Im adding a comment here that I hope Jack will pin.
If you like to do hand wash and hand dry, cool! I cant post a pic of my supplies cabinet but Jack can vouch. Ive tried them all. Current best is McKees 37 graphene auto wash (yes you CAN let it dry on a black car in the hot sun, its amazing) followed by drying with a Griots Garage “PFM” drying towel, and the best drying aid, by 8 trillion miles, is Optimum Opti-Seal. One spray per panel as you dry. Life changing.
I use the Gtechniq drying agent on my car and I must agree that drying agents are life changing. They are like magic compared to how I dried my washed cars previously.
When I got my C7, I wanted my car to have that liquid look you see in magazine cover photos. I realize that those are manipulated photos, however, I achieved that look with PPF over the whole car, topped with a ceramic coating. I could not be happier with the look and performance of the products on my car.
How do you feel about the Ammo products? Not Larry personally, but the products themselves. Also, have you heard of Oberk? He's a newer company out of Wisconsin and been doing sponsorships for some of the drifters here in the Midwest. I got his wheel cleaner, tire cleaner, and general wash soap. So far I'm very impressed with all 3 products, but the tire cleaner recently separated and turned to jelly at the bottom of the bottle. Not sure if it's because I'm storing it incorrectly or what, but that's the only issue I've had thus far.
Ammo has some things I like and some that I’m meh about. But they arent offered in bulk so its very costly to use them in any type of volume. I think my favorite is their Hydrate. Alot of the products he offers are really good concepts especially the anti salt rinseless washes etc. They are just very costly. You can get some pretty awesome anti salt wash from valu gard in bulk (5 gallon pails) that works even better, but the weekend warrior isnt gonna cough up for that amount of product.
I mostly use Ammo stuff. The initial cost is high, but I seem to need so little of everything that my yearly cost is still probably 1/10 of what a car wash subscription would be.
This is extremely helpful, even if your wildly inappropriate, juvenile captions had me busting a gut laughing.
Tommy: What are the secret shibboleths to figure out if a professional ceramic detailer is an actual pro? Ask the steps he uses in the process or an hours needed estimate? Everyone and his mom offers `ceramic` as a service, but obviously that doesn't mean anything.
The best way I know how is to go to the coating manufacturer (there are kinda like 4 or 5 “serious” coatings that are commercial only. Im approved on IGL for example) and look for their approved installers. I had to submit work for inspection before I got approval. I believe the others do the same). Its enough of a pain in the ass that sammy shithead with his rotary buffer and “ya gotta let the paint breathe” and baby diapers isnt gonna get approved, and then he (or she) is not going to be able to get the stuff you have to be approved to even buy (so for example Kenzo is IGLs flagship coating, you cant buy it without a business and an account/password that they give you after approval).
But if you want to know my secret sniff test? Ask to see their towels. True nutcases only use new towels on every job. If im charging you 2-3grand for coating, and my reputation, im not saving $20 on towels. New towels for every ceramic job (and I really like the yellow “eurow” ones on amazon. I hate the costco ones, sorry costco fans)
Fair point. I typically use them out of the bag to clean the window glass. When they get funky I use them for grease oil or whatever cleanup and toss them.
Even though I'm defending them I would not recommend using them on glass brand new. The lint is counter-productive to detailing. They are pretty good on glass after one wash, as mentioned. I keep a few cut pieces in camera bags for that reason.
To the occasional driveway detailer the Costco ones are fine. No offense taken. If you're talking about pro use that may be different. The Costcos are good for house tasks too, btw.
Any thoughts on carpro products or how they compare to igl? I'm curious if it's worth looking at upgrading.
I've used cquartz on my E60, but I've honestly been most impressed with the spray-on, rinse off hydro2. On anything kept inside, it's generally over a month of protection for maybe 5 minutes of install time.
I like carpro. I have not kept up with their latest pro coating though as I dont have an approval on it.
The hydro2 is awesome - try the mckees hydro blue - I like that even better (less streaky). Id say of all the new wave detailing stuff - the spray on rinse off stuff is my favorite - not only for the tiny effort, but for the ability to get all kinds of complex things “waxed” (for instance as jack mentioned, the lawn mower)
On a somewhat related note, any product recommendations for the unpainted black plastic trim on an early LR3? I've struggled to find something that works well on it
I only tried ceramic coating once, and it was Autoglym UHD - spent an entire weekend polishing the car beforehand, so the paint was perfect.
The coating looked really nice and shiny in the first week, but the durability wasn't much better then a coat of Collinite 845, so i was rather disappointed when it started looking dull and full of hairlines after a few weeks and a couple of washes.
would still like to try a more professional spec coating, but i am never wasting money on the cheap stuff again.
Thanks for the breakdown. Been thinking about doing a coating on both my TX and Tacoma. Sounds like it's not too crazy of a process but I think I'll have to wait until spring for the conditions to be right.
