A thought or two on the C4. As a tall guy, at a hair under 6’4, it actually, and surprisingly, is the only hardtop Corvette that I comfortably fit in. C3? Let’s not go there, though I own one, shared with a friend. C5? Head hit the b pillar/hoop thing. C6? Knees dug into dashboard. C7? Worst of all. Just didn’t fit in any way.
If you can scrape up enough scratch for a C4 from the final years, the ride gets better and the squeaks get less. It turns into a pretty nice back road cruiser. Though I wonder how that (flexy) chassis would have felt with tires in the 225/60 range.
Jack, I’d love to hear your thoughts on why there are so few cars that accommodate tall drivers nowadays. First and second gen CRX’s were great. I could barely reach the pedals with the seat all the way back. My W116 Benz let me put the seat all the way back against the back seat. No one could sit behind me, but I would fit! Actually, I couldn’t drive it with the seat all the way back - couldn’t operate the pedals. My daily driver ended up being a 2019 Bullitt, as it was one of the very few cars that had a manual, and decent legroom and headroom. Damn few cars that will give me that.
You don't have to be unusually tall to have problems. Even a slightly long torso makes the roof in most cars uncomfortably close. The seats don't adjust low enough.
I'm only 6' but I'm annoyed by a lack of headroom in most sedans/coupes.
I hear ya. I had a Challenger before the Bullitt, and I had to search for a very rare solid roof car, as the sunroof cut out incredible amounts of headroom. It’s beyond me how Chrysler could make a car so big on the outside so small on the inside.
Most 4 doors are unusable for me, as when I put the seat far enough back to fit, my head ends up right beside the stupidly wide, airbag equipped B pillar. Yeah, but who needs to see what’s happening beside you.
I’m no Nostradamus, but unless I was dying to have something for the last few weeks of this summer, I’d sit on my cash for 4-6 months. For one, people will be looking to unload toys before winter. For another, your guess is as good as mine as to where the economy is going but I’m guessing prices won’t be higher in 6 months than now. $10k might be $15k in the used car world.
I own an MG TD. The MGB is a substantially newer vehicle than the TD, but it's still a dinosaur compared to almost every car on the road now. You have to really want to own a vehicle like an MG in the modern era. I would not recommend an MG to someone who only has a passing interest. The newest (and worst) cars are 40 years old. The best iterations of the MGB are 50-60 years old. They are different animals: SU carbs, points based ignition, points based fuel pump, Lucas electrics, marginally effective cooling systems, marginally effective weather protection, nonexistent crash protection, rust, zerk fittings, painfully slow synchros, etc. If you can live with all of those issues and limitations, they are 100% worth it. Driving mine feels like driving through the frameless world Prisig talked about in Zen but in car form. It feels different than modern convertibles. You are substantially more exposed and connected to the road. The car requires your constant attention--listening, feeling, hearing, smelling. You have to respect and protect the car. Everything is real when you drive it.
There's an aging owner base, but it's not too hard to find people driving their cars on the weekends. The clubs are active, and it appears that there's a younger group of new owners moving in to take over for the old guys. I haven't done anything with clubs yet, but they appear to be a good, helpful community that tries to support owners. MG is also likely the last collector marque that money hasn't ruined. Only certain prewar cars are worth serious money, and there should be enough MGBs and Midgets out there to keep prices reasonable to a while. Folks seems to get into them because they have a genuine affinity for the cars, not because they are waiting to cash out. That's what the collector car hobby should be about and was for a lot more marques until the past 10 or so years.
If you can't deal with all of the issues I listed above, the NA Miata would be my next suggestion, but my guess is that all cheap good ones are almost all gone.
Failing that, I'll submit a nomination for any 3-series before the E90 generation. It's still possible to find them for under $10,000. That won't last much longer. Notably, I caught a kid taking cell phone photos of my ratty 2002 330Ci coupe a few months ago like it was a Lambo or something. They aren't as bad as "the internet" or "YouTube" make them out to be. Find a car that hasn't been destroyed cosmetically and start addressing the known problems and deferred maintenance. You'll wind up with a very pleasant, enjoyable car.
Very good description. My father had a 71 XKE OTS that given his health issues decided to part with. He offered it to me and it sat in my garage while we decided what to do with it. As you mention it really needs to be your passion to keep, otherwise it's just way too much headache. The car looks great, but man compared to anything modern it drives terribly. My eyeline is dead level with the top of the windscreen, the brakes suck, the steering is both darty and difficult to park and the transmission feels like something out of farm equipment.
