re gonna ELIMINATE features that the last Accord had (adaptive dampers), and stuff that they’ve had for DECADES (XM Satellite Radio, factory HomeLink, foglights), and while we’re at it, the Camry’s handling is more than adequate now that we’re SAVING THE FUCKING PLANET!!!
And that’s how the 11th-Gen “Accord,” aka, CAMRY, was born! (Until the new one wipes the floor with the Accord, then rips the engine out and pisses in the battery box!)
"At any point prior to about 2005, you could have sold this as a Ferrari."
Case in point: The Lamborghini Urus. That thing looks NOTHING like a Lamborghini - in fact, more like the fleets of anonymous mommymobiles plying our roads.
Guy I carpool with has one of these. It's a decent little commuter. Hauls four adult males in relative comfort each way on our 30 minute almost entirely freeway commute. It's got that crazy Korean styling that puts them ahead of most the other manufacturers in the looks department, but otherwise it isn't pretending to be anything it isn't. Not sure I'd spend my money one one, but I could do worse.
I gotta admit, the current Kia Sorento looks pretty tough for a crossover or SUV or whatever we're calling these fat-wagons-on-stilts these days
The Koreans are making some great looking vehicles these days. Of course, there is nothing older looking than something that used to be fresh so we'll see how they age.
Bahahaha, no kidding. We still have my mom’s prior car, a 2012 Sonata 2.4 Limited, kicking around the fleet, and *man,* does that thing look old! It did *not* age well, mechanically or stylistically.
Thing is, a 2012 Sonata is mellow compared to what they have been doing in the last few years.
Also true. Between Hyundai and Kia, the Telluride and the Carnival are their only truly tame modern cars.
That said, I do love the geometric, brutalist look of the IONIQ 5. Wouldn’t buy one--because I have no need for an EV--but it sure looks pretty.
You got the wrong song for your Brooklyn 99 reference, but I gotchu.
"have you looked at a Honda interior at any point in time since they started putting screens in them?" I did, and immediately bought a Sonata.
The Honda Civic and its weird screen and touch controls pushed me firmly in the Mazda 3 camp.
I knew that two years in I would be going ballistic over the umpteenth accidental volume change.
To be fair to Honda during the refresh of that Civic gen they reintroduced a volume knob
Not the 9th they didn't. Were you looking at a 10?
Circa 2016 so yes
My 9th gen Civic Si infotainment screen has all the utility and pixels of a late 90s ATM.
But you DO have a choice of like 4 colors
laughing!!!
MY Civic (stick) predates screens--it's an '08. At 153k, It drives just as well as when I bought it at 35k--actually, even better, due to the Michelin Pilot UltraSport tires. I fully empathize with you for avoiding the screens and touch controls. I hope you're enjoying the Mazda as much as I enjoy my Civic.
The 10th-Gen Accord upped the ante a little in the infotainment looks department, and the rest of the Honda lineup has followed suit.
Overall, the interior of my 2019 Accord Touring 2.0T in my Gravatar is holding up better at this point than my 2013 Touring (V6) was at similar age and mileage, squeak-and-rattle-wise, as well as appearance; all weird spots come out during its annual professional detailing.
I’ve sat in an 11th-Gen Civic, and was impressed by the quality. I’ll want to sit in a Civic and new Accord back-to-back, because for decades, you could feel the “step-up” to the Accord. This time I’m not so sure that difference exists. Honda fucked this one up in 9th-Gen (2012) Civic fashion, which like the new Accord, was finalized during an economic downturn, and Honda ASSumed that people would want cheaper, cut-rate cars. That Civic’s first year on the market was a complete disappointment, so much so that Honda did an emergency nip-tuck on the thing, giving it better-quality interior switchgear and touch points, among other things, for the 2013 model year. I hope Honda plans SOMETHING in the next couple years, hopefully and especially once the new Camry comes out, which even as a hybrid-only vehicle will probably wipe the floor with the Accord in every performance metric, and quite possibly handling as well! Feels almost heretical to say, but I never thought I’d see things in the entire world get this weird, either! (I’m sure tomorrow I’ll see a wolf and a lamb having lunch at Chik-Fil-A! 🙄)
You have a great Accord. I took an extended test drive in a similar one when I was looking to replace my Civic Si (handed it down to my son), 2.0T 6MT. I loved driving it, but lack of aftermarket support for track-oriented upgrades ultimately made me pass.