VTNoah as long as the car isn’t black, I think a great first timer coating process is the Adams one step polish (with their dedicated one step pad) followed by their coating prep spray, and then their advanced graphene coating. (Kit with prep spray : https://a.co/d/gPQDL3X ).
This is very timely. As you know, I bought that 2024 Volkswagen Golf R in Mythos Black (a subtle metallic black color, also shared with some Audi, Škoda and SEAT models), and I'd really like to keep it looking nice. I've been hand-washing and air-drying it.
I paid handsomely to have a professional ceramic coat my prior two black cars, and wasn't super impressed for the price. I'd rather do it myself, if possible, even if that means doing it more often. But I've never so much as hand-buffed a car before.
I may practice on the 2015 Land Rover LR4, once I get that back from the shop. It is Santorini Black (also a metallic black), so it should be good practice.
I expect it to be the same as painting a room: do you need just a coat of paint, filling a few spots, or full reframe with drywall and mudding. Then it's local hourly rate plus materials and markup. I expect >1k.
If you want to dip your toe into polishing the harbor freight model is an easy way in. Pair that with a better backing plate and a couple of pads and you're good to go. The polisher is good for wood sanding as well, not to mention applying wax.
The Smoking Tire addressed this recently. He said there are three parts. There’s the chemical, which I think he said $500-1k? And then there’s the application of the chemical, which is about the same. But crucially the third part is the detail before the chemical, and that’s the expensive part. If you have a brand new car with minimal paint correction needed, it’s one price; if you have my dumpster fire of a car that needs hours of work first, that’s quite another price.
Can you speak more on maintenance washes? Do you have to use a Si02 fortified soap? Is the 2-bucket method still preferred? I see people doing a wash where they use a ton of MF towels and only do a few swiped each.
How do you compare the quality of pro-level coatings? When I looked into this a few years back, most answers depended upon which coating someone paid to have on their car or which coating the installer paid to be certified in. I wouldn’t necessarily put stock in either.
One comment/tip for everyone:
The blower is a game changer. My personal recommendation is a smaller “job site” blower with a rubber nozzle, it’s easier to manure and you’re less likely to scratch the paint if it accidentally comes in contact with the car.
The big blowers move more air though, so it does take longer. I’ve seen 3D printed stubby nozzles with silicone tips. That would be a great option too.
1: you do not have to use an si02 fortified soap. If done right, you already have coating on there, the little amount of ceramic in the soap isnt even going to stick to whats on your car already. I have nothing against using si02 soaps - its just not required.
Two bucket wash is still gold - but the majority of my customers are “very good enough” with a foam pressure wash. Its nicer for most people to have a “90% detailed looking” vehicle most of the time vs a perfect vehicle every time they feel like putting in hours of work or paying someone. With a good coating you can foam, dwell, pressure wash, and blow dry, and your car will look “very good” in about 20 minutes.
2: the good pro stuff is better simply because it is more concentrated. Which also makes it more of a pain to remove, and you have to watch how it flashes based on temp, humidity, etc. Its just not as forgiving. I know I did one of our member’s new cars here at his home a few months back (a new M4 convertible). The humidity made it hell to do and I had to rope him in to help me buff it of fast enough. Hopefully he can chime in on his experience with pro level ceramics.
That said there are some really good consumer level coatings. Im not a brand loyal person in any way, so I try them all - my wifes car has the latest Adams too level coating ($150ish?) and its on year 2 and looking great. I can vouch for the ones Jack mentioned. Others Ive found to be awful. Meguiars and Griots (who make lots of stuff that I love) have terrible ceramic products in my experience.
Convertible tops is a loaded question. Assuming fabric and decent shape : Raggtopp has that market covered and its good stuff. There are also pro level fabric coatings you can have done.
Deeper interior cleaning : meguiars professional all purpose cleaner (they may call it citrus power clean now?) bought by the gallon and diluted to preference. And if you can afford to, get a good extractor/bagged vacuum setup (hint: I sell them and I believe it is the best product on the market and I just havent had the time to finish my website and marketing for them). For cloth seats you extraction clean them properly then treat with IGL Fabric and you will stay clean a long time.
“Maintenance” interior cleaning (leather seats dash etc) I like Einszett Cockpit Premium or Mckees 37 FAST Interior detailer.
For rubber seals I use ceramic coating on them. 303 makes a product too (and im sure we all remember gummipfledge) but those products are always too greasy for me. Zymol used to make something called Seal that was very good. I dont know if they still make it…
If you want to sell me a vacuum, send me an email. JB has it.
One last question. I bought a 2012 E350 wagon on BaT a while back, and the selling dealer resprayed the front bumper cover after patching the license plate holder screw holes, then ceramic coated the entire car. He did a great job. In retrospect I wish that I had installed PPF over the front clip. If I want to have PPF installed (the front end still has no flaws), am I correct in assuming that the Ceramic Pro coating should be stripped off whatever body panel I install PPF on?