Somewhat reluctantly I decided it didn't make sense for me to keep it so I helped sell it for my parents on Bring a Trailer. Of course I'm currently being sued by the fine gentleman who bought the car, but that's another story.
I would love to hear more about this. I've been a BAT lurker since the start, and have been a runner up on many auctions. However I have never tried to sell on there, using my local yearly enthusiast auctions instead. After they started back up in person after COVID the havt been getting the same number of participants as bidders, and the delta between what I would expect the BAT price we would be and the prices at these auctions is getting bigger.
In fairness asshole buyers can be found anywhere. The thing that made it worse for me is that BaT basically washes their hands of it after the auction ends, and per their policy don't relist. So if you encounter someone unreasonable your choices seem to be either try to deal with them or just eat the cost of listing. In my case I'm pretty sure I'd have been sued by the buyer to recoup the fees he paid to BaT if I tried to back out, so I'm guessing I was screwed either way.
Sure that's not their fault per se, but it certainly makes me not want to deal with them again.
I was recently contacted by someone who has what they feel to be ironclad evidence of bid manipulation at BaT. I'm trying to decide if that's a burden I'm ready to pick up and carry.
I know any individual action can just be a couple of deranged people. I once bid a yellow super cub to almost 6k can and lost, but the wife wanted it. But this has 2! almost 9k bid jumps after it was already 10k over a decent buy.
My neighbor just bought an MGB, early 60s model. When I saw it, I ran out and stopped him in the middle of the street. He was surprised I knew of it (at 39 I straddle Gen Z / X, he's mid 50s) - as most ppl he says have no idea what it is.
I think you're right; most folks have a personal attachment to these cars. Myself and my neighbor included. I grew up around my dad's electrical / construction shop, where part of the facility was rented to a car painter. The painter specialized in collectible cars. Old model Ts, MGs, Triumphs, and even the occasional exotic Italian would come through. I was always enamored with the MGs, they seemed so full of character.
My neighbor had an MGB in his youth when he was courting his wife. Sold it when starting his family but stayed connected all these years to the community through the local MGB club. A club member sold it to him (I want to say in the high teens, maybe low 20s?). My neighbor must have dropped another 10k into the thing - and he's a pretty decent home mechanic. Thing looks mint - and he drive it. All the time, it's great to see it around town.
They really are neat little cars. I'm envious of those that have the stomach for them. Honestly, I think Motorcycles are safer!
The pre-cats have a tendency to fail catastrophically too, but that is easily remedied with a new exhaust, or has likely already been addressed since the cars are all 20 years old.
I've had a 2003 for the last 17 years. Endlessly fun little go cart. Might be stretching the $10k budget these days if you want one with under 100k miles though. With 50k or less they seem to be in the $12k-$16k range. My local Toyota dealer sold one with under 10k miles last February for $22,000, but that was probably a bit of an outlier.
Only problems I've ever had with mine are an overly sensitive factory alarm sensor, a failed O2 sensor, failed sparkplugs at 50k miles, and some excessive tire wear (that's probably me). The pre-cat issue seemed to be a 2000-2002 issue that wasn't as common as the internet likes to think. Biggest issue with them these days is that nobody makes a set of tires in the stock sizes anymore. For better or worse the next set of tires are going to have to come with new wheels.
For what it's worth, it is the only vehicle I've ever been around that had a 10 year old kid yell "Cool car, Mister!" from across the parking lot.
As an early MKI MGB owner / driver / mechanic / Idiot (means I love the damned things) I'll tell you to RUN AWAY ! .
They're fun cars, dirt cheap and so easy to fix but, they're just not good high speed fun cars no matter what the guys who followed my antics on various road runs .
For me, driving slow cars quickly is the best bang for the buck .
You're wise to be skittish of Motocycles but they _are_ so much fun .
You needn't buy a big sport bike : just buy a reasonably powerful dirt bike and slap some really good street tires on it, nothing brings out th stupid in a man like a Super Motard between his knees .
Come back and let us know what you buy .
As mentioned, waiting until December and being ruthless will net you incredible deals.....
Funny enough, a sweet looking 2006 NC popped up right down the road from me. Going to look at it on Saturday. I've heard they are practically bulletproof, I'm 5'11 175 so I have no reservations about fitting in them, and obviously their reputation is at stalwart as it comes.
I am partial to Mustangs and Vettes because I am, at heart, a muscle car guy that likes loud shouty V8s and is nothing close to good enough a driver for eeking out that extra tenth to matter at all.