I have not driven the latest Sonata and Optima sister, but I will say that the current Camry with the base 2.5-liter is the second-most miserable experience I've ever had in a modern vehicle (the first-most was a 2022 Tesla Model 3). I rented a 2022 Camry SE last year, and it was terrible. First and foremost, the 2.5-liter could not keep up with Baltimore traffic, and made that known with a series of sudden and disconcerting downshifts. Second, everything about it sucked: the infotainment, the seats, the fabric...all of it. I was particularly disappointed to see that Toyota deleted the electronic parking brake, probably due to COVID shortages; instead, it had a foot-operated parking brake.
The Camry gave me the impression of a 1996 Buick Century or Oldsmobile Ciera, a vehicle that's perfectly adequate and quite reliable, but absolutely insipid and built to the lowest price point.
I can't imagine the Optima being worse than that Camry. It's probably worse in the long term, but I bet the Optima makes for a better experience in the near term.
As for rental fleets keeping their cars longer than usual, that's certainly true. I recently had that 2022 Model 3 with 64,000 miles (and it felt like it, too), and a 2022 Equinox LT with 50,000-ish miles that felt fine. And this morning, I dropped my car off at the BMW dealer and received a 2019 X5 with 55,000 miles, and that appears to have been in service as a loaner for the entirety of its life.
When my car was in for a long term problem I got a long-term lender from the independent shop. It was a 2002 Camry with 220k on it. It looked brand-new, in the sense that they always were kind of awful but after living with it for a while it was really charming how how honest and indestructible it was. The radio worked, the plastics were shiny, the doors were as hollow as the day they left the factory.
Edit-the brakes were so useless that I thought about suing for Toyota for unintended acceleration whenever I had to plan my stops a week in advance. Again, just the way it left the factory 20 years ago.
That sounds about right. The XV10-generation Camry (1992-1996) was probably that model’s zenith in terms of niceness and quality, and subsequent models haven’t come close. But they give reasonably good service.
Your description of the brakes is hilarious.
Those were the ones that were essentially Lexus-grade under the skin, with interiors that wore like iron.
My cousin had a 2003 Russian market XV30 Camry (2004ish) and he bought it right around the 1 *MILLION* KM mark (as in all of those miles were local Siberian ones), and did rebuild the engine soon after, Siberian locals have figured out how to resleeve those 2.4s. A few years ago the rear subframe finally rotted out and he found a good used one off of an XV50 car (XV30/40/50/55 fundamentally share the same “K” platform). He said the XV50 subframe was a lot thinner and flimsier than what was on his car originally so you can see Toyota has been hard at work reducing weight. Also from Russian body guys I’ve heard the latest TNGA platform Camrys (XV70 2018+) crumple a lot easier in collisions: a fairly minor rear end accident will wrinkle the skin on the roof, something that never happened even on the XV50 cars.
That’s truly fascinating. I should think the Russian body shop guys, of all people, would be experts on the construction of a car.
The K platform sure did live a long time. The 2016-2022 RX was the last product on it.
Reading this was surreal. You don't automatically think of Russia as being normal when it comes to cars.
It (was) a really fun place in terms of the incredible mix of different cars on the roads especially in the 90s/00s: you had a bunch of old Soviet iron that is roaching along *to this day* in rural parts of the country, modern Ladas/Volgas/UAZes/etc, then depending on which side of the Urals you were on, you either had access to the most primo JDM imports available by way of the ports in the Siberian Far East, or you had nice used German/European imports streaming in via car runners operating through Poland and Belarus. Already by the mid 90s it got to the point that 90%+ of the cars in Vladivostock were RHD jap imports. By the late 00s the govt started clamping down via heavy customs/tariffs that more or less killed off the importing business. There was some localized production of Renaults, Toyotas, Fords, Chevys, etc but all of that went away with the current conflict. Now the Chinese have gotten a huge part of the market handed to them so people have the "privilege" of overpaying for some gaudy Chinese junk.
Like a parallel world...
I had a 2018 LE rental and thought the 200hp 2.5 was *plenty* peppy coming from my wife’s port injected 2.5/6A 2012 (not all of us daily drive big-HP German luxo stuff lol), but the 8spd was a mixed bag. Excellent firm quick shifts when accelerating briskly but in light pedal applications around town it was s confused mess. Also the DI motor was noticeably noisier/rougher running than aforementioned port injected 2.5.
That's surprising to hear. Been through a number of rental Camries from LE all the way up the XSE and I've liked them all.