Yes the PPF is better applied without ceramic. If you have a polisher you can use a one step and that should take it down enough that a strong prep spray (which is what the ppf guy will use anyways) should pull off any remnants.
I’ll preface with this: My Viper is ceramic coated. My others cars are not. I have a full Adams Graphene kit in the garage I keep intending to use but haven’t yet.
As an “amateur” detailer, I have done some pretty intense corrections on a multitude of vehicles leading up to and including some pretty expensive cars - or at least they were at the time.
I’ll 100% stand behind the idea of your best results are based on the correction below. I’ve tired to see how a ceramic would act on something like damaged clearcoat - basically changed nothing. I believe people assume it to have a much thicker mill rating than it actually is.
I greatly enjoy having the ceramic on the Viper as I got into the habit of using Adams waterless ceramic wash on it. SO FAR it seemingly allows me to keep the car pretty clean with out a full traditional wash and without introducing scratches. The car has a very impressive and lasting shine.
Caveat - the correction below is is not to my standards. It’s about 90% there. When I set out to do them right I’m not happy until it’s swirl free glass.
Likewise I’ve had instances where I had to correct a spot. My young nephew was unattended as usual and couldn’t find the door handle, so he clawed the crap out of my door. I buffed it out but then that untreated spot was noticeably less shiny than the rest of the car. I DON’T know what ceramic the car wears and I’ve heard you aren’t supposed to mix them. As a ‘Joe’ I don’t know how true that always holds but it’s something to be aware of. I layered lots of ceramic detailer over along with a little BlackFire sealant. Can’t tell now, but I feel the entire car should be redone with a common product.
- Machine polishing an entire car with a hardened surface product is labor intensive. I’d be interesting in knowing if you can just keep layering on ceramics like a wax
Ceramics vs a HIGH END Carnauba wax vs Sealant
Idk how nerdy our readers can get, but there are some insanely expensive carnauba waxes available to the public. Some costing thousands, where you break it down and warm in your hands before applying.
The thing about such a wax vs a ceramic is the color and final texture. The ceramic is extremely clear in nature. The depth added to the paint is done moreso by filling the microscopic valleys and creating a wet look. The wax will often tint the hue EVER so slightly but it generally enriches the color itself ALONG with creating a surface that’s more refractive in nature, adding to the mountains and valleys which will have a metallic color absolutely popping in the sunshine.
Unfortunately they don’t offer the hardness / protection but the level of shine is on par or exceeding it seems to the naked eye. This is a nice resolve for a car that might get more casual correction work and has a complimenting color.
For a solid color, especially a BLACK vehicle I’m extremely biased on using the ceramic or a paint sealant ; with BlackFire being my favorite. It dries clear and won’t leave the wax pot marks over rock chips. I think that’s an often overlooked advantage of ceramics in that it doesn’t exemplify such imperfections. Even with most compounding you’ll see those show up a day later as all the fillers finally settle down.
I also like to cut with the Meguiars 105 / 205 with my preference to the 105. Just note they DO have fillers and your correction may need more work once you prep for ceramic with alcohol. The aforementioned waxes / sealants skip this step and will hide blemishes accordingly and in a friendlier manner. I think this is why the mention of wetsanding black is a thing. FYI 3M now does a Trizact program for this with extremely fine grades.
I would tell anyone green to wetsanding to not drop below 1200 grit with a soapy mix, especially if you are unaware of clearcoat thickness.
Sidenote: I HIGHLY recommend the Lake Country CCS pads while using a D/A buffer. They stay wet like wool without the worry of burning or dry whipping on the edges.
I really want to try the Ceramic on a car with old and more porcelain like paint. My 85 mustang suffers from micro-cracking. With a fresh correction it looks like pure white glass. If left outside for long periods it the paint voids will fill with dirt and ‘staining’ showing heavily cracked or crows footed surface. If you can fill those in it would be a Godsend. So far neither the waxes or sealants have been capable.
Hopefully that sheds a little insight from a scrub’s perspective that often fixes “professional shops” work and is known for turning blacktop into glass.
Do what makes you happy. But I havent found a wax I love enough to bother with on my two silver cars other than Pinnacle Liquid Souveran (not the paste).
No downsides other than time and you are “touching the car” so you could be adding swirls. Appearance is so hard to judge - I dont think it adds much other than psychologically - but sometimes its just nice and relaxing to do it.
When I got my Bullitt in 2019, I took it over to a well respected detailer in the area. Spent over $2k on paint correction and a high end ceramic coating. It was….ok. What surprised me, and maybe my expectations on it were wrong, but it sure didn’t seem to provide much protection against small scratches. It beaded water well and for a long time, but it seemed overly soft when challenged with scratches. Would I do it again? Likely not.