But then again, I've never owned something actually light and nimble. Worthwhile to check it out at least for sure!
You can get past that. Better than getting wadded up in some little two seater.
On two wheels your best defense is a good offense - stay on the gas and maintain the initiative - and have enough power left over to squirt out of harm's way. Also, I learned in Japan that I can get a bike through damn near any gap I see. If my life is in danger I have no issues putting it between two cars, onto the sidewalk or even up the middle in the slot between my lane and oncoming traffic.
No shame in that. I love riding bikes, but I've gotten a little too used to people just merging into my lane when I'm riding. Lots of ways to die a horrible death, not least of which is me just plain running out of skill.
I am a short time rider and I've had enough people pull in front of me (including from an oncoming lane) that I blame absolutely no one if they choose not to ride.
It isn't a slight risk increase: it's enormous.
I pulled a brief and low stoppie my first day riding down to work because someone decided to cross the road I was on as a semi-truck and trailer blocked his view. I saw his tires start rolling underneath and moved to the brakes. He never so much as turned his head to look in either direction as I one wheeled at his passenger door (scrubbed enough speed to go around his back end when I came off the front some). The only reason I didn't plow into this car (aside from awareness) is because I had it hammered in my head that people don't know how to slow a motorcycle so you best get good at it.
If you go the light and nimble route you can get a really cheap and reliable older econobox and have tons of money to dump into brakes, suspension, and tires with some left over for the drivetrain. And if you do a trackday it won't break your wallet if someone puts you in a wall. Frankly I am shocked Jack didn't got with his usual recommendation of the glory that is the Plymouth Neon.
FWIW I had just as much fun in my ‘97 NA8 Miata as my 2017 GT350 (and I owned them at the same time). There’s a lot to be said for the light and nimble driving experience. Check out the YouTube video of Koenigsegegsgegsgedsgegs’s test driver driving his NC on the Nurburgring . Will probably sway you to a yes. I’d highly recommend you either find one with an LSD or put an LSD in the one you find. Really improves the driving experience imo
I have Nassau Blue C4, there are definitely fun things about it. I like driving it with the targa top off even though it makes the car feel less tight. Servicing can be an issue as the dealers don’t want to or are not capable of working on them so you’d want to be in reasonable proximity of a specialist. There’s a good C4 buyer’s guide book that gives the ins and outs, things to be aware of…worth studying before shopping. I hope Jack is right about resale value!
I second the bike, but suggest you go as small as you can go and while staying sporty. I'd probably choose one of the motards, a KTM Duke, a Suzuki DRZ400 or a TW200 Yamaha modded with street tires like the Japanese kids used to do. None of these are hyperbike fast but none of them are total slouches either - although I would keep the TW on the backroads and off the freeway.
Take the money you save and buy great gear and maybe a life insurance policy.
another vote for a motorcycle because nothing else comes close to the dollar to smile ratio - though I lean the other way and suggest a sport-tourer for the comfort and the ability to quickly and easily cover long distances for a weekend or three-day ride.
I never waste an opportunity to extol the many virtues of the Honda VFR800 - fast enough, excellent handling, and all-day comfortable provided you put a good seat on it and, if you're older or not terribly long in the torso, a set of Heli-Bars. I have a fifth-gen (pre-VTEC) which I bought a couple of years after selling my 6th-gen 25th anniversary model. I prefer the fifth-gen because to my mind it leans more toward the "sport" side of the sport-touring equation and has a better engine than the VTEC in the sixth-gen, which favors the "touring" side.
Invest in all the right gear and use the money you'll save on maintaining a car to, over time, upgrade the shock and fork internals and add high-mount exhaust to provide a clear view of that glorious single-sided swingarm. :-)
The big sport tourers are wonderful bikes, but I suggested small since he is new to bikes and has said he is looking for something to use close to home. Once you start getting into 800cc plus sport tourers you are crossing a threshold for most people and I think the truth is that most newer riders really won't use those capabilities unless they already come to riding with the idea that they want to tour.
For an experienced rider looking to get out of bikes with seating positions that put your ass higher than your elbows, tourers make good sense.
excellent points; I failed to consider experience level. you are right - smaller is better for a newcomer. another reader offered some excellent suggestions in that vein as well.