“ Driving a Kia still sends a message that fails to resonate with the social strivers or the Dave Ramsey crowd.”
Is this still true? I live in a fairly upscale town and KIAs are ubiquitous now. Yeah, not a lot of sedans but there’s not a lot of sedans anyway. The telluride is THE car for upper middle class soccer moms it seems.
"The telluride is THE car for upper middle class soccer moms it seems."
I agree. Especially if they can pat themselves on the back for not having spent an extra $20K on an XC90 or Q7. It's almost a type of humble-brag.
My wife has a telluride and my sister has an xc90. I should do a comparison. My dad test drove a q7 and left unimpressed. Said the interior wasnt nearly as nice as my s4. My guess is it was the base model
I nearly bought a ‘21 or ‘22 Q7 55 Prestige, once. At the time, there were only four in the country in that spec, new, and the dude was like “If you don’t want it, I have someone that’s trying to fly in from Atlanta, so it’s now or never.”
Though I’m sure he wasn’t lying, I wasn’t impressed with the Q7, or that sales tactic.
As for the XC90, I had one of those, a ‘17 Inscription T6. Beautiful car, terrible mechanicals. It’s still my favorite interior of any car I’ve ever had, and the Bowers & Wilkins system was the best I’ve seen...but it drove like shit after the new-to-me car high wore off and spent too much time in the service department. It also somehow managed to drive worse on air suspension, which mine had, than on the standard coil-sprung suspension.
I had a brand new rental XC90 and it rode like absolute hot garbage over inner city streets. Really nice driving car otherwise I got it as a free upgrade from Enterprise to blast 8 hours one way to PA late into the night. Hated how simple audio functions were buried 3 menus deep but maybe that’s the norm now.
I miss the stereo in my 1990 Nissan Hardbody more and more with every car I’ve had since then. Bass, treble, fade, balance, volume and all other controls could be adjusted by touch alone, without taking my eyes off the road.
And your brother earned his keep on a couple of Ovlovs this year! You two could probably fix anything, then blast away on a couple bikes of choice for the weekend!
No, you’re correct, and you reminded me of another thing I hated about that car, which was the infotainment. It was two or three button presses just to turn auto-stop/start off, and of course it defaulted back to being on between ignition cycles.
Supposedly, the new Google-based ones are a lot better, but...ick.
Current XC90 owner. The ride sucks because they spec garbage tires on huge wheels. I sized down the wheels from 21 to 18 with meatier rubber and it transformed the car.
My dad had a Q7 Prestige loaner while his Q5 Prestige was in the shop. I thought it had a nice interior (I daily an A4 Prestige), but the Premium model feels decidedly cheaper.
The guy who runs Huntington Bank just got a Telluride for his wife.
Not sure where upper middle becomes upper class, but in my semi-fancy Chicago suburb the hierarchy seems to be Escalade/Navigator/GLS, then MDX, then Telluride/Palisade.
That seems like a good dividing line. There’s a stark difference in snob appeal when you get into a vehicle that routinely transacts for six figures, which the Escalade, Navigator and GLS-Class all do, along with the X7, full-size Range Rover (now with three rows, even though you only have 1.5 kids!) and LX 600.
But don’t discount the legions of “stealth wealth” people who absolutely could afford those vehicles and do go for something more like a Telluride because it seems like better value for the money.
Around here the problem with the Telluride is that dealers treat them like they’re F8s and they want to give you the full golden shower and dump on your chest routine before you can buy one. A Telluride + a $10k markup is not better than our MDX unless you absolutely need the third row seat room regularly.
That is also true. I would remind anyone forsaking a luxury car for a Telluride that they
a) will likely pay a markup that narrows the gap between it and the luxury car considerably, and
b) will have to put up with Kia dealerships, both on the sales and service side
That makes the Telluride a much less attractive proposition, to me.
That's what confuses me about why people pay the markup for the Telluride. They're dangerously close in real world price to the kinds of cars that make other soccer moms think you're rich.
I was shocked by how much room was in the Telluride my old boss has. Seemed to be almost minivan level space in a non minivan shaped car.
The highest markup i saw was 2,500. Base mode telluride is 35k. I got an lx awd i think. It was 50k out the door after tax. Soccer mom cars that make you seem rich are nice tahoes or q7 or an x5. A nice tahoe runs 80-90k and same with an x5. A telluride is 95% of the car at 65% of the price. A base x5 is fifteen k more before tax and bmw will nickle and dime you on everything. A base rangerover is 100k now. Prices are ridiculous. All that said, id have gone with the wagoneer for the family car.
it's big!