That is a lot of money for a meh result. Around me I think a full, not-ceramic detail* is in the $500 neighborhood but I am not sure, hoping the author gets back to us. Does your Bullitt have a vinyl stripe?
*edit: which is to say that the prep involved in what Tommy was talking about seems like it could easily get in the $2k range, so I better be f'ing thrilled.
Keep in mind that’s Canadian dollars, but it was also pre-Covid.
Nope. No stripe. Just Dark Highland Green. It looked spectacular when I picked it up, but it also has typically thin, shitty Ford paint. I often wondered how great that colour would have looked with an old Aston paint treatment. 15 or 20 coats, each hand rubbed and polished. Old Aston’s were shitty cars, but great ownership experiences. A 928, for instance, was a dramatically better car then its contemporary Aston V8, but while you would admire the 928 for its capabilities, the Aston is the one that would steal your heart.
Thanks for this and the info from the comments. I like my car to look nice and shiny but truly HATE detailing or waxing. The idea of spending two days polishing a car seems like some form of hell. So if a professional ceramic coat means the water will bead up for 3+ years I'm interested in the investment. I just have a lot of trouble figuring out who is qualified and how much it should cost. Any suggestions on how to figure out which shops in my area are qualified?
For amusement, here is Project Farm's test on consumer grade ceramic coatings:
When it first hit the scene I thought “no way it’s this easy; making a car shiny is supposed to be *hard*”
Well just like what DJI drones did for aerial cinematography and Apple did for music, any idiot can be a detailing expert these days…which is why even though I trust the science(tm) I still can’t trust the sketchy kids who call themselves detailers these days.
That and trying to get any sort of coherent information online about detailing methods, equipment, and products, is like stepping in to a “what’s your favorite optical mouse” conversation at a circa-2004 LAN party.
This is timely, as the DIY ceramic coating I put on my 335i when I bought it in November 2022 is pretty much gone. I literally have something on my calendar every day between now and February so I'm not going to be able to DIY again. It's helpful to have a sense of what the pros are doing so I can understand what they're saying when I talk to them.
I wonder if the SiO2 coating is gone, or if they polymer that provides the beading and some of the shine is. Try this stuff, https://www.systemx.com/renew-ceramic-coating/ its a doesn't have much in the way of solids, but if the ceramic coating is intact it will make it like new. IIRC to maintain the warranty on some of the professional coatings for the full time period it needs this every 2 years.
Thanks! Can't tell what I'm looking at, but it's not nearly as shiny and not beading as well. This car is garaged, but not a garage queen, and does see rain once in a while.
Any tips for care of vinyl on cars? My Charger Daytona has quite a bit of vinyl as part of the graphics package and it’s not wearing particularly well. I would like to clean it up and protect it somehow, but I’m leery of creating any additional damage.
There is a product category Vinyl Rubber and Plastic (VRP) made by numerous brands, I happen to use Masterson's. Great for restoring faded plastic cladding and as a subtle tire shine. The vinyl cleaning depends on the contaminant. Always good to start with a mild all purpose cleaner if in doubt.
Im adding a comment here that I hope Jack will pin.
If you like to do hand wash and hand dry, cool! I cant post a pic of my supplies cabinet but Jack can vouch. Ive tried them all. Current best is McKees 37 graphene auto wash (yes you CAN let it dry on a black car in the hot sun, its amazing) followed by drying with a Griots Garage “PFM” drying towel, and the best drying aid, by 8 trillion miles, is Optimum Opti-Seal. One spray per panel as you dry. Life changing.
I use the Gtechniq drying agent on my car and I must agree that drying agents are life changing. They are like magic compared to how I dried my washed cars previously.
When I got my C7, I wanted my car to have that liquid look you see in magazine cover photos. I realize that those are manipulated photos, however, I achieved that look with PPF over the whole car, topped with a ceramic coating. I could not be happier with the look and performance of the products on my car.
How do you feel about the Ammo products? Not Larry personally, but the products themselves. Also, have you heard of Oberk? He's a newer company out of Wisconsin and been doing sponsorships for some of the drifters here in the Midwest. I got his wheel cleaner, tire cleaner, and general wash soap. So far I'm very impressed with all 3 products, but the tire cleaner recently separated and turned to jelly at the bottom of the bottle. Not sure if it's because I'm storing it incorrectly or what, but that's the only issue I've had thus far.
Ammo has some things I like and some that I’m meh about. But they arent offered in bulk so its very costly to use them in any type of volume. I think my favorite is their Hydrate. Alot of the products he offers are really good concepts especially the anti salt rinseless washes etc. They are just very costly. You can get some pretty awesome anti salt wash from valu gard in bulk (5 gallon pails) that works even better, but the weekend warrior isnt gonna cough up for that amount of product.
I totally understand that if you're washing hundreds of cars a year!
