John, thanks, that was a lot of work… I will have to re-read it several time to get all the information so well presented.. Oh and I really like your giving Sir Jack plausible deniability at the end.. 🤔🤔
At this stage of the game, this is the only concrete way I can express my thanks to my teachers, mentors, and inspirations in music.
I used to sit in Boris Goldovsky's music room, and he would tell me stories. Because of him, there are only four people shaking hands between Beethoven, and... little old me.
You have generously given me a week's worth of homework, Mr Marks, and now I have to look up Solyent Green as well! And, maybe, watch the film or has it not aged well?
For sure not as impressive as Beethoven, but I've interviewed Jorma Kaukonen of Jefferson Airplane / Hot Tuna, the right Rev. Billy Gibbons, and Bob Dylan's son-in-law is a friend. That puts me maybe two degrees away from just about everyone significant in rock and roll.
I typically write about cars, not music, so I've never interviewed either one of those guys but I did meet Bob Seger at a NAIAS media preview, which he was attending as a VIP guest of the show, not appearing for a car company. He was pretty gracious.
You've gotten me thinking about the musicians that I've met.
I've met Jimmy McCarty a bunch of times. He was in the Detroit Wheels (w/ Mitch Ryder), the Rockets, and Cactus. Jim and Jimi Hendrix were roommates for a while in NYC.
I've sold t-shirts to Steve Kimock, who played with The Other Ones and is in one of Bob Weir's bands so that's my second hand connection to the Grateful Dead scene.
Jeff Lace at Lace Music helps me make the Harmonicaster's pickups, so that makes me adjacent to Jeff Beck, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, and Eric Clapton. I've also spoken about pickups with Lindy Fralin and Larry Fishman so that puts me adjacent to anyone famous that uses their pickups.
I interviewed Mike Soldano so that makes me adjacent to Eddie Van Halen.
At a summer NAMM show I met Tommy Emmanuel and had a chance to watch him play close up.
I know Lee Oskar, who played harmonica in War and Magic Dick, who was in the J. Geils Band. Peter "Madcat" Ruth, another world class harmonica player, toured with Dave Brubeck.
another very high effort and deeply informative post from john marks and yet somehow does not cost extra to read. you even had some great lines in there too. plenty of new material to absorb!
Thanks again for the listening list and your insight. I do love some of the war horses, though, particularly the Beethoven. Should I feel guilty?
My local FM classical station does an excellent job of playing the deeper cuts; any familiarity I have with some of your dark horses is entirely due to them. I hope they do not get too infected with public radio disease.
The great thing about chamber music is that even the war horses are not all that well known outside of a small group of aficionados. I'm not sure there is a chamber piece, other than the 20 or so that are routinely excerpted at weddings and receptions, that I would describe as "overplayed" in the way any odd-numbered Beethoven symphony is.
In opera, supposedly, the most performed short operas are "Cav" and "Pag." If there were over-exposed string quartets, I would nominate those of Debussy and Ravel, both of whom wrote only one. So, they are "Deb" and "Rav."
Perhaps you could discuss the qualities of those pieces that led to them becoming War Horses. Rhapsody in Blue is pretty good, after all. What's your opinion of the Mercury recording of the Detroit Symphony & Paul Paray doing the New World?
As it is, the piece is longer than 5,000 words, and Part 2 is as long. Rhapsody gives pianists lots of opportunities to show off, and it has lots of hummable phrases or melodies. I have not heard the Paray Detroit New World. My longtime fave is Antal Dorati on London Phase 4. The orchestra is the New Philharmonia.
Detroit had the bad luck to have the Ford family pay for a concert hall in the time frame when some acousticians had convinced themselves that all that mattered was the "Initial Time Delay Gap." So the auditorium that got built was more of a "Multi-Use Municipal or Civic Auditorium" more than it was a real concert hall. They spent a lot of money trying to fix it and it was eventually torn down.
That's why the Paray DSO New World was recorded at the auditorium of Cass Tech high school and not Ford Auditorium. Apparently, by then the acoustically superior Orchestra Hall was in too poor condition to use as a recording venue. Since then, Orchestra Hall has received an extensive restoration and expansion of the facilities.
"By the mid-1770s, when France was bankrupting itself to help we, the Colonies, get a divorce from England (the financial stress of which was, in my view, the Sine Qua Non cause of the French Revolution), "
My son is a bit of a monarchist and he likes to remind me that defending the Colonies in the French & Indian War was rather costly for the British as well.
As the US found out rapidly when it ended. US GDP fell by about 50% in the 15 years post independence, in large part owing to the cost of defending itself from French and Spanish attentions. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, until he isn't...
Another wonderful column even without strippers and the Harris video featuring Walker Evans is a much appreciated bonus. Thank you again John for all you give us here.
My pleasure, really. As you can imagine, Gerontius is a tall order to stage. You need heroic singers. And you need an audience that has an attention span of 90 minutes.