The only attraction to me is the ability to go around town asking,
"Did I Tell You about my Ride? It's a Tell-u-Ride?"
I’m waiting for Beyoncé or Megan Thee Stallion to release a song with “So you can Kia-Tell-ur-ide to come pick you up” or something in it.
I paid msrp in january for one. Orland park dealership. There was a lot of shenanigans. “Sure ill give you msrp”
Then try and backdoor another 2500 of adm in some bullshit.
Kyree, absolutely correct. A lot oh the 7 digit household in come people drive GMC Yukons or Chevy Suburbans in the Northern Va as an Escalade is to flashy. The Costco and Nordstrom parking lots are filled with them. Escalades are the provenance of old money or new athletic gained income.
Hmm..my guess is that “new income” demographic is, if not into professional sports or “music” production, might be into “pharmaceutical sales!”
Probably with wheels off a Conestoga wagon, with rubber bands for tires, a 20-subwoofer sound system that can be heard in the flight levels, and front seats that are reclined 60-degrees permanently!
Escalades are for a certain type of rich. The name escapes me at the moment...I think it started with an "N" or something.
Around me I see a few Tellurides, but stealth wealth seems to favor Tahoes and Grand Cherokees.
Not that either are cheap, but they have any easy time crossing class lines.
Of the premium priced Germans, Audi is surprisingly under represented. I thought a brand built on quattro would do better in a snowy climate.
Maybe im just shockingly cheap (i am) but how is a car starting at 60k and probably selling for closer to 70-80k stealth wealth? Damn it, that’s expensive!
It is very expensive, but it doesn't shout it.
If you have to work for a living, you’re some subset of middle class. The dude making 3mm living paycheck to paycheck. Upper middle class!
An interesting factoid about class in the USA is that about 80% of Americans consider themselves "middle class."
All kidding aside, going by quintiles, $28-55K puts you in lower-middle class and $55-90 K puts you in middle-middle class. Upper middle class is $90-150K.
Above $150k you're in the top 20%; you may not feel upper class but you are.
Source: https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/household-income-quintiles
Thanks for posting this. Interesting to watch the top accelerating away.
"There are guys at the firm who make like a million dollars a year who can't get a car loan for a Honda cause their credit's so bad. A guy has a Porsche but he doesn't have ten bucks to put in the tank."
Hmmm..can’t afford to pay attention! 😂😂
At my kids' economically mixed Seattle city school, you see a lot of cars in the Telluride class - also innumerable Foresters and Ascents, a few Highlanders, a parade of Siennas, some Pilots, and the occasional Model Y.
At the $50k/year private school near my house, you see Mercedes GLS/GLE, Volvo XC90s, Model X, Lexuses from the RX all the way up to the LX, MDXes, and a few each of Range Rovers and Yukon Denalis. No Escalades; those are seen as ghetto.
What is completely striking about both is how the sedan is just gonezo. Sedans in this town are driven by Uber drivers, and that's that.
I can't resist. I'm wondering which private school near your house you're talking about. I went to Helen Bush for second grade in 1960-'61. My friend and fellow student Ralphie's mother, daughter of one of the cofounders of Nordstrom's, and a highly successful interior decorator who later on did interior decorating for Nixon aide John Erlichman drove a 1958 or 1959 Thunderbird. My parents, a UW econ prof and a graduate student in their psych dept, drove a '57 Chevy 210 wagon.
That is the private school to which I was referring. From my house (currently under rebuild, so not where I'm living now) I can walk there in about seven minutes.
I'm very nostalgic. We lived in Denny Blaine, top of the hill with a great view of First Hill. I walked to school via Raspberry Hill. I think at some point my second grade friend Ralphie rode his bicycle down Raspberry Hill.
There was something about that whole area. And despite cramming houses into places where there weren't any when I last lived there (1960-61), it still has the charm with the nice houses, the big trees, and the narrow streets. I'm overdue for a return (it's been almost a decade). I may drive out next spring. I'm way overdue for a x-country trip by surface, the last one having been Seattle to Boston on my bicycle in 1975. (I'd gone by car three times betw Seattle and Boston by the time I was 8.)
I ride my bike down there regularly! Our house is a few blocks south, technically over the line into Madrona. There are lots of families who have been in the area continuously since you grew up, and plenty of second- and third-generation owners. We bought in 2016 from someone who had been there since 1971.