I mostly use Ammo stuff. The initial cost is high, but I seem to need so little of everything that my yearly cost is still probably 1/10 of what a car wash subscription would be.
Zaino for me is the right ratio of outcome/work for me. I don’t judge anyone who does more or less.
Zaino is just rebranded Dura-gloss. Use the same time you do for your zaino process and use a good consumer coating instead.
This is extremely helpful, even if your wildly inappropriate, juvenile captions had me busting a gut laughing.
Tommy: What are the secret shibboleths to figure out if a professional ceramic detailer is an actual pro? Ask the steps he uses in the process or an hours needed estimate? Everyone and his mom offers `ceramic` as a service, but obviously that doesn't mean anything.
For starters : this is Tommy.
The best way I know how is to go to the coating manufacturer (there are kinda like 4 or 5 “serious” coatings that are commercial only. Im approved on IGL for example) and look for their approved installers. I had to submit work for inspection before I got approval. I believe the others do the same). Its enough of a pain in the ass that sammy shithead with his rotary buffer and “ya gotta let the paint breathe” and baby diapers isnt gonna get approved, and then he (or she) is not going to be able to get the stuff you have to be approved to even buy (so for example Kenzo is IGLs flagship coating, you cant buy it without a business and an account/password that they give you after approval).
But if you want to know my secret sniff test? Ask to see their towels. True nutcases only use new towels on every job. If im charging you 2-3grand for coating, and my reputation, im not saving $20 on towels. New towels for every ceramic job (and I really like the yellow “eurow” ones on amazon. I hate the costco ones, sorry costco fans)
You get a second heart for also hating the Costco microfiber towels. It's not just me!?!?
They are garbage. Lint everywhere
Respectful counterpoint: not after one wash.
Fair point. I typically use them out of the bag to clean the window glass. When they get funky I use them for grease oil or whatever cleanup and toss them.
Even though I'm defending them I would not recommend using them on glass brand new. The lint is counter-productive to detailing. They are pretty good on glass after one wash, as mentioned. I keep a few cut pieces in camera bags for that reason.
My experience is that they're useless (lint streaks) on glass after being washed a couple of times. Maybe it's the ordinary Kirkland detergent I use.
To the occasional driveway detailer the Costco ones are fine. No offense taken. If you're talking about pro use that may be different. The Costcos are good for house tasks too, btw.
We love them around the house!
Any thoughts on carpro products or how they compare to igl? I'm curious if it's worth looking at upgrading.
I've used cquartz on my E60, but I've honestly been most impressed with the spray-on, rinse off hydro2. On anything kept inside, it's generally over a month of protection for maybe 5 minutes of install time.
I like carpro. I have not kept up with their latest pro coating though as I dont have an approval on it.
The hydro2 is awesome - try the mckees hydro blue - I like that even better (less streaky). Id say of all the new wave detailing stuff - the spray on rinse off stuff is my favorite - not only for the tiny effort, but for the ability to get all kinds of complex things “waxed” (for instance as jack mentioned, the lawn mower)
Thank you! I'll check it out.
On a somewhat related note, any product recommendations for the unpainted black plastic trim on an early LR3? I've struggled to find something that works well on it
Ceramic coating!! Try the Adams stuff.
I only tried ceramic coating once, and it was Autoglym UHD - spent an entire weekend polishing the car beforehand, so the paint was perfect.
The coating looked really nice and shiny in the first week, but the durability wasn't much better then a coat of Collinite 845, so i was rather disappointed when it started looking dull and full of hairlines after a few weeks and a couple of washes.
would still like to try a more professional spec coating, but i am never wasting money on the cheap stuff again.
Thanks for the breakdown. Been thinking about doing a coating on both my TX and Tacoma. Sounds like it's not too crazy of a process but I think I'll have to wait until spring for the conditions to be right.
VTNoah as long as the car isn’t black, I think a great first timer coating process is the Adams one step polish (with their dedicated one step pad) followed by their coating prep spray, and then their advanced graphene coating. (Kit with prep spray : https://a.co/d/gPQDL3X ).
This assumes you have a polisher of course…
This is very timely. As you know, I bought that 2024 Volkswagen Golf R in Mythos Black (a subtle metallic black color, also shared with some Audi, Škoda and SEAT models), and I'd really like to keep it looking nice. I've been hand-washing and air-drying it.
I paid handsomely to have a professional ceramic coat my prior two black cars, and wasn't super impressed for the price. I'd rather do it myself, if possible, even if that means doing it more often. But I've never so much as hand-buffed a car before.
I may practice on the 2015 Land Rover LR4, once I get that back from the shop. It is Santorini Black (also a metallic black), so it should be good practice.
What was the price?
What is the price for me to NOT do it. Zero percent chance I'm dipping my toes in but if it's not that expensive, I might pay for it.
I expect it to be the same as painting a room: do you need just a coat of paint, filling a few spots, or full reframe with drywall and mudding. Then it's local hourly rate plus materials and markup. I expect >1k.