Thanks for the post, looking forward to pt 2. I think I said on a previous post that I’ve struggled with Gerontius for at least 45 years. I hope it wasn’t me who said it was “too Catholic”. I just like Elgar’s Apostles and Kingdom oratorios much better.
Maybe it’s just that the inner nerd in me thinks of Gerontius Took whenever I hear Elgars piece.
AS A common pleb, Holst's "The Planets" is a favorite of mine. However, I also have delusions of grandeur and I love to hear pieces I've never heard before so I will be sampling every "dark horse" on your list. How "dark horse" is Janacek? His "Simfonietta" is used as a plot point in Murakami's 1Q84, I quite like it.
Janacek's "Glagolitic Mass" (the language of which is Church Old Slavonic) is very dynamic. It is really outside the stream of most Roman church music from the Middle Ages to the present. Well worth checking it out!
Although it's been over 45 years, I don't think the Survey of Western Civ class I attended dedicated any time at all to music. And the Prof's book that was required reading even mentioned Western musicians in the title.
Thank you, Sir Jack, for all the work that getting all that ready for the web took.
john
With work of this quality, as Morrissey said, the privilege, the pleasure is mine!
John, thanks, that was a lot of work… I will have to re-read it several time to get all the information so well presented.. Oh and I really like your giving Sir Jack plausible deniability at the end.. 🤔🤔
Thank you.
At this stage of the game, this is the only concrete way I can express my thanks to my teachers, mentors, and inspirations in music.
I used to sit in Boris Goldovsky's music room, and he would tell me stories. Because of him, there are only four people shaking hands between Beethoven, and... little old me.
four degrees of beethoven is insane
i didnt think that was even possible
Me | (1) Mr. Goldovsky | (2) Artur Schnabel | (3) Theodor Leschetizky | (4) Carl Czerny | Beethoven.
I am unworthy. Oh! Via my college violin teacher, there are only three people shaking hands between me and Tchaikovsky.
But please remember that, unlike Cap'n Jack, I am totally ready for the "Soylent Green" Conveyor Belt.
You have generously given me a week's worth of homework, Mr Marks, and now I have to look up Solyent Green as well! And, maybe, watch the film or has it not aged well?
My guess is that it has aged well, for the most part.
For sure not as impressive as Beethoven, but I've interviewed Jorma Kaukonen of Jefferson Airplane / Hot Tuna, the right Rev. Billy Gibbons, and Bob Dylan's son-in-law is a friend. That puts me maybe two degrees away from just about everyone significant in rock and roll.
Not a surprise!
My guess is that you’ve at least interviewed various Detroit rock icons such as Bob Seger and Alice Cooper.
I typically write about cars, not music, so I've never interviewed either one of those guys but I did meet Bob Seger at a NAIAS media preview, which he was attending as a VIP guest of the show, not appearing for a car company. He was pretty gracious.
You've gotten me thinking about the musicians that I've met.
I've met Jimmy McCarty a bunch of times. He was in the Detroit Wheels (w/ Mitch Ryder), the Rockets, and Cactus. Jim and Jimi Hendrix were roommates for a while in NYC.
I've sold t-shirts to Steve Kimock, who played with The Other Ones and is in one of Bob Weir's bands so that's my second hand connection to the Grateful Dead scene.
Jeff Lace at Lace Music helps me make the Harmonicaster's pickups, so that makes me adjacent to Jeff Beck, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, and Eric Clapton. I've also spoken about pickups with Lindy Fralin and Larry Fishman so that puts me adjacent to anyone famous that uses their pickups.
I interviewed Mike Soldano so that makes me adjacent to Eddie Van Halen.
At a summer NAMM show I met Tommy Emmanuel and had a chance to watch him play close up.
I know Lee Oskar, who played harmonica in War and Magic Dick, who was in the J. Geils Band. Peter "Madcat" Ruth, another world class harmonica player, toured with Dave Brubeck.
another very high effort and deeply informative post from john marks and yet somehow does not cost extra to read. you even had some great lines in there too. plenty of new material to absorb!
Thanks again for the listening list and your insight. I do love some of the war horses, though, particularly the Beethoven. Should I feel guilty?
My local FM classical station does an excellent job of playing the deeper cuts; any familiarity I have with some of your dark horses is entirely due to them. I hope they do not get too infected with public radio disease.
Nyet, do not feel guilty. Beethoven deserves credit for freeing Western Music from the need to use words to express specific thoughts and emotions.
Even more importantly, the thing that Beethoven elevated to the highest value was the value of the unfettered individual human soul.
THAT is the ultimate "Before and After" in Western Music.
All the rest is merely details.
Says I.
jean
Which piece would be the best one to “smoke one to”?
In this, Part 1, I'd guess Darius Milhaud: Le Bœuf sur le toit.
But in Part 2, the stronger contender is: Toru Takemitsu: From Me Flows What You Call Time.
john
Oh boy, there's a part two coming??