At least in my greater social circle, the Telluride is bought by the climbers and ones who want to appear more successful than they are. “Just as good as a Range Rover” they say.
Well, they’re definitely as good as a Range Rover.
I read that and had the same reaction.
Hyundai and KIA - I still can’t tell the difference between their respective brand missions - have become equivalent to Honda or Toyota among the masses of car shoppers, in my observation. Their EVs have had a bit of a halo effect.
The office meme “its the same picture” applies to kia and hyundai.
Here in Oakland, among new cars, I most often see Challengers and Chargers, followed by Kias of every description, and across all demographics.
Used to be you could see some Peugeots, Volvo P544s, stuff like that. Or wait, that was Berkeley. Close enough!
Berkeley is still where old Peugeots, Volvos, Saabs, and the occasional Citroen go to die. I've even seen a VW Phaeton roaming the city.
I haven't been back since 2015. Something to look forward to!
The Air Force calls that high-low.
F-15 & F-16, F-22 & F-35, etc.
Man, these things are boring. Couldn't 25k get you something much better suited for purpose while also being a sensible choice?
25k barely gets you a months of groceries these days
No, not really. At this point, the midsize sedans start in the high twenties and easily crest $30K for desirable specs with options.
The question then becomes whether something Civic/Elantra/Corolla-sized will do. And those cars are more commodious than they’ve ever been.
True. My best friend's S.O. has a '20 or '21 Corolla. Nice car, although not a driver's car.
More cats in cars pictures please.
I swear I was asking for this when the sub launched and our host has not delivered.
Need to be careful about how you ask because "show pussies in cars" isn't always interpreted the right way.
Turn safe search ON
This comments section is getting much too distracting!
Some would post a link to motortrend or car and driver or road and track if you asked for that
Ba-zing
Hey-O!!! 😂😂😂
I agree, gives the review a real vibe
The Matrix is strong in this one!! 😏
like the Ferrari reference on looks. When I got my new 1990 Miata on more than one occasion I was asked if it was a Ferrari. I’d say no it was a Mazda and get the “No way!”. I moved this to the main thread.
The correct answer was “yes, it is a Ferrari”
I was trying to avoid getting it keyed. This was northwest Ohio, around Findlay.
There’s some weird shit, crime-wise, occasionally around there! Not as tranquil a place as its size and geographic placement might suggest! Everything from occasional murders to parish priests caught “grooming!” 🙄🤢
Sounds like. Anytown USA…
I'm using this.
Especially when nobody has asked me that.
I still wish Ferrari would make a small two seat roadster. Not everything needs a 210mph top speed.
But it'd be cool if it did that too
I wonder what it would be like to do a new 308 ish Ferrari, I am not asking for a "retro" interpretation to live out Magnum PI cosplay, although I'm good if they try that too, but a gated shifter, targa top, about that footprint 2 seat small displacement v-8 would be amazing.
It did. It was called the MR2 Spyder.
(joking. no idea if the MR2 Spyder was any good)
I've been interested in the MR2 but moreso in the MRS which is supposed to be much lighter. Either way, probably the best way to get into a reliable mid engined sportscar.
I once asked the comm director of McLaren if they would make and affordable sports car and he said that you have to sell tens of thousands of those to break even and they only have capacity for 4,000 units/yr. Also, their wealthy customers don't want them to sell a cheaper McLaren.
Perhaps not cheaper, but what about smaller? A pocket Mclaren. ~1000kg or under with a small, naturally aspirated V6.
It would never sell.
All of the McLaren engines are based on the same originally-Nissan-based V8 racing motor. For a V6 they'd either have to engineer an entirely new motor, hack off two cylinders and do GM's trick crankshaft on their existing powerplant so it will run smoothly, or buy it from someone else like Lotus does with Toyota engines.
Of course it wouldn't sell. They'd have to price it about the same as the "entry level" V8 powered models, around $200K and who would pick the six over the eight?
Good point, I thought they started doing their own engines in house. Maybe just a naturally aspirated version of the V8 then?
The C7 Corvette did the same thing to me for the first year it was out.
"Hey, nice Fer...oh, okay."
Regarding the first-generation Cruze (2011-2015, 2016 for the Cruze Limited)...I was also enamored with it. It felt like a large car masquerading as a small one, and had solidity not seen in any Detroit-branded sedan in twenty years. And the upright styling made it seem mature, in comparison to the other small cars at the time. In fact, when I bought my 2014 Jetta SportWagen TDI new, I'd initially been looking at the Cruze. Had not the Chevrolet dealership treated me like a stupid kid with no money, I would have probably bought a 2014 Cruze.