Third vote for motorcycle. Live near twisty roads, just a fair weather use/fun thing? No brainer. For well under HALF the $10k budget you can get into all sorts of crazy fun stuff, although if you're a total novice, staying well under the 100hp mark and under the 500lb curb weight mark is advisable. If you're 5'10" or below, a 83-86 Honda Nighthawk CB650SC. $2000-2500 low maintenance bike that you won't "outgrow" any time soon. Others that come to mind are Suzuki GS500E, Kawasaki Ninja EX250 or EX500, Yamaha XJ600 Seca II. Kawasaki KLR650 or Suzuki DR650 are great dual sport/utility bikes and you might open up the world of gravel forest road riding that you never knew you were missing, while still being very satisfying on paved twisty stuff even (especially) on knobby tires.
+1 on the EX500. I've got a good friend who has ridden for decades and spent quite a long time racing. before leaving street bikes for dirt, he was evangelical about small Japanese motorcycles, in particular the EX500. He routinely spanked guys on more sporting machines through skill, late braking, and the ease with which he could throw the EX into corners.
I'd also suggest a Suzuki SV650 because V-twin. :-)
I can't say don't buy one.... But you better be willing to wrench on the damn thing.
Plus you have to deal with that whole "Prince of Darkness" thing.
If you agree to those conditions though, the aftermarket for parts is great and so is the ownership community. Guys are regularly letting driver-quality cars go for enough under your budget to have a good shop go through it too...
Also, a bit of housekeeping: I am logged in to SubStack and am getting 2 different “subscribe to this content” ads in this article (right before the reader quote, and at the end of the piece). I don’t much care, but my profile shows logged in and paid subscriber, not sure if it’s a glitch or a weird non-targeted ad? Running Norton Ad-Blocker for iPhone FWIW.
That's Substack's stupidity. They somehow can't figure out that a paying customer shouldn't see the SUBSCRIBE NOW! buttons. Hell, I see them and I wrote the dammed thing!
"I have 10 ideas before lunch. Eight of them are bad." What I like about Lutz is that he's never taken himself too seriously.
I believe Lutz was channeling Henry Kaiser with the above quote. Kaiser said he had 99 new ideas an hour, all but one of them bad. Of course, if you can come up with 8 good ideas in a working day, you're probably ahead of the game.
"Guts", "Car Guys vs Bean Counters" and "Icons and Idiots" will be the first required reading for my kids when they are old enough to read and understand. 1 chapter at night then they can play Halo or Minecraft for an hour.
The world/industry will be worse off when he's gone
You might be able to find a decent NA Z32 Nissan for this price-ish. I found mine local, rust free, 5 speed (but 2+2) for around 8k last fall. granted, i had to rebuild the front suspension (struts were freakin ORIGINAL and had zero fluid left) and source a new exhaust, but that all still put me right under 11k or so. runs incredible, i drive it pretty hard and still take it 400+ miles in a weekend for road trips if i feel so inclined.
When my son was a mech engr student at VT (2020) he did a senior project building and racing a car in a race at VIR in the ChampCar Endurance series. The budget was severely limited and ChampCar handicaps the results based on how capable the car is so it favors cheap builds. The team started with an old Civic, stripped it, and put all new instruments, suspension, etc but kept the original engine. They finished the 12 hour race at VIR after some minor mechanical problems and on/off-track damage which required a run to Lowes to get repair materials. My son was one of the 3 drivers and says it was the most fun he's ever had in a car. Most of the other cars were very old 3-series and Miatas. Unfortunately now ChampCars allows no spectators.
Don't doubt the pickups. I was regularly stomped by a 99 Dakota R/T back in my autocross days. Many others were too...it's not only because I was a mid-pack driver.
A thought or two on the C4. As a tall guy, at a hair under 6’4, it actually, and surprisingly, is the only hardtop Corvette that I comfortably fit in. C3? Let’s not go there, though I own one, shared with a friend. C5? Head hit the b pillar/hoop thing. C6? Knees dug into dashboard. C7? Worst of all. Just didn’t fit in any way.
If you can scrape up enough scratch for a C4 from the final years, the ride gets better and the squeaks get less. It turns into a pretty nice back road cruiser. Though I wonder how that (flexy) chassis would have felt with tires in the 225/60 range.
Jack, I’d love to hear your thoughts on why there are so few cars that accommodate tall drivers nowadays. First and second gen CRX’s were great. I could barely reach the pedals with the seat all the way back. My W116 Benz let me put the seat all the way back against the back seat. No one could sit behind me, but I would fit! Actually, I couldn’t drive it with the seat all the way back - couldn’t operate the pedals. My daily driver ended up being a 2019 Bullitt, as it was one of the very few cars that had a manual, and decent legroom and headroom. Damn few cars that will give me that.