If you want to dip your toe into polishing the harbor freight model is an easy way in. Pair that with a better backing plate and a couple of pads and you're good to go. The polisher is good for wood sanding as well, not to mention applying wax.
Mozzie I havent tried or looked at the HF polisher - link?
I had to dig a bit to find it since I got it retail. This has to be revised version of my Chicago Electric: https://www.harborfreight.com/57-amp-6-in-short-throw-random-orbit-da-polishersander-64528.html the backing isn't the best so I have a 5" Lake Country on it.
wait how many cars do you have
the golf sounds slick though
I am genuinely impressed that you seemingly buy one new car for every comment you make here haha.
It makes me feel a bit better about my own wandering eye for cars! If Kyree can do it, why can’t I?!
I'm too lazy to do it myself anymore.
I'd pay someone to come out and do it, but I'm worried about the dogs getting into the run off from the process and getting sick.
John Van Stry - ask them to do a “rinseless wash”. That is a viable alternative if necessary.
I’m too lazy and too cheap. My S2000 has 121k hard miles and wears its wear with honor. My Jeep, is a Jeep. Scratches encouraged.
I'm definitely too lazy. I'm trying to figure out if I'm too cheap
The Smoking Tire addressed this recently. He said there are three parts. There’s the chemical, which I think he said $500-1k? And then there’s the application of the chemical, which is about the same. But crucially the third part is the detail before the chemical, and that’s the expensive part. If you have a brand new car with minimal paint correction needed, it’s one price; if you have my dumpster fire of a car that needs hours of work first, that’s quite another price.
So 3-4 k to make my paint shine? Ill pass until i have ferrari money
thats it exactly
if its got battle scars it looks cooler
^ posted from outside the Rust Belt
Two questions for Tommy:
Can you speak more on maintenance washes? Do you have to use a Si02 fortified soap? Is the 2-bucket method still preferred? I see people doing a wash where they use a ton of MF towels and only do a few swiped each.
How do you compare the quality of pro-level coatings? When I looked into this a few years back, most answers depended upon which coating someone paid to have on their car or which coating the installer paid to be certified in. I wouldn’t necessarily put stock in either.
One comment/tip for everyone:
The blower is a game changer. My personal recommendation is a smaller “job site” blower with a rubber nozzle, it’s easier to manure and you’re less likely to scratch the paint if it accidentally comes in contact with the car.
The big blowers move more air though, so it does take longer. I’ve seen 3D printed stubby nozzles with silicone tips. That would be a great option too.
Good tips! Though the operation of the blower sounds like a shitty job.
HA. I’m not even going back to edit that one.
I always assume malapropisms are due to ducking Autocorrect.
1: you do not have to use an si02 fortified soap. If done right, you already have coating on there, the little amount of ceramic in the soap isnt even going to stick to whats on your car already. I have nothing against using si02 soaps - its just not required.
Two bucket wash is still gold - but the majority of my customers are “very good enough” with a foam pressure wash. Its nicer for most people to have a “90% detailed looking” vehicle most of the time vs a perfect vehicle every time they feel like putting in hours of work or paying someone. With a good coating you can foam, dwell, pressure wash, and blow dry, and your car will look “very good” in about 20 minutes.
2: the good pro stuff is better simply because it is more concentrated. Which also makes it more of a pain to remove, and you have to watch how it flashes based on temp, humidity, etc. Its just not as forgiving. I know I did one of our member’s new cars here at his home a few months back (a new M4 convertible). The humidity made it hell to do and I had to rope him in to help me buff it of fast enough. Hopefully he can chime in on his experience with pro level ceramics.
That said there are some really good consumer level coatings. Im not a brand loyal person in any way, so I try them all - my wifes car has the latest Adams too level coating ($150ish?) and its on year 2 and looking great. I can vouch for the ones Jack mentioned. Others Ive found to be awful. Meguiars and Griots (who make lots of stuff that I love) have terrible ceramic products in my experience.
What is the preferred method for convertible top cleaning and preservation?
What are your preferred interior cleaners?
What are your preferred rubber gasket cleaners and preservatives?
Thank you
Convertible tops is a loaded question. Assuming fabric and decent shape : Raggtopp has that market covered and its good stuff. There are also pro level fabric coatings you can have done.
Deeper interior cleaning : meguiars professional all purpose cleaner (they may call it citrus power clean now?) bought by the gallon and diluted to preference. And if you can afford to, get a good extractor/bagged vacuum setup (hint: I sell them and I believe it is the best product on the market and I just havent had the time to finish my website and marketing for them). For cloth seats you extraction clean them properly then treat with IGL Fabric and you will stay clean a long time.
“Maintenance” interior cleaning (leather seats dash etc) I like Einszett Cockpit Premium or Mckees 37 FAST Interior detailer.