When, eventually, I did buy a Cruze--in a moment of desperation--it was the second-generation, a 2016 Premier RS with every option. And it most assuredly did not have the same solidity as the first-gen. It felt as cheap as it was, if not cheaper.
I test drove a new 2012 Eco 6spd manual Cruze when compact sedan shopping in 2012 and was blown away by the solid heavy smooth ride of the thing. Very German, no joke. It made the 2012 Civic LX 5spd that I ended up buying feel like a tin can in comparison. But at the time the Chevy was $19k new and the Civic was $15k barely used with 11k miles. The Cruze 1.4T with a stick is insanely fuel efficient as well, easily cresting 50mpg highway. But to maintain one of them is a bit closer to a Euro car experience with a few common issues with PCV systems and cooling system components iirc.
I had an 98 BMW 540 when I drove a first gen cruze as a rental. I forget why, but probably because there BMW was down for repair. The Cruze was easily on par in terms of NVH; I was shocked. The materials were cheap, but presented in a way that disguised it well as long as you aren't a dash fondler. I would have replaced the 540 with a Cruze, except I found the Cruze seats horrifically uncomfortable.
Don’t those 1.4s also like to eat turbochargers?
The abject neglect the average used Chevy compact sedan endures results in all sort of unfortunate failure modes. At a high level that’s the biggest difference between “old” GMs (pre- Lutz pushrod stuff) and newer ones. The new stuff is much more with the times and nicer driving but doesn’t thrive under abuse like an old Cavalier or Cutlass Ciera would.
I was very impressed when a fraternity brother bought one of the first ones out in 2011, my 08 Mazda 3 was the stand out of the class for driving better than it should at the time, but those first gen Cruzes made it feel dated, and me shocked that I had envy for an entry level Chevy.
My wife is a senior executive at her company. When she travels she always picks a Kia Soul off the National line if they have one. She really likes them.
My wife's favorite rental when she does her consulting travel is the Soul as well. Not sure if I understand it but hey - it apparently always gets the job done.
180 horsepower seems like a lot for a car that size considering I only have 150 in my presumably heavier and less aerodynamic CX-5 (and I definitely feel slow next to the 6.2L Silverados and Ecoboost F-150s and Hemi Rams I'm in traffic with, too). I wonder if I'm having more fun in my silly tall wagon, though.
First gen CX-5s are a true blast to drive.
I regret nothing!
Didn’t you track test one at TTAC?
Drove it at Laguna Seca with Davey Johnson, who nearly rolled one of them going down the corkscrew.
I bought my mom a 2022 CX-5 Carbon Edition last year. It *is* slow. But it handles excellently, and feels old-school in a good way. Like Japanese cars used to.
Truthfully, I think she’d have been happier with a CR-V, but the CX-5 was what I could find, and for under MSRP. She does think it’s really pretty, so there’s that.
It has to be the best looking car in it's class (I'm biased though). I'll replace mine with a newer one despite the lack of underhood horsies and the highway road noise (they did get better as they moved a little farther upmarket, right?).
The CX-5 has great styling and proportions, to be sure. I’m not certain they did get better on road noise at any time during the CX-5’s existence, but I don’t remember being particularly bothered by it when I took it on a long road trip. Me, I’d have bought the turbo for myself, though.
The only compact SUVs that look as good are the ones in the higher-tier semi-premium space, such as Mazda’s own CX-50, the Envision and the Venza.
The turbos have had some problems. My son was a Mazda tech for a while and his dealership did some engine replacements. The non turbos are bulletproof.
That’s what we’re hoping, since Mom’s has the 2.5-liter! So far, so good. There’s not even start-stop to contend with, which is great.
Just like the Flex, huh?
Massive improvement to NVH somewhere around 2017ish tho curb weight jumped up along with it. I had a Grand Touring rental in 2018 and I was very impressed with it specifically in the ride/NVH category. But even the 2.5 was starting to feel that weight gain, to say nothing of those older 2.0L base models.
I really want someone to explain to me why the CX-5 continues to exist alongside the CX-50.
Even Mazda doesn't seem to know why.
Isn’t the CX-50 built here I the US in that joint plant with Toyota and has more American proportions? I’m guessing the CX-5 goes away in the US at the end of its cycle.