You don't have to be unusually tall to have problems. Even a slightly long torso makes the roof in most cars uncomfortably close. The seats don't adjust low enough.
I'm only 6' but I'm annoyed by a lack of headroom in most sedans/coupes.
I hear ya. I had a Challenger before the Bullitt, and I had to search for a very rare solid roof car, as the sunroof cut out incredible amounts of headroom. It’s beyond me how Chrysler could make a car so big on the outside so small on the inside.
Most 4 doors are unusable for me, as when I put the seat far enough back to fit, my head ends up right beside the stupidly wide, airbag equipped B pillar. Yeah, but who needs to see what’s happening beside you.
I’m no Nostradamus, but unless I was dying to have something for the last few weeks of this summer, I’d sit on my cash for 4-6 months. For one, people will be looking to unload toys before winter. For another, your guess is as good as mine as to where the economy is going but I’m guessing prices won’t be higher in 6 months than now. $10k might be $15k in the used car world.
I own an MG TD. The MGB is a substantially newer vehicle than the TD, but it's still a dinosaur compared to almost every car on the road now. You have to really want to own a vehicle like an MG in the modern era. I would not recommend an MG to someone who only has a passing interest. The newest (and worst) cars are 40 years old. The best iterations of the MGB are 50-60 years old. They are different animals: SU carbs, points based ignition, points based fuel pump, Lucas electrics, marginally effective cooling systems, marginally effective weather protection, nonexistent crash protection, rust, zerk fittings, painfully slow synchros, etc. If you can live with all of those issues and limitations, they are 100% worth it. Driving mine feels like driving through the frameless world Prisig talked about in Zen but in car form. It feels different than modern convertibles. You are substantially more exposed and connected to the road. The car requires your constant attention--listening, feeling, hearing, smelling. You have to respect and protect the car. Everything is real when you drive it.
There's an aging owner base, but it's not too hard to find people driving their cars on the weekends. The clubs are active, and it appears that there's a younger group of new owners moving in to take over for the old guys. I haven't done anything with clubs yet, but they appear to be a good, helpful community that tries to support owners. MG is also likely the last collector marque that money hasn't ruined. Only certain prewar cars are worth serious money, and there should be enough MGBs and Midgets out there to keep prices reasonable to a while. Folks seems to get into them because they have a genuine affinity for the cars, not because they are waiting to cash out. That's what the collector car hobby should be about and was for a lot more marques until the past 10 or so years.
If you can't deal with all of the issues I listed above, the NA Miata would be my next suggestion, but my guess is that all cheap good ones are almost all gone.
Failing that, I'll submit a nomination for any 3-series before the E90 generation. It's still possible to find them for under $10,000. That won't last much longer. Notably, I caught a kid taking cell phone photos of my ratty 2002 330Ci coupe a few months ago like it was a Lambo or something. They aren't as bad as "the internet" or "YouTube" make them out to be. Find a car that hasn't been destroyed cosmetically and start addressing the known problems and deferred maintenance. You'll wind up with a very pleasant, enjoyable car.
Very good description. My father had a 71 XKE OTS that given his health issues decided to part with. He offered it to me and it sat in my garage while we decided what to do with it. As you mention it really needs to be your passion to keep, otherwise it's just way too much headache. The car looks great, but man compared to anything modern it drives terribly. My eyeline is dead level with the top of the windscreen, the brakes suck, the steering is both darty and difficult to park and the transmission feels like something out of farm equipment.
Somewhat reluctantly I decided it didn't make sense for me to keep it so I helped sell it for my parents on Bring a Trailer. Of course I'm currently being sued by the fine gentleman who bought the car, but that's another story.
What? A piece of shit buyer on BaT? I am Jack's TOTAL LACK OF SURPRISE!
Kick his ass, Sea bass. And if you want to tell the story when it's over...
I stupidly thought BaT would be better than dealing with Craigslist. Turns out this isn't the case.
Yeah it isn't always.
I would love to hear more about this. I've been a BAT lurker since the start, and have been a runner up on many auctions. However I have never tried to sell on there, using my local yearly enthusiast auctions instead. After they started back up in person after COVID the havt been getting the same number of participants as bidders, and the delta between what I would expect the BAT price we would be and the prices at these auctions is getting bigger.