For rubber seals I use ceramic coating on them. 303 makes a product too (and im sure we all remember gummipfledge) but those products are always too greasy for me. Zymol used to make something called Seal that was very good. I dont know if they still make it…
Fantastic, thank you very much!
If you want to sell me a vacuum, send me an email. JB has it.
One last question. I bought a 2012 E350 wagon on BaT a while back, and the selling dealer resprayed the front bumper cover after patching the license plate holder screw holes, then ceramic coated the entire car. He did a great job. In retrospect I wish that I had installed PPF over the front clip. If I want to have PPF installed (the front end still has no flaws), am I correct in assuming that the Ceramic Pro coating should be stripped off whatever body panel I install PPF on?
Yes the PPF is better applied without ceramic. If you have a polisher you can use a one step and that should take it down enough that a strong prep spray (which is what the ppf guy will use anyways) should pull off any remnants.
I use 303 fabric guard on the ND’s canvas top. I apply with a paint brush instead of spraying. I use 303 Aerospace on the NA’s vinyl top.
I’ll preface with this: My Viper is ceramic coated. My others cars are not. I have a full Adams Graphene kit in the garage I keep intending to use but haven’t yet.
As an “amateur” detailer, I have done some pretty intense corrections on a multitude of vehicles leading up to and including some pretty expensive cars - or at least they were at the time.
I’ll 100% stand behind the idea of your best results are based on the correction below. I’ve tired to see how a ceramic would act on something like damaged clearcoat - basically changed nothing. I believe people assume it to have a much thicker mill rating than it actually is.
I greatly enjoy having the ceramic on the Viper as I got into the habit of using Adams waterless ceramic wash on it. SO FAR it seemingly allows me to keep the car pretty clean with out a full traditional wash and without introducing scratches. The car has a very impressive and lasting shine.
Caveat - the correction below is is not to my standards. It’s about 90% there. When I set out to do them right I’m not happy until it’s swirl free glass.
Likewise I’ve had instances where I had to correct a spot. My young nephew was unattended as usual and couldn’t find the door handle, so he clawed the crap out of my door. I buffed it out but then that untreated spot was noticeably less shiny than the rest of the car. I DON’T know what ceramic the car wears and I’ve heard you aren’t supposed to mix them. As a ‘Joe’ I don’t know how true that always holds but it’s something to be aware of. I layered lots of ceramic detailer over along with a little BlackFire sealant. Can’t tell now, but I feel the entire car should be redone with a common product.
- Machine polishing an entire car with a hardened surface product is labor intensive. I’d be interesting in knowing if you can just keep layering on ceramics like a wax
Ceramics vs a HIGH END Carnauba wax vs Sealant
Idk how nerdy our readers can get, but there are some insanely expensive carnauba waxes available to the public. Some costing thousands, where you break it down and warm in your hands before applying.
The thing about such a wax vs a ceramic is the color and final texture. The ceramic is extremely clear in nature. The depth added to the paint is done moreso by filling the microscopic valleys and creating a wet look. The wax will often tint the hue EVER so slightly but it generally enriches the color itself ALONG with creating a surface that’s more refractive in nature, adding to the mountains and valleys which will have a metallic color absolutely popping in the sunshine.
Unfortunately they don’t offer the hardness / protection but the level of shine is on par or exceeding it seems to the naked eye. This is a nice resolve for a car that might get more casual correction work and has a complimenting color.
For a solid color, especially a BLACK vehicle I’m extremely biased on using the ceramic or a paint sealant ; with BlackFire being my favorite. It dries clear and won’t leave the wax pot marks over rock chips. I think that’s an often overlooked advantage of ceramics in that it doesn’t exemplify such imperfections. Even with most compounding you’ll see those show up a day later as all the fillers finally settle down.
I also like to cut with the Meguiars 105 / 205 with my preference to the 105. Just note they DO have fillers and your correction may need more work once you prep for ceramic with alcohol. The aforementioned waxes / sealants skip this step and will hide blemishes accordingly and in a friendlier manner. I think this is why the mention of wetsanding black is a thing. FYI 3M now does a Trizact program for this with extremely fine grades.
I would tell anyone green to wetsanding to not drop below 1200 grit with a soapy mix, especially if you are unaware of clearcoat thickness.
Sidenote: I HIGHLY recommend the Lake Country CCS pads while using a D/A buffer. They stay wet like wool without the worry of burning or dry whipping on the edges.
I really want to try the Ceramic on a car with old and more porcelain like paint. My 85 mustang suffers from micro-cracking. With a fresh correction it looks like pure white glass. If left outside for long periods it the paint voids will fill with dirt and ‘staining’ showing heavily cracked or crows footed surface. If you can fill those in it would be a Godsend. So far neither the waxes or sealants have been capable.
Hopefully that sheds a little insight from a scrub’s perspective that often fixes “professional shops” work and is known for turning blacktop into glass.