Like you, I like the handling of our ‘15 Mazda 3 on stilts, but sometimes wish for more power when the more powerful mom trucks around here lolygag around corners and then accelerate away on the straights.
It does seem a bit noisy on long freeway trips as it seem like Mazda applies gram strategy to sound deadening, or maybe the Japanese engineers don’t get the American use case of long freeway drives.
Really, the only thing I don't like about mine is the road noise at highway speeds. I wouldn't go so far as to call it deafening, but I wouldn't mind better (or more) sound insulation. I hope some of it is fixed when I replace the tires eventually ...
I find it to be tiring on the highway compared to our Odyssey but not nearly as loud as our silly cars.
Our aged 4Runner (04 V8 Limited) is a far better highway cruiser (quieter, smoother, much MUCH faster in a straight line for passing RVs in the UP) but at 15 mpg vs the CX-5's 30 we usually end up in the Mazda when we travel to my ancestral homeland for holidays and whatnot.
Has MDOT put any of the passing lanes in on 2 like you find on 72, 32, and the like, in the Lower Peninsula?
Yes, I want to say there are 15 or so passing lanes between I-75 and 77 but most are short and hard to properly utilize in summer traffic season.
This isn’t bad looking, but love the current gen camry, but would maybe move up to an es350, for the nicer interior.
Oh, absolutely. The ES 350 is a lot nicer. It’s also larger, having moved to the Avalon wheelbase with the 2013 redesign.
My mom had an es350 before she “upgraded” to the rx whatever. Two of the most boring cars ever made
Perfect for drifting...
...off to sleep while listening to James Taylor.
My best friend has a 2016 RX 450h. I christened it the “nap pod.”
That said, handling on the 450h of that generation is particularly bad. How Lexus managed to make a reasonably modern, unibody, transverse-FWD car feel like an old Town Car in the twisties, I’ll never know.
The world's in a general state of decline.
The slide rule put a man on the moon, a feat the electronic computer apparently can't duplicate, let alone surpass. Car manufacturers used to innovate before they got into chasing fractions on pollution controls. Sci fi used to tell of starships and aliens and galactic empires, but now all it can manage is terrestrial dystopia and environmental collapse. The Common Man used to support his wife and three children on 40 hours a week at a job that required nought but a high school diploma, now college graduates can't afford a new car and have to live an hour from work. The global aristocracy openly engages in nothing short of a criminal conspiracy against civilization itself - the suppression of hydrocarbon fuels and nuclear energy. And the people we elect to stop this dive into a new Dark Age walk headlong into the winner-take-all, no-holds-barred bloodsport that is politics with visions of moral high grounds and rational academic debates dancing in their heads.
Dude. This should be a country song.
thanks i hate it
I have a 2016 Highlander Hybrid, which is a close relative of that generation of RX. Its handling is, indeed, spectacularly bad. It will stick reasonably with good tires but the car doesn't want to make any transitions. You have to anticipate just like with old Detroit iron. But it makes up for it with a ride that's genuinely better than (a) most cars today and (b) its 2020+ successor. I really don't mind it that much anymore.
Exactly. Those are features, not bugs. Solid, reliable, comfortable, quiet, and low cost of ownership. Not every trip to the grocery store needs to be a lap around the 'ring.
Drove an 09 ES350 for a year and while it was "boring", you could drive like an absolute maniac because no one paid attention to the thing. That V6 is great and it's hilarious trying to get the thing to corner.
Jack, a 2021 kia with 50k miles at Hertz???? Your were not using the Gold Lane or what ever they call it were you 😂😂 joining the ranks of the Kia Boyz for the day, need to take fair warning as I see in one of your photos Rodney petting the cat, remind him not to “borrow” your rental. Just a suggestion. Oh and congratulations on finely getting your 300. Memo to file, Chargers and 300 are amount the most reported stolen cars according to Dallas PD and the police there typically more often than not run the plates on Chargers and 300s. See the story about the family that got the privilege of a high risk stop on the North Dallas Expressway because the office made a typo while running the plates. And they were just going to a basketball camp.
And by "typo", we mean "Couldn't tell the difference between Arizona and Arkansas". Which is somewhat understandable, except the question becoames: WAS IT THE SAME VEHICLE?
There was a similar case in Colorado where a family in a CUV or minivan were laid out on the pavement at gunpoint and the plate was not only the wrong state, but it was a stolen MOTORCYCLE.
How did they miss the size difference between a car and a bike plate?
Cops are hired for their ability to take orders and not for critical thinking
And shout.