In fairness asshole buyers can be found anywhere. The thing that made it worse for me is that BaT basically washes their hands of it after the auction ends, and per their policy don't relist. So if you encounter someone unreasonable your choices seem to be either try to deal with them or just eat the cost of listing. In my case I'm pretty sure I'd have been sued by the buyer to recoup the fees he paid to BaT if I tried to back out, so I'm guessing I was screwed either way.
Sure that's not their fault per se, but it certainly makes me not want to deal with them again.
I was recently contacted by someone who has what they feel to be ironclad evidence of bid manipulation at BaT. I'm trying to decide if that's a burden I'm ready to pick up and carry.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-land-rover-lr3-7/#comments-anchor
I know any individual action can just be a couple of deranged people. I once bid a yellow super cub to almost 6k can and lost, but the wife wanted it. But this has 2! almost 9k bid jumps after it was already 10k over a decent buy.
My neighbor just bought an MGB, early 60s model. When I saw it, I ran out and stopped him in the middle of the street. He was surprised I knew of it (at 39 I straddle Gen Z / X, he's mid 50s) - as most ppl he says have no idea what it is.
I think you're right; most folks have a personal attachment to these cars. Myself and my neighbor included. I grew up around my dad's electrical / construction shop, where part of the facility was rented to a car painter. The painter specialized in collectible cars. Old model Ts, MGs, Triumphs, and even the occasional exotic Italian would come through. I was always enamored with the MGs, they seemed so full of character.
My neighbor had an MGB in his youth when he was courting his wife. Sold it when starting his family but stayed connected all these years to the community through the local MGB club. A club member sold it to him (I want to say in the high teens, maybe low 20s?). My neighbor must have dropped another 10k into the thing - and he's a pretty decent home mechanic. Thing looks mint - and he drive it. All the time, it's great to see it around town.
They really are neat little cars. I'm envious of those that have the stomach for them. Honestly, I think Motorcycles are safer!
I just wanted to say I love everything about your description of old MGs.
Thank you!
People who ask “what xxxx should I buy” seem to already know the answer and want validation of that choice.
Jack’s opinion is worth reading, but a second, third, or fourth car does not have to be rational.
KoR should buy something that is beautiful and special to him within reason (a 6 owner 170,000 mile Maserati Quattroporte is probably off the table).
Indeed. Despite my recommendation below I think what he should really do is stretch for a cosmetically impaired but mechanically sound C5
Don't be so quick to take the Quattroporte off the table, what color is it and how does it run?......
You should still be able to get a decent MR2 Spyder for $10K.
Lighter than a Miata, as reliable as a Corolla, and the mid engine adds some novelty.
from what I've seen in Champcar racing, you'll want to upgrade the oil pump system.
The pre-cats have a tendency to fail catastrophically too, but that is easily remedied with a new exhaust, or has likely already been addressed since the cars are all 20 years old.
I've had a 2003 for the last 17 years. Endlessly fun little go cart. Might be stretching the $10k budget these days if you want one with under 100k miles though. With 50k or less they seem to be in the $12k-$16k range. My local Toyota dealer sold one with under 10k miles last February for $22,000, but that was probably a bit of an outlier.
Only problems I've ever had with mine are an overly sensitive factory alarm sensor, a failed O2 sensor, failed sparkplugs at 50k miles, and some excessive tire wear (that's probably me). The pre-cat issue seemed to be a 2000-2002 issue that wasn't as common as the internet likes to think. Biggest issue with them these days is that nobody makes a set of tires in the stock sizes anymore. For better or worse the next set of tires are going to have to come with new wheels.
For what it's worth, it is the only vehicle I've ever been around that had a 10 year old kid yell "Cool car, Mister!" from across the parking lot.
Ooh, that's a good one.
As an early MKI MGB owner / driver / mechanic / Idiot (means I love the damned things) I'll tell you to RUN AWAY ! .
They're fun cars, dirt cheap and so easy to fix but, they're just not good high speed fun cars no matter what the guys who followed my antics on various road runs .
For me, driving slow cars quickly is the best bang for the buck .
You're wise to be skittish of Motocycles but they _are_ so much fun .
You needn't buy a big sport bike : just buy a reasonably powerful dirt bike and slap some really good street tires on it, nothing brings out th stupid in a man like a Super Motard between his knees .
Come back and let us know what you buy .
As mentioned, waiting until December and being ruthless will net you incredible deals.....
-Nate
Saying no to a bike only
Funny enough, a sweet looking 2006 NC popped up right down the road from me. Going to look at it on Saturday. I've heard they are practically bulletproof, I'm 5'11 175 so I have no reservations about fitting in them, and obviously their reputation is at stalwart as it comes.