Yes, and the playlist is already up on Qobuz.
https://play.qobuz.com/playlist/27618531
Is there such a thing as music that isn't good to "smoke one to"?
This is a great post. Thank you.
The great thing about chamber music is that even the war horses are not all that well known outside of a small group of aficionados. I'm not sure there is a chamber piece, other than the 20 or so that are routinely excerpted at weddings and receptions, that I would describe as "overplayed" in the way any odd-numbered Beethoven symphony is.
In opera, supposedly, the most performed short operas are "Cav" and "Pag." If there were over-exposed string quartets, I would nominate those of Debussy and Ravel, both of whom wrote only one. So, they are "Deb" and "Rav."
I wonder where Bach’s “Brandenburg Concertos” would fit?
#5 fits in into Part 2, and I think it is the FUNNIEST bit of music criticism I have ever written!!!!!
I look forward to it (one explanation point!)
John,
Perhaps you could discuss the qualities of those pieces that led to them becoming War Horses. Rhapsody in Blue is pretty good, after all. What's your opinion of the Mercury recording of the Detroit Symphony & Paul Paray doing the New World?
As it is, the piece is longer than 5,000 words, and Part 2 is as long. Rhapsody gives pianists lots of opportunities to show off, and it has lots of hummable phrases or melodies. I have not heard the Paray Detroit New World. My longtime fave is Antal Dorati on London Phase 4. The orchestra is the New Philharmonia.
Detroit had the bad luck to have the Ford family pay for a concert hall in the time frame when some acousticians had convinced themselves that all that mattered was the "Initial Time Delay Gap." So the auditorium that got built was more of a "Multi-Use Municipal or Civic Auditorium" more than it was a real concert hall. They spent a lot of money trying to fix it and it was eventually torn down.
That's why the Paray DSO New World was recorded at the auditorium of Cass Tech high school and not Ford Auditorium. Apparently, by then the acoustically superior Orchestra Hall was in too poor condition to use as a recording venue. Since then, Orchestra Hall has received an extensive restoration and expansion of the facilities.
This is the only concert that I attended at Ford Auditorium. As you can tell from the audience recording it sounded pretty good, but then they had the assistance of Owsley on the PA. https://archive.org/details/gd72-10-30.aud.cotsman.10915.sbeok.shnf
I didn’t know Ford Auditorium had been demolished. When did that happen?
Late '90s, to make room for Hart Plaza.
Ah!
"By the mid-1770s, when France was bankrupting itself to help we, the Colonies, get a divorce from England (the financial stress of which was, in my view, the Sine Qua Non cause of the French Revolution), "
My son is a bit of a monarchist and he likes to remind me that defending the Colonies in the French & Indian War was rather costly for the British as well.
As the US found out rapidly when it ended. US GDP fell by about 50% in the 15 years post independence, in large part owing to the cost of defending itself from French and Spanish attentions. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, until he isn't...
"France has no friends, only interests." - attributed to Charles De Gaulle
It has been suggested that this is why we have a nuclear deterrent.
Another wonderful column even without strippers and the Harris video featuring Walker Evans is a much appreciated bonus. Thank you again John for all you give us here.
Did my Nashville stripper story stick in your memory???
john
I wasn't aware of Elgar's Dream of Gerontius, thank you!
My pleasure, really. As you can imagine, Gerontius is a tall order to stage. You need heroic singers. And you need an audience that has an attention span of 90 minutes.
Warhorse: Aaron Copland’s Fanfare for the Common Man
Darkhorse ?
Warhorse: Eagles song “Hotel California”
Darkhorse?
Warhorse: Aaron Copland’s Fanfare for the Common Man
Darkhorse: Ravel's "Fanfare" from the ballet "L'eventail de Jeanne" ("Jean's Fan")
Warhorse: Eagles song “Hotel California”
Darkhorse: Jesse Colin Young "Grey Day" from the album "Light Shine"
Thanks for asking!
Thanks for the post, looking forward to pt 2. I think I said on a previous post that I’ve struggled with Gerontius for at least 45 years. I hope it wasn’t me who said it was “too Catholic”. I just like Elgar’s Apostles and Kingdom oratorios much better.
Maybe it’s just that the inner nerd in me thinks of Gerontius Took whenever I hear Elgars piece.
AS A common pleb, Holst's "The Planets" is a favorite of mine. However, I also have delusions of grandeur and I love to hear pieces I've never heard before so I will be sampling every "dark horse" on your list. How "dark horse" is Janacek? His "Simfonietta" is used as a plot point in Murakami's 1Q84, I quite like it.
Janacek's "Glagolitic Mass" (the language of which is Church Old Slavonic) is very dynamic. It is really outside the stream of most Roman church music from the Middle Ages to the present. Well worth checking it out!
Although it's been over 45 years, I don't think the Survey of Western Civ class I attended dedicated any time at all to music. And the Prof's book that was required reading even mentioned Western musicians in the title.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2285295.From_Metternich_to_the_Beatles