The difference between plates is not nearly as big as the difference between a TWO WHEELED MOTORCYCLE and a SEVEN PASSENGER SUV FILLED WITH ADULTS, CHILDREN, AND BABIES.
Hmmm..possible racial profiling, anyone?!
Sorry, I'm not getting rid of my 2011 CRV. If they still made low/mid priced wagons, maybe, but I'm done with sedans and a trunk opening like that. Just turn the thing into a 5 door hatch.
I've got no patience for rearranging the puzzle pieces to fit and then getting someone 5 foot 3, 300 pounds eating fudge rolls to sit on the lid so it can close. They probably would refuse because they don't need to work because they are "Collecting"
Yeah, I know I drive something that is raised Civic/Accord mishmash. I know it's loud as pluck. I ended up buying ear buds with ANC in them. The new pair is fantastic for the price. Soundcore Liberty 4 NCs Under a 100 bucks and supposedly 98.5% noise cancellation. That number might be hype, but man do they block the noise.
I'm really surprised car makers haven't perfected a noise cancelling system that would play through the car speakers.
Now get off my lawn you damn kids.
I imagine if carmakers did that it would make some lawyers rich.
Active Noise Cancellation is not uncommon these days.
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-jKyqDw6kOJq/learn/disabling-active-noise-cancellation-anc-in-your-car.html
https://www.autobytel.com/10-cars-with-active-noise-cancellation
I think I read about Lotus offering it circa 1989. Lotus Engineering with Harman Becker seems to be the major vendor even today.
Brilliant.
The obsession with NVH is why you have to venture into triple digits to feel fast.
I think a big chunk of NVH is the N. Cars feel a lot more solid when you can't feel the clunks.
Haha. I saw that as " 5 foot, 3300 lbs.
"This guy's selling a 10,000 wench. Huh. Must be a typo."
"Nope. He's in Pittsburgh."
"I'm really surprised car makers haven't perfected a noise cancelling system that would play through the car speakers."
The reviews I've seen of the Genesis sedans say they have.
“ Your humble author believes that the peak for mid-sized sedans was the 9th generation Accord and “XV50” Camry.”
My dad has a 9th Gen Accord with around 80k miles he keeps at his CT house for whomever to use while they are there. He went with a Civic at his FL house with its small garage because it fit better than that year Accord (2019?).
Anyways, I put some serious mileage on the Accord a few weeks ago when I was in CT driving back and forth between their house in SE CT and my sister’s new place in West Hartford (~50 mile each way). I found myself thinking I should hate the Accord in all its CVT glory, but I really didn’t mind it. Great visibility, decent power, comfy on the highway, and super economical. If I wasn’t the kind of moron who thought he needed a Rubicon Jeep for his hunting trip once a year, Id smarten up and try to buy the Accord off my dad, or go grab one myself. But it’s too boring and practical and I’d be trying to find other ways to shred money.
That was the rising of the phoenix from the ashes of the 8th-Gen Accord, ponderous with 3-way VCM cylinder-deactivation (no VTEC cam), despite being the last Accord with SLA suspension up-front and hydraulic steering. (The Euro Accord, or our TSX, was the choice.) Then the 10th-Gen built on the good traits, despite occasional fuel-washdown issues in the L15s; the K20C3s were classic Honda--overbuilt, meaning better for turbo duty!
Then some eco-weenie decided that dammit-all, we’re gonna shove hybrids down everybody’s throats, and while we’re at it, we’re gonna ELIMINATE features that the last Accord had (adaptive dampers), and stuff that they’ve had for DECADES (XM Satellite Radio, factory HomeLink, foglights), and while we’re at it, the Camry’s handling is more than adequate now that we’re SAVING THE FUCKING PLANET!!!
And that’s how the 11th-Gen “Accord,” aka, CAMRY, was born! (Until the new one wipes the floor with the Accord, then rips the engine out and pisses in the battery box!)
"At any point prior to about 2005, you could have sold this as a Ferrari."
Case in point: The Lamborghini Urus. That thing looks NOTHING like a Lamborghini - in fact, more like the fleets of anonymous mommymobiles plying our roads.
It does one extremely lambo quality. It’s ugly
I watched a 1993 Motorweek on the Diablo the other day. Good God, that's a beautiful car. Looks like a spaceship - in a good way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOhTOOtYT9U
What happened to you, Lamborghini?
They sold out to ze germans
The Levante is OK--if only just!
A purple Lamborghini is still fly as hell, damn who say otherwise