Apologies if that rambled any.
This is a fantastic post. 3M Trizact is EXCELLENT and is pretty much the only wetsanding stuff I use anymore.
What are your thoughts on waxing over ceramic (silver metallic)?
Do what makes you happy. But I havent found a wax I love enough to bother with on my two silver cars other than Pinnacle Liquid Souveran (not the paste).
Thanks...my question was do you recommend it? Would it add protection or enhance appearance? Are there downsides?
No downsides other than time and you are “touching the car” so you could be adding swirls. Appearance is so hard to judge - I dont think it adds much other than psychologically - but sometimes its just nice and relaxing to do it.
When I got my Bullitt in 2019, I took it over to a well respected detailer in the area. Spent over $2k on paint correction and a high end ceramic coating. It was….ok. What surprised me, and maybe my expectations on it were wrong, but it sure didn’t seem to provide much protection against small scratches. It beaded water well and for a long time, but it seemed overly soft when challenged with scratches. Would I do it again? Likely not.
That is a lot of money for a meh result. Around me I think a full, not-ceramic detail* is in the $500 neighborhood but I am not sure, hoping the author gets back to us. Does your Bullitt have a vinyl stripe?
*edit: which is to say that the prep involved in what Tommy was talking about seems like it could easily get in the $2k range, so I better be f'ing thrilled.
Keep in mind that’s Canadian dollars, but it was also pre-Covid.
Nope. No stripe. Just Dark Highland Green. It looked spectacular when I picked it up, but it also has typically thin, shitty Ford paint. I often wondered how great that colour would have looked with an old Aston paint treatment. 15 or 20 coats, each hand rubbed and polished. Old Aston’s were shitty cars, but great ownership experiences. A 928, for instance, was a dramatically better car then its contemporary Aston V8, but while you would admire the 928 for its capabilities, the Aston is the one that would steal your heart.
I paid $550 for the Vette. Paint correction, interior, engine bay. After watching him work all morning, my back thanked me for farming it out.
Thanks for this and the info from the comments. I like my car to look nice and shiny but truly HATE detailing or waxing. The idea of spending two days polishing a car seems like some form of hell. So if a professional ceramic coat means the water will bead up for 3+ years I'm interested in the investment. I just have a lot of trouble figuring out who is qualified and how much it should cost. Any suggestions on how to figure out which shops in my area are qualified?
For amusement, here is Project Farm's test on consumer grade ceramic coatings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2lrXVV9kWU
SPOILER: The most expensive and hardest to apply won.
After a while, he sounds like Marvin The Martian.
Yeah, I like the guy's reviews, but his voice causes me some pain after awhile.
at least he can enunciate properly
some people out there really shouldnt be speaking into a microphone
or at all
Id check IGLs website for your area and see who their detailers are.
When it first hit the scene I thought “no way it’s this easy; making a car shiny is supposed to be *hard*”
Well just like what DJI drones did for aerial cinematography and Apple did for music, any idiot can be a detailing expert these days…which is why even though I trust the science(tm) I still can’t trust the sketchy kids who call themselves detailers these days.
That and trying to get any sort of coherent information online about detailing methods, equipment, and products, is like stepping in to a “what’s your favorite optical mouse” conversation at a circa-2004 LAN party.
Clearly Boomslang is the answer.
MS Intellimouse Explorer
This is timely, as the DIY ceramic coating I put on my 335i when I bought it in November 2022 is pretty much gone. I literally have something on my calendar every day between now and February so I'm not going to be able to DIY again. It's helpful to have a sense of what the pros are doing so I can understand what they're saying when I talk to them.
I wonder if the SiO2 coating is gone, or if they polymer that provides the beading and some of the shine is. Try this stuff, https://www.systemx.com/renew-ceramic-coating/ its a doesn't have much in the way of solids, but if the ceramic coating is intact it will make it like new. IIRC to maintain the warranty on some of the professional coatings for the full time period it needs this every 2 years.
Thanks! Can't tell what I'm looking at, but it's not nearly as shiny and not beading as well. This car is garaged, but not a garage queen, and does see rain once in a while.
Any tips for care of vinyl on cars? My Charger Daytona has quite a bit of vinyl as part of the graphics package and it’s not wearing particularly well. I would like to clean it up and protect it somehow, but I’m leery of creating any additional damage.
There is a product category Vinyl Rubber and Plastic (VRP) made by numerous brands, I happen to use Masterson's. Great for restoring faded plastic cladding and as a subtle tire shine. The vinyl cleaning depends on the contaminant. Always good to start with a mild all purpose cleaner if in doubt.
Id have to see it - but my ZL1 has matte factory wrap as well - I use blackfire matte detail spray
Does anyone know someone in South Florida/Boca area that could do this?
There are a few near you. Here is the website showing approved installers:
https://iglcoatingsusa.com/kenzo-approved/