I am partial to Mustangs and Vettes because I am, at heart, a muscle car guy that likes loud shouty V8s and is nothing close to good enough a driver for eeking out that extra tenth to matter at all.
But then again, I've never owned something actually light and nimble. Worthwhile to check it out at least for sure!
Saying no to a bike only because I'm a bit too much of a coward, that is.
You can get past that. Better than getting wadded up in some little two seater.
On two wheels your best defense is a good offense - stay on the gas and maintain the initiative - and have enough power left over to squirt out of harm's way. Also, I learned in Japan that I can get a bike through damn near any gap I see. If my life is in danger I have no issues putting it between two cars, onto the sidewalk or even up the middle in the slot between my lane and oncoming traffic.
Not sure I could do that in a Miata.
No shame in that. I love riding bikes, but I've gotten a little too used to people just merging into my lane when I'm riding. Lots of ways to die a horrible death, not least of which is me just plain running out of skill.
I am a short time rider and I've had enough people pull in front of me (including from an oncoming lane) that I blame absolutely no one if they choose not to ride.
It isn't a slight risk increase: it's enormous.
I pulled a brief and low stoppie my first day riding down to work because someone decided to cross the road I was on as a semi-truck and trailer blocked his view. I saw his tires start rolling underneath and moved to the brakes. He never so much as turned his head to look in either direction as I one wheeled at his passenger door (scrubbed enough speed to go around his back end when I came off the front some). The only reason I didn't plow into this car (aside from awareness) is because I had it hammered in my head that people don't know how to slow a motorcycle so you best get good at it.
If you go the light and nimble route you can get a really cheap and reliable older econobox and have tons of money to dump into brakes, suspension, and tires with some left over for the drivetrain. And if you do a trackday it won't break your wallet if someone puts you in a wall. Frankly I am shocked Jack didn't got with his usual recommendation of the glory that is the Plymouth Neon.
he probably didn't mention the Neon because he wants to ensure he can snap up any remaining runners that come up for sale...
FWIW I had just as much fun in my ‘97 NA8 Miata as my 2017 GT350 (and I owned them at the same time). There’s a lot to be said for the light and nimble driving experience. Check out the YouTube video of Koenigsegegsgegsgedsgegs’s test driver driving his NC on the Nurburgring . Will probably sway you to a yes. I’d highly recommend you either find one with an LSD or put an LSD in the one you find. Really improves the driving experience imo
I have Nassau Blue C4, there are definitely fun things about it. I like driving it with the targa top off even though it makes the car feel less tight. Servicing can be an issue as the dealers don’t want to or are not capable of working on them so you’d want to be in reasonable proximity of a specialist. There’s a good C4 buyer’s guide book that gives the ins and outs, things to be aware of…worth studying before shopping. I hope Jack is right about resale value!
I second the bike, but suggest you go as small as you can go and while staying sporty. I'd probably choose one of the motards, a KTM Duke, a Suzuki DRZ400 or a TW200 Yamaha modded with street tires like the Japanese kids used to do. None of these are hyperbike fast but none of them are total slouches either - although I would keep the TW on the backroads and off the freeway.
Take the money you save and buy great gear and maybe a life insurance policy.
another vote for a motorcycle because nothing else comes close to the dollar to smile ratio - though I lean the other way and suggest a sport-tourer for the comfort and the ability to quickly and easily cover long distances for a weekend or three-day ride.
I never waste an opportunity to extol the many virtues of the Honda VFR800 - fast enough, excellent handling, and all-day comfortable provided you put a good seat on it and, if you're older or not terribly long in the torso, a set of Heli-Bars. I have a fifth-gen (pre-VTEC) which I bought a couple of years after selling my 6th-gen 25th anniversary model. I prefer the fifth-gen because to my mind it leans more toward the "sport" side of the sport-touring equation and has a better engine than the VTEC in the sixth-gen, which favors the "touring" side.
Invest in all the right gear and use the money you'll save on maintaining a car to, over time, upgrade the shock and fork internals and add high-mount exhaust to provide a clear view of that glorious single-sided swingarm. :-)
The big sport tourers are wonderful bikes, but I suggested small since he is new to bikes and has said he is looking for something to use close to home. Once you start getting into 800cc plus sport tourers you are crossing a threshold for most people and I think the truth is that most newer riders really won't use those capabilities unless they already come to riding with the idea that they want to tour.
For an experienced rider looking to get out of bikes with seating positions that put your ass higher than your elbows, tourers make good sense.
excellent points; I failed to consider experience level. you are right - smaller is better for a newcomer. another reader offered some excellent suggestions in that vein as well.
Third vote for motorcycle. Live near twisty roads, just a fair weather use/fun thing? No brainer. For well under HALF the $10k budget you can get into all sorts of crazy fun stuff, although if you're a total novice, staying well under the 100hp mark and under the 500lb curb weight mark is advisable. If you're 5'10" or below, a 83-86 Honda Nighthawk CB650SC. $2000-2500 low maintenance bike that you won't "outgrow" any time soon. Others that come to mind are Suzuki GS500E, Kawasaki Ninja EX250 or EX500, Yamaha XJ600 Seca II. Kawasaki KLR650 or Suzuki DR650 are great dual sport/utility bikes and you might open up the world of gravel forest road riding that you never knew you were missing, while still being very satisfying on paved twisty stuff even (especially) on knobby tires.
+1 on the EX500. I've got a good friend who has ridden for decades and spent quite a long time racing. before leaving street bikes for dirt, he was evangelical about small Japanese motorcycles, in particular the EX500. He routinely spanked guys on more sporting machines through skill, late braking, and the ease with which he could throw the EX into corners.
I'd also suggest a Suzuki SV650 because V-twin. :-)
As the resident MG owner (there may be others)
I can't say don't buy one.... But you better be willing to wrench on the damn thing.
Plus you have to deal with that whole "Prince of Darkness" thing.
If you agree to those conditions though, the aftermarket for parts is great and so is the ownership community. Guys are regularly letting driver-quality cars go for enough under your budget to have a good shop go through it too...
Also, a bit of housekeeping: I am logged in to SubStack and am getting 2 different “subscribe to this content” ads in this article (right before the reader quote, and at the end of the piece). I don’t much care, but my profile shows logged in and paid subscriber, not sure if it’s a glitch or a weird non-targeted ad? Running Norton Ad-Blocker for iPhone FWIW.
That's Substack's stupidity. They somehow can't figure out that a paying customer shouldn't see the SUBSCRIBE NOW! buttons. Hell, I see them and I wrote the dammed thing!
Faced with a similar pocket fire, I picked up a clean, high-ish miles e36 M3. Unfortunately It seems like last year’s $10k is now $15k.
I don’t think these exist anymore. Even branded title high mileage runners seem to be over 10k now.
Miata Is Always The Answer
i don't know sh*t. i just always wanted to write that.
ah, but you do know shit because Miata IS Always The Answer.
Your beginning reminds be of someone's email signature from a person we both admire - "Often wrong, Seldom in Doubt". Max Bob
"I have 10 ideas before lunch. Eight of them are bad." What I like about Lutz is that he's never taken himself too seriously.
I believe Lutz was channeling Henry Kaiser with the above quote. Kaiser said he had 99 new ideas an hour, all but one of them bad. Of course, if you can come up with 8 good ideas in a working day, you're probably ahead of the game.
"Guts", "Car Guys vs Bean Counters" and "Icons and Idiots" will be the first required reading for my kids when they are old enough to read and understand. 1 chapter at night then they can play Halo or Minecraft for an hour.
The world/industry will be worse off when he's gone
You might be able to find a decent NA Z32 Nissan for this price-ish. I found mine local, rust free, 5 speed (but 2+2) for around 8k last fall. granted, i had to rebuild the front suspension (struts were freakin ORIGINAL and had zero fluid left) and source a new exhaust, but that all still put me right under 11k or so. runs incredible, i drive it pretty hard and still take it 400+ miles in a weekend for road trips if i feel so inclined.
Josh Howard should chime in here, on this subject!
When my son was a mech engr student at VT (2020) he did a senior project building and racing a car in a race at VIR in the ChampCar Endurance series. The budget was severely limited and ChampCar handicaps the results based on how capable the car is so it favors cheap builds. The team started with an old Civic, stripped it, and put all new instruments, suspension, etc but kept the original engine. They finished the 12 hour race at VIR after some minor mechanical problems and on/off-track damage which required a run to Lowes to get repair materials. My son was one of the 3 drivers and says it was the most fun he's ever had in a car. Most of the other cars were very old 3-series and Miatas. Unfortunately now ChampCars allows no spectators.
Don't doubt the pickups. I was regularly stomped by a 99 Dakota R/T back in my autocross days. Many others were too...it's not only because I was a mid-pack driver.
I've been on track with an S-10 twice. They were keeping pace just fine.